The Machine Model in Medicine

Ekklesian said:
What is my world view, particularly in the medical field?

And please post a pic of your legs. I think everyone would be interested in the aparatus enabling your leaps to conclusions residing on the dark side of the moon.

aleshanee, when you hang your trousers out to dry, do the cuffs reach the sidewalk 29 floors below?
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it would be 39 floors below.... and our building has a rule against hanging clothing out on the balconies.... . so i wouldn;t know... :cool: ....
 
Ekklesian said:
What is my world view, particularly in the medical field?

And please post a pic of your legs. I think everyone would be interested in the aparatus enabling your leaps to conclusions residing on the dark side of the moon.

aleshanee, when you hang your trousers out to dry, do the cuffs reach the sidewalk 29 floors below?
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I’m going to politely decline your request for a picture of my legs…ahem.

Anyway, I’m going back a couple years here, but if memory serves me correctly, you grew up Pentecostal. If so, it’s not uncommon for some congregations to eschew modern medicine and instead promote “holy oil,” the laying of hands, etc. Sometimes illnesses are perceived as a torment of “the devil.”

Faith-Based Medical Neglect: for Providers and Policymakers - PMC

A substantial minority of Americans have religious beliefs against one or more medical treatments. Some groups promote exclusive reliance on prayer and ritual for healing nearly all diseases. Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose blood transfusions. Hundreds ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m going to politely decline your request for a picture of my legs…ahem.
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Just as well. Unless they're as outrageous as the conclusions you jump to, it would likely be a big disappointment.

DrHuk&Duck said:
Anyway, I’m going back a couple years here, but if memory serves me correctly, you grew up Pentecostal. If so, it’s not uncommon for some congregations to eschew modern medicine and instead promote “holy oil,” the laying of hands, etc. Sometimes illnesses are perceived as a torment of “the devil.”

Faith-Based Medical Neglect: for Providers and Policymakers - PMC

A substantial minority of Americans have religious beliefs against one or more medical treatments. Some groups promote exclusive reliance on prayer and ritual for healing nearly all diseases. Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose blood transfusions. Hundreds ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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You're thinking I'm the 'faith-healer' type. I've given you no reason to think that. But if you jump to that conclusion when I speak of the gifts of healing—that is, ministry—, or if I were to mention a verse like James 5:14, it may be your pendulum has swung too far to the faithless side.

I think the working out of those gifts are in the ministries of Christian Hospitals. Within driving distance from me there is St. Luke's, St. Joseph's, St. Mary's, Baptist Medical Center. Where are the Muslim hospitals? The Wiccan hospitals? Where are the Charles Darwin hospitals?

The fact is that the really helpful advances in medicine resulted from believing scientists and doctors. The one credited for developing anesthesia drew inspiration from the narrative of Adam's deep sleep when God opened his side to take a rib to form Eve. It was Pasteur's faith and Creationism that guided him in developing a pasteurization process and innoculation. I had a book at one time that contained quite an extensive list of advances that would not have happened without Christianity. I don't have it anymore.

A cursory internet search brought up some interesting reading.

creation.com

Modern medicine?

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.
creation.com creation.com
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But you get the picture. I'm not saying prayers and fastings should not be offered up for the sick. Quite the contrary, it is a duty too often neglected. It's the duty of elders to pray for and visit the sick under their care. God has imposed that duty upon them. He hasn't imposed it upon atheists or pagans. And that's why I say the church is where the gifts of healing are.
 
Did you miss any? As far as terms I've used about certain women...you missed toad, cadaver, banshee, devil, bag of bones, and ninny. None were used in reference to any female member of this forum, though.

I don't think I've ever referred to you with any term disparaging of a woman. [admin FSSL: clipped unnecessary derogatory question]
 
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Ekklesian said:
Just as well. Unless they're as outrageous as the conclusions you jump to, it would likely be a big disappointment.


You're thinking I'm the 'faith-healer' type. I've given you no reason to think that. But if you jump to that conclusion when I speak of the gifts of healing—that is, ministry—, or if I were to mention a verse like James 5:14, it may be your pendulum has swung too far to the faithless side.

I think the working out of those gifts are in the ministries of Christian Hospitals. Within driving distance from me there is St. Luke's, St. Joseph's, St. Mary's, Baptist Medical Center. Where are the Muslim hospitals? The Wiccan hospitals? Where are the Charles Darwin hospitals?

