BandGuy said:
Then start your own thread... no one is arguing against bringing children to church. You are unable to answer the OP question as to "How do we get the parents involved?"
You Can't Build a Church on Kids
- Thread starter FSSL
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Then start your own thread... no one is arguing against bringing children to church. You are unable to answer the OP question as to "How do we get the parents involved?"
BandGuy said:
Ignorant mode is always sweet to the ignorant.
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I think the problem is that FSSSSSSSSL just doesnt know how to communicate what he means.....
I wouldn't go on record claiming that the OP is that difficult to understand.
Isn't the assumption that you need a chidren's program to reach parents putting the cart before the horse?
I do believe we need to offer graded levels of instruction in the church. I also firmly believe that if the parents receive excellent teaching/preaching, the church will properly grow.
Does your church depend on the excellence of its teaching or the glitzy VBS?
I do believe we need to offer graded levels of instruction in the church. I also firmly believe that if the parents receive excellent teaching/preaching, the church will properly grow.
Does your church depend on the excellence of its teaching or the glitzy VBS?
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OZZY said:
Which leads me to ask how he has done what he asks in the OP or if he is merely spit balling from an ivory tower.
Tarheel Baptist said:
Which leads me to ask why any Calvinist would agree with OZZY. God uses the clear preaching/teaching to grow His church-parents and kids.
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FSSL said:
You don't understand why a Calvinist or Biblicist would agree with "our church depends on GOD, not man"?!
I dont understand why you both are divorcing preaching/teaching from God's purposes. Then again, there is very little on this thread that shows critical thinking.
Assumptions and traditions are pernicious.
Assumptions and traditions are pernicious.
FSSL said:
I'm not really a Calvinist, though I can sometimes come close to being Amyraldian. And I rarely agree with our OZZY, though I agree with Ozzy Osbourne on music.
http://youtu.be/LMLwslRNThM
Izdaari said:
To keep with the OP... It appears that some are trying to grow their church, not with bouncy houses, but with OZZY.
Sympathy For The Devil
Nice cover, with some original touches, of a Rolling Stones classic! 8)
But I have to vote for the Stones version. They still do it better!
http://youtu.be/iLddJ1WceHQ
But I have to vote for the Stones version. They still do it better!
http://youtu.be/iLddJ1WceHQ
T
Torrent v.3
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FSSL said:
I was in a church for 4 years out East that had aa childdren's revival, AWANA, VBS and Bible clubs every summer. While it got all the regulars even more busy than ever, and probably gave them a sense that they were really serving the Lord, it was just busy work. I never saw one family reached in 4 years. Maybe one or two kids, and that is maybe. My kids told me later in life that those summers were horrendous with all the crazy running around.
Torrent v.3 said:
Wow! That was a bump from the past!
I still agree.
T
Torrent v.3
Guest
FSSL said:Torrent v.3 said:
Wow! That was a bump from the past!
I still agree.
I like to look at the forum and sort the posts by number of replies, which indicates that this is a good thread, and then read it for really good posts and reply to them. There is a lot of good posted in these threads.
What was the point of the original OP. I have never heard a pastor say the purpose of his VBS was to grow his church. The purpose of VBS is to see young people saved and influenced for Christ. I get the impression the originator of this post thinks growing his church is the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal should be to see people saved. It should also be to see people grow in the Lord.
Jesus went around seeing people saved and doing good. His ultimate goal was not to see how many tithing adults he could see saved but how many Souls he could save from Hell. To all the young people who get saved each year in VBS's around the country I would guess the effort is worth it. They own their eternity to VBS.
Using your logic I would assume we should avoid soul winning in the poorer parts of the inter city since they have no money and often limited transportation. Should we avoid the nursing homes as well since they are unable to attend each week. How about those who live too far to join your church, scratch them from our soul winning map. I don't understand the logic and the contempt in the original question. Most children's ministries are intended to benefit the children not to grow the church.
The ultimate goal is to save people from hell, not build a church.
Jesus went around seeing people saved and doing good. His ultimate goal was not to see how many tithing adults he could see saved but how many Souls he could save from Hell. To all the young people who get saved each year in VBS's around the country I would guess the effort is worth it. They own their eternity to VBS.
Using your logic I would assume we should avoid soul winning in the poorer parts of the inter city since they have no money and often limited transportation. Should we avoid the nursing homes as well since they are unable to attend each week. How about those who live too far to join your church, scratch them from our soul winning map. I don't understand the logic and the contempt in the original question. Most children's ministries are intended to benefit the children not to grow the church.
The ultimate goal is to save people from hell, not build a church.
If you expect kids to grow your church (and every VBS program DOES expect that), you are not going to build a sustainable church to help other projects that require resources.
Are kids going to help run your nursing home ministry and fund ministries the poor?
Are kids going to help run your nursing home ministry and fund ministries the poor?
C
cave_dweller
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FSSL said:
What did Jesus say about the children?
He said, "You are children and upon VBS I will build my church."