You Can't Build a Church on Kids

[cave_dweller]

He said, "You are children and upon VBS I will build my church."

I haven't really been reading this thread, but what is your opinion on children in the church? What should the church offer?

 

[FSSL]

He said, "You are children and upon VBS I will build my church."

I haven't really been reading this thread, but what is your opinion on children in the church? What should the church offer?

Read my very first post. I am not against VBS. I am not against reaching children.
I think it is misplaced to use VBS as a tool for church growth.
Aim for the parents.
That is all I intend.

 

[cave_dweller]

He said, "You are children and upon VBS I will build my church."

I haven't really been reading this thread, but what is your opinion on children in the church? What should the church offer?

Read my very first post. I am not against VBS. I am not against reaching children.
I think it is misplaced to use VBS as a tool for church growth.
Aim for the parents.
That is all I intend.

I think that is an obvious tatic. However, sometimes the only way to the parents is to reach the kid. We need to always be striving to instill Godly principles in this next generation.

 

[JrChurch]

Aim for the parents.
That is all I intend.

Aim for the heart, whether it be child or parent. 

Romans 6:17  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

2 Timothy 3:15  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Mark 10:13-16 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

 

[prophet]

He said, "You are children and upon VBS I will build my church."

I haven't really been reading this thread, but what is your opinion on children in the church? What should the church offer?

Read my very first post. I am not against VBS. I am not against reaching children.
I think it is misplaced to use VBS as a tool for church growth.
Aim for the parents.
That is all I intend.

I think that is an obvious tatic. However, sometimes the only way to the parents is to reach the kid. We need to always be striving to instill Godly principles in this next generation.

In this day and age, if you still 'reach the parent through the kid', you are ignoring cultural trends.  Turn it around.  Would you let your kids go to a vbs, at a strange church, w/o you?  I wouldn't!  Reach Dad, and the house will follow. Reach kids, and you'll lose them in their teens. 
Once in awhile, God will bring kids to you, that you don't turn away.  But you don't target them, unless you're a weirdo, or somehow lacking boldness.

Anishinabe

 

[Sherryh]

When we moved to Rochester Hills, Michigan we had 2 guys visit our house and invite the kids to ride the church bus to church. We were looking for a church and they came to us that one visit changed our lives forever. We started riding on the bus and my mom became faithful in church. I'm so thankful that someone knocked on our door...........

 

[JustABigKid]

Let me start by saying, I hope God blesses your summer kids' programs. I am not against them. I believe they have limited to zilch value in growing a church.

I am not a big advocate on relying on VBS, bus ministry or AWANA to grow churches. Why? Because relying on kids to build a church just does not work. Why would it?

How can parents be creatively incorporated in these programs? Why do we focus so heavily on a demographic that cannot grow a church?

Someone needs to ask the question... Might as well be me O0

I believe there has to be a good balance for both. These ministries can be used in some cases because the kids come in get saved which then gives another person the open door to witness to the parents and get them into church.

Also this demographic while at this time in their life are not necessarily ones that can financial support the church if we win them as kids and continue to teach and grow them through their teens years Lord willing once they become adults they will continue in church thus your church has grown.

How a parent can be incorporated in this. You can have contest for the kids to bring their parents to church so they have the opportunity to hear the gospel. If their parents already attend they can be used as workers in the different settings which allows them to gain spiritual growth.

We have had special days where we invite the parents to come with the kids and then feed them a meal afterwards. It is all in an attempt to share the gospel with them.

There are some adults out there that will not give you the time of day but if you make a difference in their child's life they will then listen to you.

 

[kaba]

A wise evangelist once said, It is easier to reach boys and girls than to repair men and women.

There is a balance, I think sometimes people over think too much! If you are just serving the Lord and making available his Gospel, your church will grow.

