The King James Code

[Steven Avery]

Hi,

So you still didn't let not knowing stop you from opinionating. Never in history has knowing so little, led to so much volume of verbal diarrhea.

Your hostility on this is strange.

It is obvious that Michael Hoggard and Periader both work with supposed KJB codes.  I pointed out my disappointment with Ruckman's complimenting Periander, giving a type of approval to such code analysis.  In a sense, I am on your side here, where the distinction is made between numbers in the scriptures and counting numbers from the scripture letters.

So I think the silly hostility above is that you are discomfited that I agree with your position, so you have to fall back to your more base and vulgar nature.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven Avery

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Hi,

So you still didn't let not knowing stop you from opinionating. Never in history has knowing so little, led to so much volume of verbal diarrhea.

Your hostility on this is strange.

It is obvious that Michael Hoggard and Periader both work with supposed KJB codes.  I pointed out my disappointment with Ruckman's complimenting Periander, giving a type of approval to such code analysis.  In a sense, I am on your side here, where the distinction is made between numbers in the scriptures and counting numbers from the scripture letters.

So I think the silly hostility above is that you are discomfited that I agree with your position, so you have to fall back to your more base and vulgar nature.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven Avery

Don't take it personally.  Ransom is just a cranky guy who makes a hobby of belittling posts.  Everyone needs a hobby.

 

[Ransom]

Your hostility on this is strange.

Coming from you, that means a big deal . . . of nothing. Everything you disagree with is "strange" or "silly," as if disagreeing with your uninformed opinions is prima facie evidence of eccentricity or mental deficiency.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Your hostility on this is strange.

Coming from you, that means a big deal . . . of nothing. Everything you disagree with is "strange" or "silly," as if disagreeing with your uninformed opinions is prima facie evidence of eccentricity or mental deficiency.

See what I mean?  And he's Canadian, too.  And you know what they say about Canadians, eh?  Personally, I don't know what they say about Canadians, but I assume you know. 

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi ,

Understood. However, the fact that Scott went out of his way to be bitter and cranky and vulgar just because I agreed with his position is a tad ironic.

Yours in Jesus,
Steven

 

[Biblebeliever]

Scriptural Numerics is simply the study of Numbers and their meaning in the Scriptures.

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

Well consider this Scott, from reading and studying the King James Bible, a Christian can begin to see that there is a Numerical structure within the Scriptures.

Let us just look at the number one (1) for instance. Let us see how the number one is used and mentioned in the Scriputres within a few places.

Let's first start out with one of the Pauline Epistles, Ephesians.


4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. - Ephesians 4:4-6 (King James Bible)


Now notice how the number one (1) is used in that passage of the Scriptures (Ephesians 4:4-6).


You have the following mentioned:


One body, one Spirit, one hope, One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God.



From reading and studying the context of the passage of Ephesians 4:1-6, we can see what major meaning the number one has in the Holy Scriptures:


4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. - Ephesians 4:1-6 (King James Bible)



So from reading the passage and seeing what the context is, it can be said that the Number One (1) in the Scriptures means Unity. In other words, we can discover that Unity is one of the meanings that is connected with the number one in the Scriptures.


Now let us look at the Old Testament for an example that is a little different  to the one given above:


11 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. - Genesis 11:1-9 (King James Bible)


Now we can see from the context of the passage, that the people came together and united to build a tower that would reach unto heaven. The only thing is the unity being represented in this very passage of Genesis 11, I believe is a type of the Ecumenical Unity that we see so prevalent in our culture today, especially in the church. For instance, you have the National Council of Churches (Ecumenical), World Council of Churches (Ecumenical), Rick Warren's Chrislam (Ecumenical), National Day of Prayer (Ecumenical), Charismatic or Charismania movement (Ecumenical), Emergent Church movement (Ecumenical), Promise Keepers (Ecumenical), and so on.


All these which I just listed are seeking to unite people, the only problem is they are seeking unity at the expense of the truth. The Charismatic movement is especially known for breaking down doctrinal barriers, the Charismatics seek to unite at the expense of Sound Bible Doctrine.


That's why Paul Crouch (Founder of TBN) was known to ridicule anyone who examined his ministry and who critiqued it in anyway, calling them "heresy hunters" and "Doctrine Cops."


But getting back to the example given in Genesis 11:1-7, it is also evident from reading that passage and its context, that the number one means unity in the Scriptures. The people in Genesis 11 got together and united and came together as one for a common goal, which was to build a tall tower that would reach up to Heaven.

