You Can't Build a Church on Kids

[GoSteelers]

Let me start by saying, I hope God blesses your summer kids' programs. I am not against them. I believe they have limited to zilch value in growing a church.

I am not a big advocate on relying on VBS, bus ministry or AWANA to grow churches. Why? Because relying on kids to build a church just does not work. Why would it?

How can parents be creatively incorporated in these programs? Why do we focus so heavily on a demographic that cannot grow a church?

Someone needs to ask the question... Might as well be me O0

I think there is a lot wrong with this.

1) If your goal is to just grow a church your borderline pagan.  God grows a church when they follow Him, preach Jesus and minister to the least of these.

2) Children are important to God.  You get saved with Faith as a little child and Jesus said your better off drowning then hurting a child.  I'd say loving and reaching kids are God's top priority.

3) From a purely marketing stand point, parents will go to a church that is a positive force for their kids.  This is a Kid Focused generation, parents will give up their own interest for their kids.  A church with a great children's ministry will attract a lot of 30-40 somethings.  But that isn't the reason to have one.

Build a children's ministry not to build a church but because it's the right and God thing to do.

 

[FSSL]

I think there is a lot wrong with this.

1) If your goal is to just grow a church your borderline pagan.  God grows a church when they follow Him, preach Jesus and minister to the least of these.

The NT is clear that we are to build the church. We are to reach our neighbors. It is my perspective that churches are focused too much on children's ministry that they are unable to think outside the box to reach the parents and entire family.

2) Children are important to God.  You get saved with Faith as a little child and Jesus said your better off drowning then hurting a child.  I'd say loving and reaching kids are God's top priority.

The Bible does not place it in top priority. In fact, James says true religion is to reach the widows and orphans. Do you have a widow's ministry or an orphanage?

3) From a purely marketing stand point, parents will go to a church that is a positive force for their kids.  This is a Kid Focused generation, parents will give up their own interest for their kids.  A church with a great children's ministry will attract a lot of 30-40 somethings.  But that isn't the reason to have one.

Are you arguing with yourself?

Build a children's ministry not to build a church but because it's the right and God thing to do.

I made it clear in the OP, that I am not against children's ministries. I am challenging people to think about ways to reach the parents using those programs.

So... to get back on track AGAIN, why don't you give us a solution instead of rehashing the diversions?

 

[GoSteelers]

Your not too smart.

If you reach children and build a strong children's ministry adults will follow.  Parents will attend a church that is reaching their kids. 

As far as James goes it backs up what I just said...make kids and senior citizens a priority.  Read.

I said from a marketing stand point I did say this is why you should do it...not to bright.

Jesus said bring kids to me and he rebuked those keeping them from Him.  Want to build a church? Reach kids.  Any pastor not personally involved in reaching kids isn't a good pastor.

Kids for the sake of numbers is wrong.
Reaching kids for Jesus is when God Blesses.

And by the way JESUS builds a church.

 

[FSSL]

Your not too smart.

Since you did not understand the OP.
Since you still have not answered the question as to how to use those programs to reach the entire family,
You have yet to demonstrate that you know what the word "smart" actually means.

 

[Izdaari]

Just IMHO:

GoSteelers made some good points.
FSSL made some good counter-points.
Both were thoughtful, valuable posts, neither one dumb.

Now kiss and make up, boys!  :-*

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=GoSteelers]Any pastor not personally involved in reaching kids isn't a good pastor.[/quote]

Would you like a wider brush next time?

 

[FSSL]

Just IMHO:

GoSteelers made some points.
FSSL made some awesome, and excellent counter-points.
Both were thoughtful, but FSSL obviously won.

Now kiss and make up, boys!  :-*

But he started it, mom!!!

 

[ALAYMAN]

I used to think I was called to teach/preach, like I'm supposed to be doing tonight and tomorrow at VBS...

Too bad those kids will not receive preaching and teaching that has been well prepared.

lol, grow up lil buddy.