My daughter is going to Boston this summer to work in a church summer camp. It is designed to meet a need for parents. She just inherited many years of Good News Bible Club material!! She is anxious to use it.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I see the point in the OP, which is why our church has never had a bus ministry per se.
BUT, children's ministry has been a tool for church growth in our ministry for 30 years and counting.

We have a huge VBS (700 +) and always gain families to our church because their kids came to VBS....most of them are lost when they begin to attend our services.

We also have a sports ministry....we sponsor Baseball and Soccer teams in the city rec. league and always gain families who's children are assigned to one of our teams. The same goes for our Upward basketball league.

The goal is to reach the parents...the family...but often he front door of opportunity is their children or teenager.

 

[sword]

I think I am missing something here regarding the original OP. I have never heard a pastor say the purpose of his VBS or other kid’s ministries was to reach adults or to build his church. All over the country churches see many young people saved and many more are taught biblical principles. Many young people hear the gospel who might never hear otherwise. That is an end in its self. The purpose is to save young souls from Hell not grow a church.

Using the logic from the original post, churches should not have an outreach or go soul winning to poorer areas since many or those folks may not have the ability to tithe and may not even have transportation. They make poor church growth prospects. Nursing home would be out as well. Though these folks may soon face eternity they are unlikely to ever attend your church so they should not be a priority. This church growth concept would rule out jail and prison ministries as well.

Those who live beyond driving distance of your church would not make good soul winning prospects as well, since they would not meet your church growth objectives.
Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Who ever said church growth was the primary objective. I believe It is a noble goal but seeing people saved and changing lives should never be over shadowed by a Pastors desire to grow his church.

When I travel I always find a good church in the area to refer converts to. My goal is to see people in a good church, not necessarily mine. If we use church growth alone as our measure of success many will die and go to Hell because we failed to reach out to them.

 

[Sherryh]

A wise evangelist once said, It is easier to reach boys and girls than to repair men and women.

There is a balance, I think sometimes people over think too much! If you are just serving the Lord and making available his Gospel, your church will grow.

My daughter is going to Boston this summer to work in a church summer camp. It is designed to meet a need for parents. She just inherited many years of Good News Bible Club material!! She is anxious to use it.

Was that Mrs Davidson's ? I'll be praying for her......Boston is very reachable right now...........

 

[kaba]

Yes! She gave K all her flannelgraph stuff, plus the board!!! Maybe your hubby will have K do a story when she gets back!!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I think I am missing something here regarding the original OP. I have never heard a pastor say the purpose of his VBS or other kid’s ministries was to reach adults or to build his church. All over the country churches see many young people saved and many more are taught biblical principles. Many young people hear the gospel who might never hear otherwise. That is an end in its self. The purpose is to save young souls from Hell not grow a church.

Using the logic from the original post, churches should not have an outreach or go soul winning to poorer areas since many or those folks may not have the ability to tithe and may not even have transportation. They make poor church growth prospects. Nursing home would be out as well. Though these folks may soon face eternity they are unlikely to ever attend your church so they should not be a priority. This church growth concept would rule out jail and prison ministries as well.

Those who live beyond driving distance of your church would not make good soul winning prospects as well, since they would not meet your church growth objectives.
Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Who ever said church growth was the primary objective. I believe It is a noble goal but seeing people saved and changing lives should never be over shadowed by a Pastors desire to grow his church.

When I travel I always find a good church in the area to refer converts to. My goal is to see people in a good church, not necessarily mine. If we use church growth alone as our measure of success many will die and go to Hell because we failed to reach out to them.

Agree (mostly) 
In the summer, we have done children's outreach in some of our local housing projects....we partner with a black congregation in the area. We offer resources and additional manpower, but encourage attendance at that church.

 

[sword]

FSSL

You asked the question "So, tell us, specifically, how you incorporated parents into your VBS and AWANA programs".

Regarding VBS, the most effective model I have seen is minister to the kids all week long. See as many saved as possible and plant the seed in the others. Teach the children biblical principals and influence them for good. On the last day have some type of program or awards presentation and invite Mom & Dad to come. The during the program review all that the kids were taught and include a clear plan of salvation.

