The King James Code

[rsc2a]

Also being a bit selective in the omni-s. I could come up with quite a few more than -potent, -scient, and -present without any effort at all. I could even stop at 6, the number of eeeeebbbiiiilll.

 

[Biblebeliever]

and why is the number 555 so special?....... you can;t divide it evenly by 7.... you can only divide it by 1, 3 and 5.... and you can;t even add up any combination of those 3 numbers to make 7..... .. but you can add 2 of those numbers up to make 6 which biblical numerology proponents claim is the number for evil..... but then of course if you subtract one of those numbers from 5 and then add the other you come up with 7..... is that what they say makes it so special?.......... i really don;t get this......  i;ve looked at all the numbers they claim add up to a code and every one of them can be contributed to either chance.. naturally occurring coincidence... or manipulation of spelling and interchangeable words to make it look like a code.......

Aleshanee,

5 is the number of Grace. God's goodness and His redemption.

The Number 5 therefore serves a very important purpose in the Holy Scriptures, just as the other numbers do.

In Isaiah 9:6, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is given 5 titles:


6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)



And what makes the number 555 very unique and special in the Holy Scriptures is the very fact that the word "Christ" appears 555 times in the Authorized King James Version.

 

[Biblebeliever]

We have here a KJVO whobclaims that the KJV is the exclusive Word of God and he cannot find anything in the KJV which promotes numerology. He is now advocating that we place man's reasonings upon the KJV.

This pretty much illustrates what a myth can do to the mind.

Scriptural Numerics is clearly in the Bible. I just gave a clear example of that in the book of Revelation.

Especially in Revelation 13:8, where one with understanding is exhorted to count the number of the beast, which is connected directly with Bible Prophecy:


18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:8 (King James Bible)


The different Numbers and their meaning in the Scriptures can clearly be seen when studying the Holy Bible.

There is no getting around that. If you have trouble believing it, then simply ask the Holy Ghost in prayer to show and confirm this to you in the Scriptures.

And I encourage you also to read one of those books mentioned, and see if the information contained in them lines up with the Scriptures.

And yes, the Authorized King James Holy Bible is the perfect, inerrant and infallible word of God. The King James Bible came from the right Greek texts and right Hebrew text.

The modern versions; just about all of them from 1881 came directly from another Greek text. The modern versions came from mainly the Westcott and Hot Greek text which is based heavily upon the corrupt Siniaticus and Vaticanus manuscripts. That's why the modern versions are simply Vatican bibles.

 

[Biblebeliever]

I repeat:

The word "Satan" occurs 49 times in the KJV.

The word "evil" occurs 707 times in the KJV. 

The word "adultery" occurs 33 times in the KJV. 

The word "sin" occurs 1218 times in the KJV (7x174)

The word "antichrist" occurs 4 times and "antichrists" 1 time, which adds up to 5, the number of grace.

In contrast, the word "righteousness" only occurs 307 times...not divisible by 7.

The word "godly" occurs 39 times.  Not divisible by 7.

The word "christ" (not "christ's" or "christs") occurs 538 times.  Not divisible by 7.

Obviously, based on numerology, the KJV is an evil translation.

"Satan" occurs 55 times in the Authorized Version

"evil" occurs 613 times in the Scriptures

"adultery" occurs 40 times in the King James Bible

"sin" occurs 447 times in the Authorized Version

"righteousness" occurs 298 times in the King James Bible

"Righeousness" occurs 3 times in the word of God

"godly" occurs 15 times

"Christ" appears 555 times


The KJV is a beautiful and perfect translation.


Be very careful of how you treat God's perfect and holy word.

 

[PappaBear]

Now I understand that the main concern here is whether or not the Numeric codes are Scriptural.

