The Machine Model in Medicine

DrHuk&Duck said:
There are a few churches in Appalachia that eschew medicine and doctors. Of course, they also believe in tossing around venomous snakes. Their life expectancy is similar to those of the Middle Ages. šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø
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You are a master of the irrelevant and non sequitur.
 
Ekklesian said:
You are a master of the irrelevant and non sequitur.
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and you appear to be a master of baiting..... ..... entertaining yourself by pretending to be an expert on subjects you know nothing about.... as if you could "educate" the people who do know about these subjects by doubling down on your ingnorance..... ... ..what;s the matter?..... did somebody back in your sad demented past not give you enough credit or make you feel special enough about yourself?......

fact is... we are both.... both soul and machine.... .. we are a machine of flesh and blood that God breathed a spirit into... .. .but if you really doubt the importance of the "machine" as much as you appear to.. ..there is an easy way to prove both that you are right and also that you really believe what you are saying.....

when the time comes that you wake up in the middle of the night with crushing chest pain and difficulty breathing don;t bother calling 911 or trying to get to a hospital... .. just call your preacher and go to church........

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edit... and by the way....just so you don;t get the idea you are totally getting away with switching get away cars to hide your tracks..... . here;s a link to the first thread you started on this subject..... (and i didn;t put it here just for you - it;s for others who might not be aware of what happened in the first thread..;)..)

Ekklesian

Thread 'The Machine Model in Medicine'

...and one reason, if not the main reason, God vested the gifts of healing in the church.

evolutionnews.org

The Machine Model in Medicine | Evolution News

The unfortunate fact is, there really are those two conflicting sides in medicine.
evolutionnews.org evolutionnews.org

I was struck by his comment, ā€œWhen my dad was dying, I saw both sides of the healthcare world, one that fought stubbornly to save a life and the other that was coldly indifferent and even eager to end it.ā€​
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in the process of our education and training, it became increasingly obvious that a conflict could emerge if one overemphasized the scientific quest at the...​
 
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do you know what ignorant blowhards do when they make an ass of themselves in the first thread they started in an attempt to convince people they are smart? ........ they start another thread on the same topic and label it "part 2".. :ROFLMAO: ....


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DrHuk&Duck said:
There are a few churches in Appalachia that eschew medicine and doctors. Of course, they also believe in tossing around venomous snakes. Their life expectancy is similar to those of the Middle Ages. šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø
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there are many lurid individuals in the secular world who believe modern medicine has caused people not worthy of it to live too long.... . and by not worthy i mean people not having the right health habits or possessing the right genetics to live a long life without the assistance of medicine.. .. ..... . they view people in those appalachian churches as being among those types.... and even though they have no belief of their own they actually encourage that kind of belief system and religious practice for others ....... .it;s their way of helping "reduce the surplus population" - to quote a phrase from dickens......
 
IFB X-Files said:
A great topic. I follow this person and have just finished this episode.

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i have watched a lot of her videos and agree with a lot of what she has to say... she also speaks from a broad base
of knowledge on her subject matter..... and she;s right about the brutal working conditions medical
personnel are subjected to.... that has affected our whole family and the we operate for decades.... .

not sure how it all fits into what ekk has been talking about though.. .. he seems to have an animosity
towards traditonal medicine which is based on having no knowledge of the subject matter at all....
 
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DrHuk&Duck said:
@Ekklesian - just out of curiosity, do you work in the field of medicine?
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good luck getting an answer to that one... .. i have been asking him that since the day he started this.... i still think he;s closer to being a school janitor than any kind of medic....
 
aleshanee said:
not sure how it all fits into what ekk has been talking about though.. .. he seems to have an animosity
towards traditonal medicine which is based on having no knowledge of the subject matter at all....
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She speaks to the corruption of "traditional medicine" (i.e. government controlled)
 
IFB X-Files said:
She speaks to the corruption of "traditional medicine" (i.e. government controlled)
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i would agree with that for the most part..... and also agree completely that God originally gifted medicine and the healing arts to the church... (somethng i don;t recall her mentioning in any of her videos... unless i just missed it)...

but the fact remains that governments did not simply step in and shove the church aside when it came to issues like medicine... as well as other issues like social services and providing for the welfare of the poor and less fortunate.... . governments and other secular entities stepped in when the church either abdicated it;s responsibility in these areas ... or refused to advance it;s knowledge and keep up with the current standards and technologies already being proven to save lives....

when i said she is right about the brutal conditions medical personnel are subjected to i didn;t mention that the reason that happens so often is there is a critical shortage of medical personnel in this country to begin with.... .. and has been for many years.. ... add to that the fact that some people who enter medicine have no stomach for it and freak out relegating themselves to sitting by holding hands while people die rather than getting to work and doing what has to be done........ ..i have actually seen members of the church defend people like that and also attempt to defend others who acted with incompetence and allowed people to die that should not have.........

so while i agree with her about the problem being too much government control... i am not sure she has all the answers... or even the right answers..... most people who are at working trying to find the answers to those problems don;t have time to stand back and complain about it.... and certainly no time to make videos.... they are too busy trying to recruit and train new people for the job.... if anything...her approach... while mostly truthful actually discourages people from entering the field......

and for a person in the medical field to say she doesn;t agree with reaching out to work with those we just defeated in the last election is downright insideous... ..... that;s the kind of attitude that kills people not the kind that saves lives...... her education taught her a lot and she is right about many things.. .. but the things she is wrong about might indicate she didn;t possess the right temperment for the medical field to begin with.. .....
 