The fact is that the really helpful advances in medicine resulted from believing scientists and doctors. The one credited for developing anesthesia drew inspiration from the narrative of Adam's deep sleep when God opened his side to take a rib to form Eve. It was Pasteur's faith and Creationism that guided him in developing a pasteurization process and innoculation. I had a book at one time that contained quite an extensive list of advances that would not have happened without Christianity. I don't have it anymore.

A cursory internet search brought up some interesting reading.

creation.com

Modern medicine?

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.
creation.com creation.com
​
​
But you get the picture. I'm not saying prayers and fastings should not be offered up for the sick. Quite the contrary, it is a duty too often neglected. It's the duty of elders to pray for and visit the sick under their care. God has imposed that duty upon them. He hasn't imposed it upon atheists or pagans. And that's why I say the church is where the gifts of healing are.
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I’m no theologian, but I don’t see much here I’d consider objectionable. However, I think you have a way of setting up posts/threads on here that start off with that objectionable impression. I’m not sure if you intend it that way or not, but just my experience reading some of your posts.
 
Ekklesian said:
LOL. None of these are disparaging references.

Elastigirl was the stretchy superheroine in The Incredibles.

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anything other than calling a female by her name.... especially if you are not related to her.... can be considered derogatory and very innapropriate... ...and even more so when that name calling occurs in the midst of an argument....... fact is you have no respect for women and it shows in every post you make here where women might be concerned..... ..so save your lame explanations and cartoon videos.. . . even if you meant the term "elastigirl" in a good way it would have still been derogatory as it;s something i do not want to be called .... but you did not mean it in a good way.... ...you are just too dishonest and too cowardly to admit it.......


Ekklesian said:
Did you miss any? As far as terms I've used about certain women...you missed toad, cadaver, banshee, devil, bag of bones, and ninny. None were used in reference to any female member of this forum, though.
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you really don;t have to work this hard to prove to me you are the offspring of inbred knuckle draggers.. . i already knew that about you a long time ago..... ... but don;t worry.... that;s not derogatory... ... i;m sure somewhere in sub-saharan africa or some strange culture back in history - saying that about you would have been a compliment.... ;)..

Ekklesian said:
I don't think I've ever referred to you with any term disparaging of a woman. But how does her highness wish to be addressed?
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even in a sentence where you are trying to deny it you do it again........ you are really a sickening piece of work... .. you could have simply referred to me by my name..... unlike you ..with your fake moniker - aleshanee is my real middle name... . and it;s the one i chose to go by on this forum...... .... but it;s already too late for that now and i think you know it...... ..
 
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aleshanee said:
anything other than calling a female by her name.... especially if you are not related to her.... can be considered derogatory and very innapropriate...
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Yeah...whatever. As always you can expect the attitudes shown to me to be reciprocated.
 
Ekklesian said:
That first thread went off the rails, so I'll try again.
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On second thought, nah. I've just merged the two threads into the first one.

You don't get to proliferate threads or rename them willy-nilly just because you lost control of the conversation.
 
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I took the JNJ shot when it was widely available, four months later, I was feeling ill and was asked to take a home test figuring if it came out positive, I wouldn't be pestered to come into work for a few days. I was positive. Mrs. abcaines tested negative two days later. We stayed home for about five days, recovered, and went back to life.

Frankly, I have had more trouble with normal flu shots than I did with the JNJ vaccine. I don't plan to take anything else or get tested ever again because I think it was kinda useless. I've been told, "well you had milder symptoms because of that shot..." My answer is, "Oh yeah? Prove it."

I don't often choose to reveal my vaccination status because I hear it from both sides: "You're just the government's guinea pig" or I'm a "super spreader." I respect each person's position for themselves, though I think getting jabbed every six months is a little overboard.
 