Where does God ever tell us that word counts are an important part of his revelation that we are to study?

Well let me answer this question of yours Scott with a question, Is there a subject that you know of which the Bible is silent about?

 

[Ransom]

Well consider this Scott, from reading and studying the King James Bible, a Christian can begin to see that there is a Numerical structure within the Scriptures.

So what?  That didn't even begin to address the point I made:

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

Let us just look at the number one (1) for instance.

http://youtu.be/d5ab8BOu4LE

Where does God ever tell us that word counts are an important part of his revelation that we are to study?

Well let me answer this question of yours Scott with a question, Is there a subject that you know of which the Bible is silent about?

Yes. That word counts are an important revelation that we are to study.

 

[subllibrm]

And, where does God tell us such and such a number means so and so?

For instance BB writes:

Now let's take the Number 10. 10 is considered the Number of Kingship, Law, responsibility, and Restoration.

Based upon what? Considered to mean thus by whom? When were these numeric assignments made?

Another example from BB:

And I'll give you another example. The Number 5. In the Scriptures, the Number 5 represents God's goodness, Grace, Redemption, and can be associated with the Rapture:

How can we know that 5 is associated with the Rapture or translation in the Scriptures?

Simple, we know that in Genesis 5, Enoch gets translated in verse 24. And we know that he was translated because he please God (Hebrews 11:5).

How can they relate to chapter or verse numbers? Moses didn't write Genesis with chapter divisions. And if verse numbers matter why didn't Enoch get translated in a verse divisible by 5?

This is all an exercise in coincidental findings and exaggerating them into something meaningful.

Biblebeliever, would you be so kind as to address my comments above?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

 

[subllibrm]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

If you have a pair and three of a kind you normally win the hand.  8)

 

[T-Bone]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

Yeah but a three strand cord is not easily broken!...so three must stand for strong! 8)

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

Yeah but a three strand cord is not easily broken!...so three must stand for strong! 8)

And one of the twelve (Judas) was evil.  So 1/12 must stand for evil.  8)

 

[subllibrm]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

Yeah but a three strand cord is not easily broken!...so three must stand for strong! 8)

And one of the twelve (Judas) was evil.  So 1/12 must stand for evil.  8)

But eleven means the baker shorted you a donut so eleven must stand for dishonesty. Or forgetfulness. Or bad math skills. ???

 

[T-Bone]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

Yeah but a three strand cord is not easily broken!...so three must stand for strong! 8)

And one of the twelve (Judas) was evil.  So 1/12 must stand for evil.  8)

Oh but you must be wrong there brother...because 1/3 of the angels fell with Satan...so 1/3 must mean evil or at least fallen!

 

[T-Bone]

One means Unity?! 
Next you'll be telling us that two means a pair!

(Of course 1 means Unity, you can't have disunity with only 1 of something)

Yeah but a three strand cord is not easily broken!...so three must stand for strong! 8)

And one of the twelve (Judas) was evil.  So 1/12 must stand for evil.  8)

But eleven means the baker shorted you a donut so eleven must stand for dishonesty. Or forgetfulness. Or bad math skills. ???

Personally I prefer a baker's dozen...that way I get an extra donut!

 

[lnf]

13...the number of blessing?  I always feel blessed when I get an extra donut. 

 

[Biblebeliever]

So what?  That didn't even begin to address the point I made:

The point is God using numbers in the Scriptures, especially the number 7.

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

The numbers used in the Scriptures are in the Scriptures.

Let us just look at the number one (1) for instance.

http://youtu.be/d5ab8BOu4LE

Where does God ever tell us that word counts are an important part of his revelation that we are to study?

Well by studying the Scriptures, we study the accounts that are in it and also we take the numbers into account. For instance:

"seven days"

"seven months"

"seven years"

"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

These are all found in the Holy Scriptures. Therefore God uses numbers a great deal in His holy word.

 

[Biblebeliever]

And 2000 years ago, the saints thought the same thing. And 1000 years ago. And 500. And 100...

Again, those very events are happening today at an alarming rate. It is not a matter of us thinking they are happening, because they are happening!



[quote author=rsc2a]
And I don't think you know what "universal" means. By far, the most popular language spoken is Mandarin Chinese. (Actually, if you count the other forms of "Chinese", you'll have to add again another several 100M more speakers...) [/quote]


English is the second largest native language in the world. It is also the official language in about 70 countries. Now I am aware that it has been said that if Chinese were to be written with the Latin alphabet, that it could very well become a universal language. But what holds the Chinese back from becoming a universal language is the fact that it has no conjugations or declension. It also has very difficult scripts and tones.

