Registered sex offenders and church attendance.

[Recovering IFB]

Number 1 , I never left you a nasty remark. My comment was everybody deserves a chance, what's nasty about that?
You go on about bad things happening to you, your mom being in prison and all that and I am sorry to hear that, but everybody has had something bad happen to them somewhere in life, it's called  the curse if Adam. We live in a sin filled world. Horrific things happen all over the place.
But Gods grace shines through and can change any heart, from a child predator to a simple person who is lost in their sin. God could use any body He wishes for His purposes. God forgives and is graceful to us sinner!
So call me names, I do love all of you here! And wish the best for all you!
BTW, I do know what I'm talking about here; when I was 14, I was sexually assaulted by a man who was just released from prison. I do know all the pain that goes with that and how it effects families,( my mother is still has problems with it to this day, 30 yrs later. I know the lesson of forgiveness that I am still dealing with today

Sometimes winning an argument means losing a person.  There are times when you can be right (and in this case I don't think you are, but that is beside the point) but in insisting that you are right you do more harm than good.  This is one of those times.  Just let it go.

I'm not saying I'm right, I just know what I am saying cause this is what God has shown me through my trials, I have no ill will towards anybody here. We are all sinners deserving of judgement as the next person.

 

[freelance_christian]

There are a thousand and one what if scenarios that we could explore, but I would ask you the same question: On what biblical grounds would you exclude a repentant sex offender from your church? Ministering grace to sinners is dirty work.

Knock yourself out.  If I am going to err on the matter, it will be with a view of protecting the vulnerable in the church.  The child molestor should be castrated and jailed for life, at a minimum, and this wouldn't be an issue.  But if they are released, they can find fellowship through home Bible studies and a variety of other ways that doesn't cause more harm to the people they have already scarred for life.

First off, I mentioned specifically "registered sex offenders", not "child molesters". The terms are not synonymous. Secondly, what I am looking for is biblical warrant for not ministering to the worst among us. I'm not saying it is easy or glamorous, but we have a mandate to minister to everyone who reaches out to us, without giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed sincere. I have a step-daughter who was a victim of molestation at a young age, so I don't take this position lightly or without hesitation in my flesh.

 

[freelance_christian]

I am aware of your situation as I have been involved in the various iterations of the FFF over a period of years, and I  admit that it is a hard balance, but is also a reality that we must face in the church of the 21st Century. No offense to your or any other victim of abuse is intended. My step-daughter is a victim of abuse, and I am quite aware of the difficulties that haunt her in her life.

Does your church have a policy regarding attendance of registered sex offenders?
A few months ago, we discovered that one was attending our services. He is a 72 year old man convicted of raping a 23 year old (with the mental capacity of a 5 year old) repeatedly over a 12 month period. He served prison time and is now registered and on probation.
Our policy, along with the laws in NC, lead us to ask him NOT to attend services.
Some of our Pastors and Deacons felt remorse over the decision.

Do you have a policy...if not, imo you should...and what does it contain?

How exactly do you justify this biblically? 1 Corinthians 6 makes it clear that the church is not comprised of just the best of us, but also the worst among us, including the sexually immoral. If this man is repentant then he has the right to fellowship with the church. Granted, the church should have someone monitor this man the entire time he is in attendance, and he would be limited in his capacity to serve in the church, but exclusion is hardly a biblical response to this situation. If he is truly repentant, he will welcome the accountability. He should also have regular contact and accountability with the ministerial staff throughout the week. We had two registered sex offenders in our church, a male and a female, in somewhat regular attendance, and that is how we handled it. Neither of them could bear the constant monitoring and accountability, and they left.

freelance christian, that's the rub...constant monitoring and accountability.  Somehow, I doubt that most churches will actually do the follow-through to protect their other members.  Goodness, at my church, we have a hard time getting people to make sure the doors are locked!  Personally, I'd rather stand before my God and explain why I excluded a sexual predator from my church than to explain why I didn't...