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aleshanee said:
good luck getting an answer to that one... .. i have been asking him that since the day he started this.... i still think he;s closer to being a school janitor than any kind of medic....
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But I know what the Bible says.

I have a question for you: In all the practice of neurology, where motor and sensory functions can be stimulated till the cows come home...has any neurologist been able to stimulate an abstract thought in a subject?

Words are spirit. God is the Word.

Let's just cut to the chase. You want me to deny what is revealed to us about the mind and spirit of man, and confess that identity, personalities and cogent thoughts are the product of chemistry.

I was acquainted with a gal in college who at times experienced sleep paralysis. She heard voices having conversions about her. She told me some of the vile things they discussed doing.

Now these are cogent thoughts. Evil thoughts. They're the product of an intelligence, or intelligences. Either her own evil intelligence or the intelligence of others. But one thing is sure. They're not the product of chemistry. It doesn't matter that pills can give relief. David's music gave relief to Saul, but the source of his torment was spiritual. (And no, it was NOT because of David's spirit. They looked for a skilled musician.)

I don't claim to understand it. I just accept it. I suspect, though, that it is a two-way street.

It's atheism that says we're just the products of chemistry. That all ailment, physical and mental, is due to some molecular defect or short circuit in the brain.

You can appeal to medical science and the illusion of modern advances all you want. You still have to deal with the First Century. Was the church in the First Century equipped to minister to diseases of the mind or not?

(Despite the assertions of atheistic science, the brain and the mind are not the same thing.)

Again, was the church in the First Century equipped to minister to diseases of the mind or not? If not, then you're asserting there is a new ailment, that people can experience a cruelty today unimaginable to past generations, and that Christ ill-equipped His church for the latter days, and you are the apostle of a new faith. If the first-century church was equipped, then the only thing that could have changed is the thinking.

You have no alternative.

What is it? Are you a more enlightened apostle of a new faith? Or are you merely expressing the change in thinking?
 
aleshanee said:
do you know what ignorant blowhards do when they make an ass of themselves in the first thread they started in an attempt to convince people they are smart? ........ they start another thread on the same topic and label it "part 2".. :ROFLMAO: ....


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Our resident Diet Pentecostal thinks you're scoring points. šŸ¤­
 
IFB X-Files said:
A great topic. I follow this person and have just finished this episode.

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www.americanthinker.com

An Insider Describes the Medical Field

By the number of years put in, I am nearing the end of my professional career, the setting sun in sight. However, looking back, I see that the sun began to set long ago. A career has a sense of permanence. Mine became a job t...
www.americanthinker.com www.americanthinker.com

There is no longer an ā€œartā€ to practicing medicine. I have seen it morph from independent judgment to insurance guidelines to hospital protocols. As the larger entity takes over the smaller, the protocols change, seemingly by whim. ā€œItā€™s how we do it at [fill in the blank].ā€ That is, unless a patientā€™s medical insurer requires ā€œprecertificationā€ of my proposed treatment. Interestingly, no other entity or individual is listed on my malpractice policy.​
 
Ekklesian said:
But I know what the Bible says.

I have a question for you: In all the practice of neurology, where motor and sensory functions can be stimulated till the cows come home...has any neurologist been able to stimulate an abstract thought in a subject?

Words are spirit. God is the Word.

Let's just cut to the chase. You want me to deny what is revealed to us about the mind and spirit of man, and confess that identity, personalities and cogent thoughts are the product of chemistry.

I was acquainted with a gal in college who at times experienced sleep paralysis. She heard voices having conversions about her. She told me some of the vile things they discussed doing.

Now these are cogent thoughts. Evil thoughts. They're the product of an intelligence, or intelligences. Either her own evil intelligence or the intelligence of others. But one thing is sure. They're not the product of chemistry. It doesn't matter that pills can give relief. David's music gave relief to Saul, but the source of his torment was spiritual. (And no, it was NOT because of David's spirit. They looked for a skilled musician.)

I don't claim to understand it. I just accept it. I suspect, though, that it is a two-way street.

It's atheism that says we're just the products of chemistry. That all ailment, physical and mental, is due to some molecular defect or short circuit in the brain.

You can appeal to medical science and the illusion of modern advances all you want. You still have to deal with the First Century. Was the church in the First Century equipped to minister to diseases of the mind or not?