BB, I appreciate your gentlemanly spirit.  But without scriptural precedent, I am forced to reject such claims.  Yes, there is the truth of Biblical numerology.  I became acquainted with that many years ago when my pastor and father in the ministry gave me a book, "Knowing the Scriptures" by A.T. Pierson that had a whole chapter on the subject.  The trinity 3, 5 for grace, man's number of 6, and the perfect or completeness of 7 is significantly DEMONSTRATED IN SCRIPTURE.  But in a plenary inspired Bible, there is NO EXAMPLE of a numeric code underlying the scriptural text.  Ruckman and his followers' claims to the contrary is similar, in my mind, of other's use of astrology to attempt to forecast the future.  A true King James Bible believer who believes our God put the Bible together and it is plenary inspired, meaning it is complete and has everything we need, would not attempt to go beyond the teachings of those scriptures to find something extra-biblical to write/read books on and hang their hat in arguing for the truth.  It is a dead end road.

And I simply see the Bible Numerical codes as more evidence of God's hand being on the Authorized King James Holy Bible. I see these codes as internal witnesses.

We do not need more evidence.  We have the entire 66 books of the Bible and it is the complete evidence we need.  If indeed numeric codes were an "internal evidence" then we would find direct revelation regarding such a code (not just numerics, but a communicating code of numerics hidden in a text) internally within it.  It is not there, so this fad is not only un-necessary, but dangerous.

And if as you are reading one of those books, if you can see and discern that the Holy Spirit is confirming the truths contained therein, then there is your confirmation.

That's the thing.  I don't need a confirming witness.  I don't need an astral chart, nor a hidden code, or my palms read.  I'm fine just sticking with the King James Bible.

*Hat tip </).  Have a great Lord's Day tomorrow.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:18 (King James Bible)

Using that verse to support the Bible Code is a bigger stretch than Nancy Pelosi's face.

 

[Ransom]

We have here a KJVO whobclaims that the KJV is the exclusive Word of God and he cannot find anything in the KJV which promotes numerology. He is now advocating that we place man's reasonings upon the KJV.

And isn't putting human reason over the Scriptures more or less the definition (or at least the root cause) of theological liberalism?

I've said numerous times over the last 20 or so years that there wasn't much difference.

 

[Ransom]

it is..... but it also looks to me like you just defined calvinism as well.....

Well, bless your heart.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Scriptural Numerics is clearly in the Bible.

I keep asking you to define your terms. What is the "King James Code"? What is the "Bible pattern"? What is "Scriptural Numerics"?
Please define in 1 sentence or less.

Yes, Revelation says that 6 is the number of a man. No one (I don't think) is disagreeing with these statements. What does that have to do with a certain version of the Bible?
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six. (ASV)
Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. (ESV)
Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666. (NIV)

Multiple versions say that 6 is the number of a man.

Whenever we ask for proof of so-called "Biblical Code" or "Scriptural Numerics" you keep avoiding the question and simply post some random word that occurs a certain number of times. Give us the code!

Is this statement correct biblebeliever:
Every word in the KJV that occurs a number of times divisible by 7 refers to something Godly and all words referring to something Godly occur a number of times in the KJV divisible by 7.

Because that is a code. (even though we all know it's false.)

 

[Ransom]

i guess i should have expected no less.....

I guess I should have just taken your Calvin-bait, eh?

funny how a forum moderator... part of admin... can answer something like that i said so quickly..... but still can;t provide an answer for a post i reported that i found offensive.....

I did answer your report. I didn't find the movie quote objectively offensive, so I didn't moderate it.

. this forum really is just a place to promote calvinism and give a platform to those who want to provoke and ridicule non calvinists.... isn;t it?........

Shoot, our cover's blown. Well, suicide for me again.

 

[FSSL]

yes... it is ridicule.... ridicule in return......you might even call it an absalom burning of joabs farm kind of thing...... since nothing else seems to get a reply from you............ but i am curious..... do you have any answers to the messages i posted to you earlier about the post i found offensive and reported to you?

You posted a problem in the morning on Friday and when I didn't get to it that morning, you posted it publicly before noon my time. I happened to be spending time with my daughter that morning. I answered your problem publicly. It was actually solved by you going public with it. So, what is your kvetch?