So God will give us a pass because we are too lazy to minister to the worst among us? Somehow I doubt that will be the case...

do you think it;s easy to deal with the victims of your beloved perpetrators?.... ask the very few churches who actually do try to do it.... ....  it;s much easier to deal with the "reformed" perverts... that;s why so many churches today are so willing to go that route than there are willing to work with the victims.. . . ....  .. 

perverts whether "reformed" or not are often very charming... with outgoing personalities... getting along with everybody.. willing to do what ever it takes and put on any kind of front necessary to fit in and be accepted..... people are always commenting on what nice guys they are.. ...

but those of us who were abused by them are broken... with thousands of razor sharp edges.... . . some of us are even mentally ill.. . or depending on who you ask here ..demon possessed.. .. .  it;s very messy to deal with us... .. and we don;t come across as nice or as charming as the "reformed" perpetrators do...  and unlike the perps (who always love to be around us)..  we don;t like to be in the company of the same kind of person who ruined our lives...  and we often react very badly when we are forced to be....  ..  that;s why so few churches attempt to do have a ministry geared toward victims.. .. ...  and why so many act like they would rather just see us kill ourselves and be done with it.. . . give them a dead victim to lament rather than a broken survivor to care for.. ... .

you are the lazy one... . . along with every other pseudo shepherd who pretends he can make the wolves behave when the reality is he is just too lazy to guard the sheep... .. . do you think God will give you a pass for making a pet of the creature He commissioned you to guard his sheep from?...  ... i think you will answer to Him for why you fed His sheep to it.. .. along with many others who are keeping you company... 

 

[ALAYMAN]

First off, I mentioned specifically "registered sex offenders", not "child molesters". The terms are not synonymous.

A distinction with very little difference.  Syphilis, or chlamydia, take your pick.

Secondly, what I am looking for is biblical warrant for not ministering to the worst among us. I'm not saying it is easy or glamorous, but we have a mandate to minister to everyone who reaches out to us, without giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed sincere. I have a step-daughter who was a victim of molestation at a young age, so I don't take this position lightly or without hesitation in my flesh.

Well, since you have somebody affected, by all means you must be an expert and I defer to your anecdotal experience.

The Biblical warrant is, wait for it, .....







"be wise as serpents and harmless as doves".


Works for me, and I don't lose any sleep at night.

 

[freelance_christian]

First off, I mentioned specifically "registered sex offenders", not "child molesters". The terms are not synonymous.

A distinction with very little difference.  Syphilis, or chlamydia, take your pick.

Secondly, what I am looking for is biblical warrant for not ministering to the worst among us. I'm not saying it is easy or glamorous, but we have a mandate to minister to everyone who reaches out to us, without giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are indeed sincere. I have a step-daughter who was a victim of molestation at a young age, so I don't take this position lightly or without hesitation in my flesh.

Well, since you have somebody affected, by all means you must be an expert and I defer to your anecdotal experience.

The Biblical warrant is, wait for it, .....







"be wise as serpents and harmless as doves".


Works for me, and I don't lose any sleep at night.

Works for you, but doesn't actually do anything to support your position. But whatever helps you "sleep at night". Lol.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Works for you, but doesn't actually do anything to support your position. But whatever helps you "sleep at night". Lol.

Yes, it helps me sleep at night knowing that I won't be an gullible accomplice to facilitating sexual predators in their endeavors to make more exploits by preying on my boy or children I have spiritual responsibility for protecting.  But again, in your ivory abstract tower, invite the perverts to your house of worship.  My conscience won't be held captive to your scruples.

 

[Frag]

Yes, it helps me sleep at night knowing that I won't be an gullible accomplice to facilitating sexual predators in their endeavors to make more exploits by preying on my boy or children I have spiritual responsibility for protecting.  But again, in your ivory abstract tower, invite the perverts to your house of worship.  My conscience won't be held captive to your scruples.

Amen! 

 

[Recovering IFB]

Recovering IFB

Number 1 , I never left you a nasty remark. My comment was everybody deserves a chance, what's nasty about that?
........

for your info all karma comments are public record.. . everybody can see what you said and how you said it by clicking the link on the main page.. . ..... to me... combined with a red mark.. .your comment came across as nasty.. ..

That wasnt meant to be nasty, I just disagreed with you, no ill will whatsoever...
and if that is true.. . then you of all people should understand why someone who was subjected to such perpetrators, continuously, for 4 years from the age of 5...  and now lives with permanent disabilities because of it.. .. would not want to sit in the same church with them ..... 

[/quote]
And I can understand your point of view, my incident was a one time deal. I still replay it almost everyday, which caused me to become something in my life that brought me great sorrow.....

but the fact that you can;t understand it...  shows  you really have no idea what it;s like to be me.. .. you only know what it;s like being you.... 

and you dont know what its like being me,....

  and the fact you choose to lecture them with red marks over those differences, and for not being as comfortable yet around such perpetrators as you have become...... shows that for a guy who tries to lecture others about grace...... you really don;t know much about it yourself......  ... do you..... ..