(Despite the assertions of atheistic science, the brain and the mind are not the same thing.)

Again, was the church in the First Century equipped to minister to diseases of the mind or not? If not, then you're asserting there is a new ailment, that people can experience a cruelty today unimaginable to past generations, and that Christ ill-equipped His church for the latter days, and you are the apostle of a new faith. If the first-century church was equipped, then the only thing that could have changed is the thinking.

You have no alternative.

What is it? Are you a more enlightened apostle of a new faith? Or are you merely expressing the change in thinking?
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you have an active imagination.... i;ll give you that.... but i don;t believe you have any idea what the bible says.... oh you might know the words.. . but you have no idea how to interpret them.... you point out that scientists can map the brain but not understand the mind?.... well the same thing applies to you with regards to scripture.... ....

and it;s pretty obvious you have no understanding of early church history either.. ... ..especially where early 1st century medical science - as the church understood it - was concerned.... or why medical knowledge and concepts people of that time period.... even theologians and physicians... could not possibly understand were not explained to them by Jesus.... ... even as Jesus healed those things right in front of them... .. and yes - Jesus gave the apostles a temporary ability to heal all manner of diseases as He did ... but that was a temporary power that applied only to those apostles..... yet they still didn;t understand how the brain.. the mind.. or how much of the body worked even as they performed the healing...

after that the rest of the christian world was taught to continue in faith and continue in learning... and to continue to apply what they learned in regards to healing....most of all to continue having compassion towards those they could not heal.. ..which many have failed at as the centuries passed..

your problem is you are looking at everything in black and white when it is far from it..... ... .maybe that;s a product of your machinist and robotics training.... i really don;t know......

but as human beings who are both flesh and spirit - very few things are purely black or white.... ..the mind and the brain work together.. .... i have explained many times here how the brain stores memories and can replay those memories in dreams... even replaying sounds and words as if we were hearing them all over again.... and it can do it during waking dreams too including causing halucinations.. .

i am not going to write it all out and explain it again ... especially not for someone like you who would reject everything i wrote anyway... even if you saw it you would pretend not to see it just to protect your pride... .. .. . but do you really believe all that happens in dreams is because of demons?.... . .. you know nothing about anatomy or physiology and even less about the workings of the brain and how schizophrenia affects it.... .... yet you seem to think you have it all figured out.... ...

.. i;m not a neurologist and you are not either..... but i have a been a patient of neurology for many years and it has helped me immensly..... but according to you.. a keyboard warrior with a nasty disposition and a background in robotics... i am supposed to just throw all that away and trust you telling me i might be demon oppressed - just because you also claim to know the bible better than anyone else here?

you are nothing but a joke...... and a very sick joke at that... ... . people like you do more harm than good to both christians and people who should be in the care of real doctors...... go peddle your quack medicine and your shadetree theology somewhere else.
 
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Ekklesian said:
www.americanthinker.com

An Insider Describes the Medical Field

By the number of years put in, I am nearing the end of my professional career, the setting sun in sight. However, looking back, I see that the sun began to set long ago. A career has a sense of permanence. Mine became a job t...
www.americanthinker.com www.americanthinker.com

There is no longer an ā€œartā€ to practicing medicine. I have seen it morph from independent judgment to insurance guidelines to hospital protocols. As the larger entity takes over the smaller, the protocols change, seemingly by whim. ā€œItā€™s how we do it at [fill in the blank].ā€ That is, unless a patientā€™s medical insurer requires ā€œprecertificationā€ of my proposed treatment. Interestingly, no other entity or individual is listed on my malpractice policy.​
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yeah..... new insurance rules enacted by obama and democrats have caused major problems for medical practitioners trying to minister to the people in their care... ... but is that a reason to throw the whole thing out and fall back on benny hinnism and prayer hanky medicine?..... ... returning medicine to what it was before obama would be a better option.... . in the mean time smart doctors can still work within the system to get done what they need to do - by staying a step ahead of the insurance companies - who are by and large staffed with bureaucratic types who have no more medical training than you do....... ..it;s not easy.... but anyone who wants easy solutions should not try to go into medicine.. ... and they have no business trying to play doctor from the machine shop either..... ....
 
aleshanee said:
yeah..... new insurance rules enacted by obama and democrats have caused major problems for medical practitioners trying to minister to the people in their care... ... but is that a reason to throw the whole thing out and fall back on benny hinnism and prayer hanky medicine?..... ... returning medicine to what it was before obama would be a better option.... . in the mean time smart doctors can still work within the system to get done what they need to do - by staying a step ahead of the insurance companies - who are by and large staffed with bureaucratic types who have no more medical training than you do....... ..it;s not easy.... but anyone who wants easy solutions should not try to go into medicine.. ... and they have no business trying to play doctor from the machine shop either..... ....
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Did you read the article?
 
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