My adult son was fully vaccinated living in the same house with me and was diagnosed with Covid twice. I have never been vaccinated and have never gotten it. The government lied when they said if you take the shot you don't have to worry about being infected with it. I haven't had a flu shot in 40 years because the virus is always changing with the professionals merely guessing what strain will evolve when they give out the shot. I have had the mumps, measles and chickenpox which was common when I was growing up but thankfully, I never had polio since I never received the vaccine until 1962. Real vaccines prevent diseases unlike the Covid "vaccine."
 
biscuit1953 said:
My adult son was fully vaccinated living in the same house with me and was diagnosed with Covid twice. I have never been vaccinated and have never gotten it. The government lied when they said if you take the shot you don't have to worry about being infected with it. I haven't had a flu shot in 40 years because the virus is always changing with the professionals merely guessing what strain will evolve when they give out the shot. I have had the mumps, measles and chickenpox which was common when I was growing up but thankfully, I never had polio since I never received the vaccine until 1962. Real vaccines prevent diseases unlike the Covid "vaccine."
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I’m by no means a vaccine advocate, but I can’t believe this disinformation is still being circulated around years later. No one reputable ever claimed that getting the vaccine prevented a person from getting COVID. What was said is that by getting the vaccine, it could lessen the effects of the virus. Now, whether that happened or not is ripe for debate, but please stop saying that getting the vaccine meant you couldn’t get the virus.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m by no means a vaccine advocate, but I can’t believe this disinformation is still being circulated around years later. No one reputable ever claimed that getting the vaccine prevented a person from getting COVID. What was said is that by getting the vaccine, it could lessen the effects of the virus. Now, whether that happened or not is ripe for debate, but please stop saying that getting the vaccine meant you couldn’t get the virus.
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They lied about the whole thing. The shots the government forced on American citizens weren't "vaccines" at all. They were shots that resulted in the deaths of many young people who dropped dead for no apparent reason. "Ultimately, the mRNA vaccines are an example for that cell and gene therapy," (Bayer executive Stefan Oelrich).
www.lifesitenews.com

Bayer executive: mRNA shots are ‘gene therapy’ marketed as ‘vaccines’ to gain public trust - LifeSite

‘We probably would have had a 95% refusal rate’ for these shots two years ago, but the pandemic and marketing of the injections as ‘vaccines’ has made them popular with the public, said Stefan Oelrich.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com

President Biden lied about it.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1570474213407850498
 
biscuit1953 said:
They lied about the whole thing. The shots the government forced on American citizens weren't "vaccines" at all. They were shots that resulted in the deaths of many young people who dropped dead for no apparent reason. "Ultimately, the mRNA vaccines are an example for that cell and gene therapy," (Bayer executive Stefan Oelrich).
www.lifesitenews.com

Bayer executive: mRNA shots are ‘gene therapy’ marketed as ‘vaccines’ to gain public trust - LifeSite

‘We probably would have had a 95% refusal rate’ for these shots two years ago, but the pandemic and marketing of the injections as ‘vaccines’ has made them popular with the public, said Stefan Oelrich.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com

President Biden lied about it.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1570474213407850498
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Whatever you say, Doc.
 
i have written about our covid lockdown experiences on 2 different forums since before the lockdowns began... since the spring of 2020 when we first learned about it.... ... there were many things about the lockdowns that came after that i thought were stupid and counter productive... and i wrote about them... .. but we never suspected the vaccines... ... and in fact all 9 people in this household took the first and second doses of the moderna vaccine.....

did it help us?.... i really don;t know.... but i do know that it didn;t hurt us.... ..

as well as taking the vaccine we also initiated our own household pandemic/epidemic protocols - that everyone in the house agreed to.... which involved minimal time out in public and N95 masks worn any time we were out.. . and social distancing by keeping at least 6 to 8 feet away from people in public and completely out of the vicinity of people who were coughing sneezing or looked ill in any other way.. .... as well as generous use of hand santizers which we all keep with us anyway

none of that was new things for us nor was it new for most people in hawaii.... it;s something we have done as a family anytime a tuberculosis or sars pandemic hit the islands.. ...which is more often than many people realize.... .many people in hawaii - mostly those fresh from asia and have been wearing masks in public long before this recent pandemic....

then in addition to all that we also started practicing a procedure of showers and decon any time we came back into the house... bagging and washing any clothes before they are worn again.... there were other various things we did that we;ve done before when the islands were at risk of epidemics..... ..and all but one member of the household agree to all of it.... he objected and laughed about it when he came back from overseas deployment ... but was told under no uncertain terms that if he didn;t agree to follow our rules he could spend the rest of his time on the island in the barracks on the navy base ...until the pandemic was over..... .... he quickly agreed to comply and follow our rules.... ......

and i already know what some people will say about all that..... but to this day not a single member of this 9 person household .... including him - has contracted covid....... over half the household works in the medical field in some way.... and others.. like me... have extensive medical training...... what we all learned and taught others in the house is that common sense and adherence to prinicple goes a long way to assure health and survival.... and lack of common sense is deadly....... ... so there it is......