I am growing in grace and need to grow more in with God's help. Do you know forgiveness?

i did not lie...  you told me they should be given a chance... and i remember very well what happened to me when i gave them chances....to me your remark came across very nasty ... as do you.. ...  . i said nothing to deserve red mark from you or anyone else.... . but if you want to be the champion of perverts and child molesters go right ahead... . i;m sure you;ll find plenty of help among a few of your friends here.... like i said... they seem to be coming out of the wood work for you on this topic.. ..  nothing else seems to have hit them.. or you..  so close to home.....

1. This is appearing to be about you getting your first red mark which I think your offended by,
2. I never said to "champion" for perverts which you are accusing me of, so your lying, again.

I really pray that you can find peace someday in your heart over this. It took me 30+ years and am not finished with it yet, I still need time. But, i don't let it define me either. I praise Christ for that! God will judge and redeem who He wills, lets praise Him for that, can we?

 

[Frag]

This is appearing to be about you getting your first red mark which I think your offended by,

Stop.  Ok?

Disengage.  Go find another thread.  Find someone else to hassle.  You have no idea what this girl has gone through.

Seriously.  Stop. 

 

[Agent P]

We have one registered sex offender, and prior, we had one that attended for a while.
Our church is set up to follow the biblical model for church so we don't offer the opportunities that
allow for them that opportunity to molest.

It would need to take place outside of church. And phoning the probation officer to ensure there are no restrictions to them attending also takes place (if they have one) as samspade indicated. If they need to use the restroom, then they are accompanied by someone.

Our kids are watched by everyone. Scripture doesn't allow us to exclude them, honestly, EVEN if there are legalities which forbid it, it can be worked out. I understand the desire to exclude them, sometimes I feel similarly. Obviously they do not sit near the kids( except if the family sits near them, and they'd be visitors)

I can usually smell them from a mile away. I've been on all sides of the issue so it's quite comfortable for me to have them present BUT...I have no qualms kicking them out if they do not follow the strict guidelines.. We also offer them a one on one home bible study, as others suggested here. alongside our usual weekly study. They need constant monitoring, folks dropping by their home on a regularly scheduled basis. Supporting them, monitoring them, keeps society at large, safe. Just like adultery or any other sex perversion, it is more likely to occur when they are stressed out.

I think the conditions around the registration on the sex offenders list needs to be investigated as well.  Not all sex offenders are created equal.  The ones who abuse young children or sexually assault ANYONE, these are the ones who need to have these fences placed on them.
There are others who find themselves on the sex offenders list merely because "she TOLD me she was 18!"  If that indeed is the fact, such knuckleheads need a little wall-to-wall counseling, but can likely be trusted in the fellowship of the church.  (Check it out for sure though, as has been mentioned, sex offenders can be very manipulative.)
But those questions need to be asked before the fact, not after the offender's been there awhile.  Once that disclosure has been made, there needs to be some IMMEDIATE action taken for the protection of the congregation, on a case by case basis.

Case in point, my family joined a small church. (Less than 20 people) One of the elders had his shirt sleeves rolled up and had a tattoo of a naked woman.  I commented to the pastor that perhaps this guy should wear long sleeves in church.  The pastor responded in such a way that this guy's tattoos were the least of his problems.
I said, "What do you mean?" at which point the pastor's eyes got real big and said, "Nobody told you guys?"
I said, "No."
He said, "Elder so-and-so is on the sex offender registry for fondling his granddaughter.  That's why I try to shut him down when he makes prayer requests for the people in his 'support group'.  As it is, he's not allowed to work with the kids."
That was the Sunday we stopped making our daughter go to church with us, while we held out to support the pastor until the church finally imploded and closed its doors a couple of months later...As it was, my daughter knew the victim, having inherited her uniform when she joined the color guard in high school.

 

[Recovering IFB]

This is appearing to be about you getting your first red mark which I think your offended by,

Stop.  Ok?

Disengage.  Go find another thread.  Find someone else to hassle.  You have no idea what this girl has gone through.