 

[christundivided]

Your not too smart.

If you reach children and build a strong children's ministry adults will follow.  Parents will attend a church that is reaching their kids. 

As far as James goes it backs up what I just said...make kids and senior citizens a priority.  Read.

I said from a marketing stand point I did say this is why you should do it...not to bright.

Jesus said bring kids to me and he rebuked those keeping them from Him.  Want to build a church? Reach kids.  Any pastor not personally involved in reaching kids isn't a good pastor.

Kids for the sake of numbers is wrong.
Reaching kids for Jesus is when God Blesses.

And by the way JESUS builds a church.

I believe this a prime example what's wrong with such attitudes concerning reaching others for Christ.

1.  you're greatly abusing Luke 18 16:17. Everyone comes to Christ as a "infant". It has nothing to do with the actual physical age of the individual coming to Christ.

2. Parents brought the infants. Its apparent that the parents of such infants were interested in their children getting a blessing from Christ. In MANY kids programs, there is little concern for reaching parents. In Luke 18 16:17 its was the parents that made the difference. No one was taking a bus and driving through the surrounding neighborhoods and collecting "infants" for Christ to bless.

3. Question. Give me one biblical example of the apostles targeting kids for evangelism? Just one.

I've been with "youth" "evangelists" that purposely look to separate children from theirs parents so they "win them" to Christ. I have never done such. Its shameful and repulsive. In reality, many just want to get another "notch" on their soul-winner's belts.

 

[BandGuy]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell? 

 

[rsc2a]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell?

I didn't know the eternal fate of others was up to us to decide. 

 

[FSSL]

Yes, CU, but before we even touch on salvation, could you please clarify and answer this question... Because you want the parents involved, are you advocating infanticide?

 

[BandGuy]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell?

I didn't know the eternal fate of others was up to us to decide. 

So, it is not up to us to share the Gospel with everyone?  Only those kids whose parents are kind enough to bring them to Church?  Please do answer the question.

 

[FSSL]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell?

I didn't know the eternal fate of others was up to us to decide. 

So, it is not up to us to share the Gospel with everyone?  Only those kids whose parents are kind enough to bring them to Church?  Please do answer the question.

Why don't you answer the question posed in the OP? Or, are you here to simply derail the thread with an absurd question?

 

[rsc2a]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell?

I didn't know the eternal fate of others was up to us to decide. 

So, it is not up to us to share the Gospel with everyone?  Only those kids whose parents are kind enough to bring them to Church?  Please do answer the question.

I think you're making salvation a lot more dependent on what you do than on what God does.

 

[BandGuy]

I think you are catching on to a mis-statement in how I chose my words.  I believe that God is sovereign in salvation.  I also believe that He has called us to be His witnesses, even to children, and that we should not discriminate who we reach out to based on whether or not their parents were kind enough to bring them to Church or not.  Otherwise, we become no better than a hyper-calvinist who basically says that if God wants them to be saved, their parents will bring them.  The opposite is true.  God has sent us to the children who are victims of being born to crack heads who would never grace the inside walls of a Church, but will gladly put them on a bus to get them out of their hair long enough to give them time to smoke another joint.

 

[FSSL]

Since NO ONE is arguing against reaching kids with the gospel and...
Since the OP is about reaching the entire family with the gospel...

Can you stick with the OP and answer the question? Otherwise you are just being obnoxiously rude.

 

[BandGuy]

You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

How sweet it is.

 

[christundivided]

CU,

Please clarify.  Are you arvuing that if the parents won't come to Church and bring their kids, that we should just let them go to Hell?

NO.

Are you arguing that you can save someone from hell by targeting their children for evangelism?

 

[BandGuy]

No. I am arguing that you can bring children to Church whose parents will not come and expose them to the Gospel.  Are you arguing that this is a bad thing?  When I see people arguing that we should not target children for the Gospel because we are not getting the parents there also, then I have to wonder if you have to have their parents there to give a crap about the kids.