You Can't Build a Church on Kids

[FSSL]

.....Are you referring to the number of butts in a pew.

Aim for more adults than kids.


.... the amount of money in the plate,

Definitely. Don't let a kids ministry choke out your ability to reach adults.


.... or the number of kids who are reached with the Gospel?

I am glad some are being reached through those ministries, But why target that demographic more than the adult demographic?

 

[BandGuy]

You're nothing but an idiot troll.  I wish I would have seen this before.  I am finished with this conversation.

 

[FSSL]

Typical fundy reaction.

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Let me start by saying, I hope God blesses your summer kids' programs. I am not against them. I believe they have limited to zilch value in growing a church.

I am not a big advocate on relying on VBS, bus ministry or AWANA to grow churches. Why? Because relying on kids to build a church just does not work. Why would it?

How can parents be creatively incorporated in these programs? Why do we focus so heavily on a demographic that cannot grow a church?

Someone needs to ask the question... Might as well be me O0

Why don't you throw missions in there?  That doesn't build the local church either, nor bring in any money, but sends out plenty in our church.  I am being facetious.  The purpose of trying to reach kids should be apparent.  They are the future of the church.  Our church has VBS, WOL, summer camps, daycare, and a Christian School.  We also support plenty of missionaries.  We have just paid for the land for a bigger church and are in the process of talking to architects, etc.  All these programs have led to people getting saved, and the church has grown.  Some of these young men from the Christian school are going out into ministry themselves.  My son is one of them. I don't get your disdain for programs which you always try to linke with Fundies, as you say.  There is no soul that is not worth going after.  Period.  Besides, how about telling me about all these adult programs that build the church.  What do you do, have happy hour before services?  JK  Thought I would thrown that in.  It seems to me in a lot of churches that the kids are forgotten and the churches are dying.  Any soul saved helps build the church, the body of Christ, whether kid, teen or adult.  I have never seen programs for kids a problem, but the lack of them has caused many a family to come to our church because of our programs.  Go figure, huh?

 

[FSSL]

I don't understand why asking how to get the parents involved has led to the scoffs on this thread. Perhaps none of the above have ever been involved in church planting.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I don't understand why asking how to get the parents involved has led to the scoffs on this thread. Perhaps none of the above have ever been involved in church planting.

Your condescension and smugness may have something to do with it, as well as the coyness which pours from your keyboard.  The parents are reached, or at least attempted to reach, by involving yourself in their lives in more ways than just picking their kids up to babysit them.  For VBS you have a culminating program that the parents receive invitation to, where they will see their little darlings involved in the VBS activities/minstry, and they will hear the gospel.  You visit with the children regularly in their homes, where you attempt to reach the parents too.  Call it "lifestyle evangelism" if you want to have the warm fuzzies about it.

 

[FSSL]

Having been involved in church.planting for a decade, I have yet to see a children's program be the key to growth.

Why use VBS as a way into the home? How can we directly get to the parents?

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

Having been involved in church.planting for a decade, I have yet to see a children's program be the key to growth.

Why use VBS as a way into the home? How can we directly get to the parents?

Ok, I didn't know the OP was talking about church planting, as that is a different animal.  No one is saying that youth ministry is the key to building a church that has been planted, but you had better not forget the youth our your church will die, imo.

VBS isn't neccessarily used as a way into the home, although there is nothing wrong with that, but as a way to reach children. As long as you are ministering to the children, the door is still open to their parents.  I am still waiting to hear all your ideas, and you should have plenty having been involved with church planting for 10 years, about how to get into the home and get adults.  Of course there is old fashioned visitation, but I think I heard you downing that on another thread on the old site, correct me if I am wrong.  I am not saying that you don't value children, but you are coming off that way.  Adults in Jesus' day didn't value them either, and would have sent them and their mothers away if Jesus had not rebuked them.  We have adult members in our church that got saved at WOL, VBS, church camp, and the Christian school that are active, working members.  If that doesn't help church growth, then I am not sure what you are talking about.

 

[rsc2a]

Why use VBS as a way into the home? How can we directly get to the parents?

By being good/compassionate/loving neighbors, employees, PTA members, baseball coaches, community leaders...

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I don't understand why asking how to get the parents involved has led to the scoffs on this thread. Perhaps none of the above have ever been involved in church planting.