Seriously.  Stop.

your right, I have no idea what she has gone through. I was just relaying to her that others,such as myself has been through something similar
,

[size=12pt]why do you continue to call me a liar?....  do you know the difference in misunderstanding a poorly stated position..(misspelled in the first place). ...then questioning you about it?....  and a deliberate misrepresentation of the truth?... ... to champion something is to take up it;s cause.. . i assumed that is what you were doing based on your own words.... if my assumption was wrong then it was wrong.. .  but it was not an attempt to lie....

ok. I can accept that

and you are to be commended for not allowing your past to define you. .. . may i assume, based on what you have said, that you didn;t suffer any great disability .. either mental or physical.. that prevents you from living a normal life?.. ..  or a near normal one at least?.. ...

actually it is more mental than physical, I still struggle from time to time with issues,(rage) It took many years to come to a point where I had to forgive the individual, (not driving around at night looking for him, with a weapon for instance) and move on and trust in Jesus grace....

and yes... i didn;t appreciate getting a red mark by you for something not adressed to you that wasn;t anywhere near as caustic a comment as i have endured from others myself here without giving red marks... and which i see thrown around on this forum every day.... even by yourself... you may not have meant it as ill will but it came across that way none the less... ..

I give red and green marks according to post, not individual, you can see I actually gave a green to Ozzy last week, to show Im even handed

 

[graceandtruth]

I here you guys loud and clear.  I also understand that state laws must be obeyed.

Samspade made a good point that salvation should cause us to care for others but doesn't this go both ways?

I am looking for the biblical sanction in this "private" versus corporate ministry model offered.  If someone chose this model for convenience most of us would consider this unacceptable but for our convenience it becomes the model of choice.

I know there were some that were upset by the comparison of Saul prior to salvation to sex offenders but I am sure that Stephen's family was not happy with the decision to include Paul in the membership of the Church and not only that but recognize him as an Apostle and his writings as Holy Scripture.  It appears that no option was given to those who didn't like it and the first church split had not occurred yet so there was no Second __________ Church to move to. 

So again I understand the human angst.  I understand the concern for those who have been victims of the sin in question but I do not see where the Bible disqualifies those who engage in sexual sins from particular ministries but I do see where the perverts in Corinth were declared to be washed, sanctified, and justified.  I am not having trouble with the human reasoning for exclusion but I am having a problem finding biblical sanction for exclusion of sex offenders but not murderers, muggers, carjackers, etc.  I would assume that a person who has had someone kill their family member would have a problem with a murderer attending and participating in ministry as well.  So where do we draw the line of exclusion and what is our guide.

Thanks for the answers and understanding.

I spoke with my wife about this topic because she was molested as a child repeatedly over several years.  I wanted to know what her perspective was on this considering her experience and the fact that we have 7 children that are 12 to 1 years old.  I know how attentive she is to anyone around the children and I was some what surprised when she said that there was no biblical warrant for exclusion for these people.  Here response was "How will they get saved and grow as Christians if they are excluded from the church?" 

I hear everyone on the danger of repetition but is anyone taking into consideration the supernatural change that results from salvation or is salvation simply being viewed as a change of lifestyle?  I hear everyone on the "responsibility" to respect the victims of sin but what about the responsibility to embrace brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of their past sins? 

I have included my previous post because no one has spoke to the victims and families of victims of Saul's murders and imprisoning and their failure to exclude Paul from
the church's fellowship.  I understand the human reaction but I don't think we have a biblical pattern for this cultural reaction. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

I spoke with my wife about this topic because she was molested as a child repeatedly over several years.  I wanted to know what her perspective was on this considering her experience and the fact that we have 7 children that are 12 to 1 years old.  I know how attentive she is to anyone around the children and I was some what surprised when she said that there was no biblical warrant for exclusion for these people.  Here response was "How will they get saved and grow as Christians if they are excluded from the church?"

By heeding the Scriptures, and being washed by the word.

How do folks grow in the Lord in house churches?

I hear everyone on the danger of repetition but is anyone taking into consideration the supernatural change that results from salvation or is salvation simply being viewed as a change of lifestyle?  I hear everyone on the "responsibility" to respect the victims of sin but what about the responsibility to embrace brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of their past sins? 

That supernatural change, if it has taken place in reality, will guarantee that the Spirit will sanctify them in the truth, for Thy word is truth.  That truth can be taught and discipled in a small group study, where the victims won't have to be traumatized and where the offender can get the care and feeding he/she needs.