...never the less... thank you for confirming what i said in the post you quoted but cut to suit your purposes.... it would have been nice to see you respond to the remark your friend rogue tomato made to me ...  that i found both suggestive and highly offensive .. as quickly as you responded to the post of mine above that you didn;t like.......

Since I have dealt with a number of offensives AND edited his posts, was there one I overlooked?

You are getting into a habit of accusing me unfairly. Your "it is ridicule, so I will ridicule like absalom" defense is just plain silly. If you don't like ridicule, then don't dish it out. For the record, I have not ridiculed you, ever.

If you were admin, what would you do with Rogue Tomato?

 

[Biblebeliever]

Bible believer show me a text that teaches biblical numerology.  I mean where that is the in context original meaning of the text.  If you can't do that - this whole endeavor is questionable at best and a heresy at worst but its definitely a waste of time.

Pastor Ryan,


there are many places in the Scriptures where Numbers show up. Remember that Bible Numerology is simply the study of the various meanings which numbers in the Bible have.

Take the number 70 for example. 70 is considered the Number of Compounded perfection, leadership, and judgment:


In Exodus 24:1 we see that Moses appointed 70 elders.

In Luke 10:1, Jesus chose 70 disciples to go into the cities to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.


Now let's take the Number 10. 10 is considered the Number of Kingship, Law, responsibility, and Restoration:

Regarding Law, there is the Ten Commandments which were given on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20). For Restoration, there are the ten lepers who received healing and cleansing (Luke 17:12-17), For responsibility, there is the parable of the ten virgins (Matthew 25:1-10). For kingship, take the ten kings which will receive power as kings one hour with the beast (Revelation 17:12 & Daniel 7:24).


You see, as you are reading through the Scriptures, you can see how certain numbers are used, and in the context of the passage, see what principle is being taught by that particular number in the Scriptures.

And I'll give you another example. The Number 5. In the Scriptures, the Number 5 represents God's goodness, Grace, Redemption, and can be associated with the Rapture:

How can we know that 5 is associated with the Rapture or translation in the Scriptures?

Simple, we know that in Genesis 5, Enoch gets translated in verse 24. And we know that he was translated because he please God (Hebrews 11:5).

And in regard to redemption.

The word "redemption" is found exactly 20 (Divisible by 5) times in the word of God. It occurs 20 times in the Scriptures, in 20 verses in 10 chapters in 10 books.

Again, Biblical Numerology is simply the study of numbers and their meaning in the Scripture. Another way to look at this is ask yourself a question such as: what does the number 8 mean in the Bible? Or the number 7? Or the number 6?

It is basically learning what is the Biblical meaning for a number in the Scriptures.

 

[Biblebeliever]

BB, I appreciate your gentlemanly spirit.  But without scriptural precedent, I am forced to reject such claims.  Yes, there is the truth of Biblical numerology.  I became acquainted with that many years ago when my pastor and father in the ministry gave me a book, "Knowing the Scriptures" by A.T. Pierson that had a whole chapter on the subject.  The trinity 3, 5 for grace, man's number of 6, and the perfect or completeness of 7 is significantly DEMONSTRATED IN SCRIPTURE.  But in a plenary inspired Bible, there is NO EXAMPLE of a numeric code underlying the scriptural text.  Ruckman and his followers' claims to the contrary is similar, in my mind, of other's use of astrology to attempt to forecast the future.  A true King James Bible believer who believes our God put the Bible together and it is plenary inspired, meaning it is complete and has everything we need, would not attempt to go beyond the teachings of those scriptures to find something extra-biblical to write/read books on and hang their hat in arguing for the truth.  It is a dead end road.

Well it is not going beyond the teachings of the Scriptures. I don't believe that these numerical codes can somehow be used to forecast the future, after all, we already know from the Scriptures what will take place in the future.

Just like there are books that are written on Bible Numerology, there are also books written on Dispensationalism, Systematic Theology, Eternal Security, and so forth.