I serve on the board of a church planting organization, and have for a number of years.
Children and Youth ministries are and always have been valuable assets to any church ministry....and, of done properly, are vehicles for church growth!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Why use VBS as a way into the home? How can we directly get to the parents?

By being good/compassionate/loving neighbors, employees, PTA members, baseball coaches, community leaders...

That sounds like the criteria one of our Deacons had when he was recently promoted to VP of his bank.....they demand their officers be involved just as you describe.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's hardly a formula for church growth.

 

[christundivided]

All such programs are nothing more than the carnal mind trying to find acceptance in presenting the Gospel.

There have been and never will be any biblical precedents for such programs in the "church". Just my honest opinion. However, its not any worse than to have a tithing campaign, a "fellowship" banquet or "church covenant"hanging on the wall so everyone can get along properly.

Most of these activities are not done to truly win people for "Christ". They are and have always been a means to gauge the success of a someone's suppose "ministry". The Gospel isn't about "numbers". Its always been about the "Truth". The plain unadulterated "Truth". As such, there is no greater method to win any person to the truth more than presenting the Gospel without any distractions/fluff.

Such programs are nothing but fluff. Extra-biblical and grounded on sinking sands.

 

[rsc2a]

Why use VBS as a way into the home? How can we directly get to the parents?

By being good/compassionate/loving neighbors, employees, PTA members, baseball coaches, community leaders...

That sounds like the criteria one of our Deacons had when he was recently promoted to VP of his bank.....they demand their officers be involved just as you describe.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's hardly a formula for church growth.

Seemed to work for at least the first couple hundred years of Christianity. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Most of these activities are not done to truly win people for "Christ". They are and have always been a means to gauge the success of a someone's suppose "ministry". The Gospel isn't about "numbers". Its always been about the "Truth". The plain unadulterated "Truth". As such, there is no greater method to win any person to the truth more than presenting the Gospel without any distractions/fluff. [/quote]

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3 ESV)

Seems like you forgot the most important part.  :-\

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Programs, whether they be children's programs or food distribution ministries are, to a Bible centered church, simply methods to show the love of Christ, reach the lost and disciple the saved.

 

[ALAYMAN]

All such programs are nothing more than the carnal mind trying to find acceptance in presenting the Gospel.

Paul became all things to all people in order that he might win some, and he rejoiced wherever the gospel was preached (even by those attempting to stir up strife), so what is THE acceptable manner of presenting the gospel according to christunited?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

All such programs are nothing more than the carnal mind trying to find acceptance in presenting the Gospel.

Paul became all things to all people in order that he might win some, and he rejoiced wherever the gospel was preached (even by those attempting to stir up strife), so what is THE acceptable manner of presenting the gospel according to christunited?

It certainly more than coach little league, serve on the steering Cmtee for United Way and serve beans once a month at community kitchen......

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]
It certainly more than coach little league, serve on the steering Cmtee for United Way and serve beans once a month at community kitchen......
[/quote]

We are the world, we are the children, we are the ones who make a brighter day so let's start giving.....

 

[christundivided]

All such programs are nothing more than the carnal mind trying to find acceptance in presenting the Gospel.

Paul became all things to all people in order that he might win some, and he rejoiced wherever the gospel was preached (even by those attempting to stir up strife), so what is THE acceptable manner of presenting the gospel according to christunited?

Paul didn't run a VBS program or a AWANA club. You're taking Paul's statements to an extreme.

Yes, Paul rejoice even when someone caused strife at his own expense. BUT HE, HIMSELF, did not use such methods.

You should realize rejoicing about anything that results to the "Glory of God" is different that taking an "anything is good as along as it works" approach.

I don't personally care how a person presents the Gospel. I am glad that it gets presented, but don't pretend their is biblical precedent for what is going on today. Nor should you choose to to change you approach because you've seen the supposed "success" associated with a certain "program".

 

[christundivided]

All such programs are nothing more than the carnal mind trying to find acceptance in presenting the Gospel.

Paul became all things to all people in order that he might win some, and he rejoiced wherever the gospel was preached (even by those attempting to stir up strife), so what is THE acceptable manner of presenting the gospel according to christunited?

It certainly more than coach little league, serve on the steering Cmtee for United Way and serve beans once a month at community kitchen......

Then by all means become a freebird to win a freebird?

That's what I thought!!!!!!

It only works right if you thought of the program yourself or have a friend that has found "success"....