Be sure to visit every home that had a child in your VBS, they make good soul winning prospects. Visit every home even if they adults did not come on the final night. In many cases their may not be a father in the home but that should never exclude that home from our love and concern. Reach out to every family regardless of their background or demographic.

The bus ministry works much the same way. Reach the children, show Gods love to the home and God will open the door to reach Mom & Dad. We have some bus kids that come from homes we will likely never reach, but that does not keep us from reaching out to them. We have many adults serving in our church who were reached as children through the bus ministry. In some cases we have second & third generation members who’s grand parents were reached. Members who are reached through church outreach make wonderful future soul winners and workers.

Selecting who you minister to based on their tithing ability and their church growth potential seems contrary to everything Christ taught.

IS CHURCH GROWTH OUR ULTIMATE GOAL OR IS IT REACHING THE LOST FOR CHRIST?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=sword]Be sure to visit every home that had a child in your VBS, they make good soul winning prospects.[/quote]

*twitch*

 

[FSSL]

You asked the question "So, tell us, specifically, how you incorporated parents into your VBS and AWANA programs".

We tried the end of the week program. Didn't work.
I've done the follow-up visit. Didn't work.
I asked the question because it didn't work.

Selecting who you minister to based on their tithing ability and their church growth potential seems contrary to everything Christ taught.

You are selecting to minister to kids in order to get into their homes. While I am not against kid's programs, there is nothing in Scripture that advocates that approach.

The examples we have in Scripture are the apostles reaching families through adults. (e.g.,Philippian jailer). Do you see examples of the apostles reaching out to children?

IS CHURCH GROWTH OUR ULTIMATE GOAL OR IS IT REACHING THE LOST FOR CHRIST?

Since the church cannot grow without reaching the lost (unless it depends on sheep relocating), you are arguing for a distinction without much of a difference.

Again, I am not against children's programs. My perspective is to put primary emphasis on developing opportunities to reach adults.

 

[sword]

I recall the apostles did not have time for the children either. Perhaps they were not good church building prospects for them as well. I recall in the following verses Jesus scolded them for this very thing.

Matthew 19:14 |
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:14 |
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:16 |
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

I suspect we agree that balance is important. A large bus ministry without stable members to manage & support it would be unwise. A VBS that expends a large portion of the churches out reach budget would also be unwise. BALANCE in any church is the key.

I am just concerned with using “church growth potential” as the litmus test for outreach ministries. By doing so it would eliminate many very productive and important ministries.

Numbers were important in the new testament church but I don’t see the apostles using size as the measure of a good church. 

 

[Frag]

AS to the OP:

Four weeks ago we started a new bus route.  Last Sunday we had 41 on the bus, including 4 adults.  We also had two families drive in from the new area who learned about the church by bus workers who were out canvasing. 

Bus ministry, and other "children" ministries have regularly produced families into our church.  They do so through sincere, prayer-saturated follow-up visitation.  We also have married our young adult class to our bus ministry.  Our young adults follow up on new bus riders, meet their parents (who are....think....young adults), build relationships with then and get them to our young adult class. 

Stop being a "kid hater".    8)

 

[kaba]

FRAG, it sounds like you are getting everyone involved. And is well balanced. I have always felt it was import to reach children. We have a wonderful VBS at our church in the summer, we have many church members that help. All our teens have a part as well. John Mark actually does the singing. We might be one of the few churches that don't charge for VBS!!

 

[rsc2a]

FRAG, it sounds like you are getting everyone involved. And is well balanced. I have always felt it was import to reach children. We have a wonderful VBS at our church in the summer, we have many church members that help. All our teens have a part as well. John Mark actually does the singing. We might be one of the few churches that don't charge for VBS!!

Churches actually charge for VBS? I've never heard of such a thing.