We do not need more evidence.  We have the entire 66 books of the Bible and it is the complete evidence we need.  If indeed numeric codes were an "internal evidence" then we would find direct revelation regarding such a code (not just numerics, but a communicating code of numerics hidden in a text) internally within it.  It is not there, so this fad is not only un-necessary, but dangerous.

Well you and I may not need it sir. But again, these patterns and codes are definitely in the text of the Authorized Version. I have verified them myself. And these same codes are not in the modern versions.

I really don't see sir, how the study of Bible Numerology and Numbers in the Scriptures is dangerous. Now if people choose not to study the subject, well then alright, they may just find an interest in other subjects in the Bible.

That's the thing.  I don't need a confirming witness.  I don't need an astral chart, nor a hidden code, or my palms read.  I'm fine just sticking with the King James Bible.

*Hat tip </).  Have a great Lord's Day tomorrow.

Well sir, please do understand, I did not say that you needed a confirming witness. Or a reading of the palm. Or a hidden code. In fact, I am not even trying to prove that you do, all I know is that I believe that these Numerical codes further show God's handy work in the Authorized King James Version.


And like I said earlier, I simply believe that these codes are just further evidence that the King James Holy Bible is the very word of God.


And again, keep in mind, I became a King James Bible believer a good while before I even discovered the study of Bible Numerics. And if I had not been shown the Numerical codes, I would still, by the grace of God, be a King James Bible believer.

But I am glad that I found out about these codes. Because it just another witness to the fact that the Authorized King James Bible is a supernatural Book. And I am sure a lot of people on here will continue to avoid the subject of Scipture Numerics, and if they want to do that, well then that is them. But I have already seen and verified these codes and patterns for myself and I know that they are real. And they can all be found in the text of the King James Bible.


And yeah, as long as you stick with the King James Holy Bible, you'll be just fine sir.


And thank you for the kind words sir. Have a wonderful weekend in the Lord! 

 

[Biblebeliever]

I keep asking you to define your terms. What is the "King James Code"? What is the "Bible pattern"? What is "Scriptural Numerics"?
Please define in 1 sentence or less.

I actually defined Bible Numerics earlier Darkwing Duck. But I will give a definition again.

Scriptural Numerics is simply the study of Numbers and their meaning in the Scriptures.

Now regarding your question of what is the King James Code, I will share an excerpt from Mike Hoggard's book (The King James Code), since he does a good job of explaining it:


The King James Bible contains a system of numbers that are consistently linked with words or phrases in the scriptures. It is understood that the Bible can be comprehended on many levels. The more you study the Scriptures and become accustomed to them, the more you understand the Divine symbols of certain passages that you never saw before. These must always come as a product of Divine Revelation. Certain words and phrases take on a whole new meaning, never contradictory to any other passage in the Scriptures. As you study, you begin to see also that numbers seem to have a certain relevance in the Bible. Each number will have its own symbolic meaning. - Mike Hoggard (The King James Code, Introduction)

Yes, Revelation says that 6 is the number of a man. No one (I don't think) is disagreeing with these statements. What does that have to do with a certain version of the Bible?
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six. (ASV)
Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666. (ESV)
Revelation 13:18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666. (NIV)

Multiple versions say that 6 is the number of a man.

[size=12pt]
I understand that multiple versions say that 6 is the number of a man.

Whenever we ask for proof of so-called "Biblical Code" or "Scriptural Numerics" you keep avoiding the question and simply post some random word that occurs a certain number of times. Give us the code!

I gave you an example of a Biblical Code.