[quote author=rsc2a]
Yes. They say it is perfect. You were supposed to provide me with a definition of what a perfect Bible is according to Scripture.[/quote]


Since the Bible is God's holy word, then it is absolutely pure and perfect. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).


5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV)

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. - John 17:17 (KJV)


2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
-Psalm 138:2 (KJV)


[quote author=rsc2a]
KJV:No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

ESV: No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

The KJV clearly is attacking the deity of Jesus here since the modern versions explicitly call Jesus "God" and the KJV only calls him "begotten Son".

We should toss the KJV out as being a tool of Satan.  :[/quote]


No Rsc2a. The KJV honours and exalts the deity and person of the Lord Jesus Christ. John 1:18 is rendered perfectly in the Authorized Version.

Now take a look at what the New American Standard Version does to John 1:18:


New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

It promotes two Gods for your worship. An unbegotten God and a begotten God.


[quote author=rsc2a]


That's right. There's only one...except that "one" seems to change quite a bit depending on which "one" you happen to pick up.
[/quote]


What do you mean?

 

[rsc2a]

And 2000 years ago, the saints thought the same thing. And 1000 years ago. And 500. And 100...

Again, those very events are happening today at an alarming rate. It is not a matter of us thinking they are happening, because they are happening!

And 2000 years ago, the saints thought the same thing. And 1000 years ago. And 500. And 100...

(Honestly, I thought you'd figure this part out by now.)

[quote author=Biblebeliever][quote author=rsc2a]
And I don't think you know what "universal" means. By far, the most popular language spoken is Mandarin Chinese. (Actually, if you count the other forms of "Chinese", you'll have to add again another several 100M more speakers...) [/quote]

English is the second largest native language in the world. It is also the official language in about 70 countries. Now I am aware that it has been said that if Chinese were to be written with the Latin alphabet, that it could very well become a universal language. But what holds the Chinese back from becoming a universal language is the fact that it has no conjugations or declension. It also has very difficult scripts and tones.[/quote]

Yes. English is the second third largest native language. Chinese is 'only' the native tongue for by about 2.5x as many people (and more people than #2 & 3 combined). And many of those countries you referred to have more than ten 'official' languages.

[quote author=Biblebeliever][quote author=rsc2a]
Yes. They say it is perfect. You were supposed to provide me with a definition of what a perfect Bible is according to Scripture.[/quote]

Since the Bible is God's holy word, then it is absolutely pure and perfect. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).[/quote]

Great! Perfect means perfect. Now can you tell me where the Bible defines what it means by perfect?

[quote author=Biblebeliever][quote author=rsc2a]
KJV:No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

ESV: No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

The KJV clearly is attacking the deity of Jesus here since the modern versions explicitly call Jesus "God" and the KJV only calls him "begotten Son".

We should toss the KJV out as being a tool of Satan.  :[/quote]


No Rsc2a. The KJV honours and exalts the deity and person of the Lord Jesus Christ. John 1:18 is rendered perfectly in the Authorized Version.[/quote]

Time to start using different standards to defend your idol. After all, there's no way your argument holds any legitimacy if you require the same standards from your idol.

[quote author=Biblebeliever]Now take a look at what the New American Standard Version does to John 1:18:

New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

It promotes two Gods for your worship. An unbegotten God and a begotten God.[/quote]

No. It promotes one god with two Persons (in this passage). It talks about a third Person in other passages. What in the world is the deal with KJVo-ist and their heretical views regarding the Trinity?

[quote author=Biblebeliever][quote author=rsc2a]That's right. There's only one...except that "one" seems to change quite a bit depending on which "one" you happen to pick up.
[/quote]

What do you mean?[/quote]

I mean your KJV might be different than another KJV which might be different from another KJV which might be.... Your idea of only one version of the KJV is a delusion.

 

[Ransom]

Then the King James Bible code is not "Scriptural Numerics," because it isn't the study of numbers in the Scriptures. It deals with statistics - numbers about the Scriptures. It's not the study of the Bible. It's only a kind of meta-analysis, and not a particularly good one.

The numbers used in the Scriptures are in the Scriptures.

Obviously you didn't get my point.

Do you understand that there is a difference between God using a number in the Scriptures (e.g. "And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done," Gen. 2:2), and a man-made, extrabiblical statistic about a certain word frequency (e.g. "The word foobar occurs seven times in the Old Testament")?

If you can't understand the difference between a number in the Bible and a number about the Bible, there simply isn't any purpose in trying to reason with you any longer.