.............

personally i think fauci belongs in prison for the way he mishandled his job in the government and also for the bad advice he gave president trump and others.... we knew from the start he was lying and didn;t follow much of what he said unless it matched what we already knew..... . .... i also think people who still to this day believe there is any such thing as herd immunity that can be developed this early to a virus that was intentionally manufactured in a lab as a weapon - and which the human body had never experienced before any time in history... are fooling themselves........

herd immunity might some day occur as a reult of present day covid but it won;t be in our lifetime.... if anything it will happen a few generations from now... in the meantime common sense and self preservation strategies should be a personal rule... but..... not everyone will think about it that way... .. there will always be some who fail to follow a strict regimen and get sick anyway... . and then they will loudly proclaim that because they got sick or had a bad experience then everybody else will to... or that some other thing established or commonly accepted about the virus and treatments is false........ ..i don;t listen to them... or even argue with them anymore... ... i just let them live in their own ignorance and misery.....

edit..... and by the way..... i am not saying that what we did would automatically work for everybody..... each familys situation is unique.... all i can say is that it worked for us and a modified version of it is still working now for the current tuberculosis epidemic... ...which in some ways is worse than covid... ...be careful out there....
 
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Both of my parents got an early strain of Covid, one ended up in the ICU and nearly died from it. Neither was vaccinated, but even if they’d wanted to be vaccinated, they got sick just a month or two before the vaccine was even available to the public. My mom hasn’t had good health since and she was in great shape before contracting Covid.

I had a friend in his early 40s die from Covid. He wasn’t vaccinated. Other than being overweight, I’m not aware of any underlying health conditions he had. He left behind a wife and three children.

Despite all of this, I held off on getting vaccinated for a very long time. I ultimately decided to get vaccinated, but only did one shot and decided against getting a second one. I did get Covid, but it was a very mild case. It’s very possible it was due to the fact that it was a later variant and had nothing to do with the jab, but maybe it was due to the vaccine. I have no way of knowing either way, so I don’t speculate.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
Both of my parents got an early strain of Covid, one ended up in the ICU and nearly died from it. Neither was vaccinated, but even if they’d wanted to be vaccinated, they got sick just a month or two before the vaccine was even available to the public. My mom hasn’t had good health since and she was in great shape before contracting Covid.

I had a friend in his early 40s die from Covid. He wasn’t vaccinated. Other than being overweight, I’m not aware of any underlying health conditions he had. He left behind a wife and three children.

Despite all of this, I held off on getting vaccinated for a very long time. I ultimately decided to get vaccinated, but only did one shot and decided against getting a second one. I did get Covid, but it was a very mild case. It’s very possible it was due to the fact that it was a later variant and had nothing to do with the jab, but maybe it was due to the vaccine. I have no way of knowing either way, so I don’t speculate.
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we knew some people here on the island who died from covid too... . ... some parts of the island got hit much harder than others and most of them lived out in the waianae area.... ..there was a whole family here that died from it.... ....that also happened before vaccine was available... ..

one of the people who died early in the pandemic was a bartender who worked in a place where people vaped and the air was always heavy with vape mist... ......that kind of aerosol in an enclosed space is known to be a major factor in transmitting tuberculosis... . so it made sense it would transmit covid too...... .a lot of people ended up with permanent disability and neurological damage from covid as well - and as far as i know none of them took the vaccine....

i am a firm believer china should be held respsonsible for all of this this and well as dr frankenstein fauci... and made to account for it.. .. ...the 2 room mates we have who came here from china long before the pandemic agree.. .....
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’m by no means a vaccine advocate, but I can’t believe this disinformation is still being circulated around years later. No one reputable ever claimed that getting the vaccine prevented a person from getting COVID. What was said is that by getting the vaccine, it could lessen the effects of the virus. Now, whether that happened or not is ripe for debate, but please stop saying that getting the vaccine meant you couldn’t get the virus.
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Don't look now, but your revisionism is showing.

The jabs were first touted as immunizations, and the drive behind the vax program was to develop 'herd immunity ' in the population. Not herd therapy. It was only after the ineffectiveness of the vaccines was manifest that the rhetoric changed to one of therapy.
 
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