Again, here are a few of the Numerical codes which Mike Hoggard lists in his book:


Church    77 times (as in the 77 generations of Luke 3)
Kingdom of God    70 times, found only in the New Testament
Assembly    49 times
Bride    14 times
Firstfruits    7 times in the New Testament
Daughter of Zion (or Sion)    28 times (7x4)
Daughter of Jerusalem    7 times
Daughters of Jerusalem  7 times (all in the Song of Solomon, found only one other time in Luke 23:28)
Children of Israel    644 times (7x92)
Congregation    49 times in the Book of Exodus
Tabernacle of the Congregation  21 times in Exodus (7x3)
56 times in Numbers (7x8)
Witnesses    49 times
Fishers (as in fishers of men)    7 times
Peculiar    7 times
Kinsmen    7 times
Worshippers    7 times
Workmanship    7 times

Is this statement correct biblebeliever:
Every word in the KJV that occurs a number of times divisible by 7 refers to something Godly and all words referring to something Godly occur a number of times in the KJV divisible by 7.

That is an interesting question.

I will definitely have to get back to you on that.

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi,

A true King James Bible believer who believes our God put the Bible together and it is plenary inspired, meaning it is complete and has everything we need, would not attempt to go beyond the teachings of those scriptures to find something extra-biblical to write/read books on and hang their hat in arguing for the truth.  It is a dead end road.

Amen.

Specifically, I was disappointed with Peter Ruckman for promoting material from Periander Aban Esplana of the Philippines. (which may or may not be the source for some of the thread material, I have not checked.) 

Yours in Jesus,
Steven Avery

 

[Ransom]

Scriptural Numerics is simply the study of Numbers and their meaning in the Scriptures.

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

Where does God ever tell us that word counts are an important part of his revelation that we are to study?

 

[subllibrm]

Scriptural Numerics is simply the study of Numbers and their meaning in the Scriptures.

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

Where does God ever tell us that word counts are an important part of his revelation that we are to study?

And, where does God tell us such and such a number means so and so?

For instance BB writes:

Now let's take the Number 10. 10 is considered the Number of Kingship, Law, responsibility, and Restoration.

Based upon what? Considered to mean thus by whom? When were these numeric assignments made?

Another example from BB:

And I'll give you another example. The Number 5. In the Scriptures, the Number 5 represents God's goodness, Grace, Redemption, and can be associated with the Rapture:

How can we know that 5 is associated with the Rapture or translation in the Scriptures?

Simple, we know that in Genesis 5, Enoch gets translated in verse 24. And we know that he was translated because he please God (Hebrews 11:5).

How can they relate to chapter or verse numbers? Moses didn't write Genesis with chapter divisions. And if verse numbers matter why didn't Enoch get translated in a verse divisible by 5?

This is all an exercise in coincidental findings and exaggerating them into something meaningful.

 

[Ransom]

Specifically, I was disappointed with Peter Ruckman for promoting material from Periander Aban Esplana of the Philippines. (which may or may not be the source for some of the thread material, I have not checked.)

So, basically, you haven't read the thread, but you couldn't help throwing in your two cents.

That must be the story of your life, Avery . . .

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi,

Actually, I did read the full thread, at the time of making the comment above, however I did not go back over the Mike Hoggard material to compare it with Periander to see if there was any dependency, or similar finds. Afaik, those are the main two individuals who emphasize AV codes.

And that comparison I still have not done. One reason, I tend to find such material uninteresting.  Too much moving the target to hit the arrow already sent.

And I did check a couple of numbers with my PCE edition search feature from SwordSearcher, and they generally came out different.  However, the person looking for the specific number has a number of tweaking methodologies to get the "hit".  This is true in codes in general, whether it be the Bible codes of a few years back, Ivan Panin, KJV codes, others.

As I said above, I found the Peter Ruckman positive reference to Periander disappointing.

On other topics, I did try to follow Michael Hoggard on some of his DNA argumentation.  I was hoping that it might get into the question of the specific DNA of the Lord Jesus through the virgin birth.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven

 

[Ransom]

Actually, I did read the full thread, at the time of making the comment above, however I did not go back over the Mike Hoggard material to compare it with Periander to see if there was any dependency, or similar finds. Afaik, those are the main two individuals who emphasize AV codes.

So you still didn't let not knowing stop you from opinionating.

Never in history has knowing so little, led to so much volume of verbal diarrhea.