I have included my previous post because no one has spoke to the victims and families of victims of Saul's murders and imprisoning and their failure to exclude Paul from
the church's fellowship.  I understand the human reaction but I don't think we have a biblical pattern for this cultural reaction.

As others have said, I don't think the dynamic is analagous for Saul as it is for sexual predators.

 

[graceandtruth]

I spoke with my wife about this topic because she was molested as a child repeatedly over several years.  I wanted to know what her perspective was on this considering her experience and the fact that we have 7 children that are 12 to 1 years old.  I know how attentive she is to anyone around the children and I was some what surprised when she said that there was no biblical warrant for exclusion for these people.  Here response was "How will they get saved and grow as Christians if they are excluded from the church?"

By heeding the Scriptures, and being washed by the word.

How do folks grow in the Lord in house churches?

I hear everyone on the danger of repetition but is anyone taking into consideration the supernatural change that results from salvation or is salvation simply being viewed as a change of lifestyle?  I hear everyone on the "responsibility" to respect the victims of sin but what about the responsibility to embrace brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of their past sins? 

That supernatural change, if it has taken place in reality, will guarantee that the Spirit will sanctify them in the truth, for Thy word is truth.  That truth can be taught and discipled in a small group study, where the victims won't have to be traumatized and where the offender can get the care and feeding he/she needs.

I have included my previous post because no one has spoke to the victims and families of victims of Saul's murders and imprisoning and their failure to exclude Paul from
the church's fellowship.  I understand the human reaction but I don't think we have a biblical pattern for this cultural reaction.

As others have said, I don't think the dynamic is analagous for Saul as it is for sexual predators.

You don't think that Stephen's family was troubled by the fact that Paul was accepted as an apostle and his writings were equated to Scripture after he had been part of the group that killed Stephen?

So do you also advise people that do not want to be part of a church because of the inconvenience to simply meet with friends at home instead of interacting with a local church?

I am still waiting for the biblical sanction for this line of thinking.  I understand the human reasoning but I still do not see the biblical sanction for this.  I am sure the gentile churches had rampant sexual perversion but yet Scripture does not indicate anyone is to be excluded from the gathering of the churches for sins that have been repented of. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

You don't think that Stephen's family was troubled by the fact that Paul was accepted as an apostle and his writings were equated to Scripture after he had been part of the group that killed Stephen?

I'm sure they did, but I do think that the ability of an adult to reason and come to a place of trust based on real observable evidence is a bit more plausible than forcing a child to face up to the fears and horrors that molestation place on them when they are regularly confronted in worship by the individual (or type of individual) that caused their harm.

So do you also advise people that do not want to be part of a church because of the inconvenience to simply meet with friends at home instead of interacting with a local church?

I don't think it is a fair characterization to call "meeting with friends at home" the same thing as a house church.  If the house church meets minimal NT marks to of a true church then that is their choice.  Of course my point was that there is not a specified minimum number of people in the Bible which dictates the ability for a person to experience corporate worship.

I am still waiting for the biblical sanction for this line of thinking.  I understand the human reasoning but I still do not see the biblical sanction for this.  I am sure the gentile churches had rampant sexual perversion but yet Scripture does not indicate anyone is to be excluded from the gathering of the churches for sins that have been repented of.

"Sexual perversion" of a consensual nature is not the same as rape of a child IMHO.

 

[graceandtruth]

You don't think that Stephen's family was troubled by the fact that Paul was accepted as an apostle and his writings were equated to Scripture after he had been part of the group that killed Stephen?

I'm sure they did, but I do think that the ability of an adult to reason and come to a place of trust based on real observable evidence is a bit more plausible than forcing a child to face up to the fears and horrors that molestation place on them when they are regularly confronted in worship by the individual (or type of individual) that caused their harm.

So do you also advise people that do not want to be part of a church because of the inconvenience to simply meet with friends at home instead of interacting with a local church?

I don't think it is a fair characterization to call "meeting with friends at home" the same thing as a house church.  If the house church meets minimal NT marks to of a true church then that is their choice.  Of course my point was that there is not a specified minimum number of people in the Bible which dictates the ability for a person to experience corporate worship.

I am still waiting for the biblical sanction for this line of thinking.  I understand the human reasoning but I still do not see the biblical sanction for this.  I am sure the gentile churches had rampant sexual perversion but yet Scripture does not indicate anyone is to be excluded from the gathering of the churches for sins that have been repented of.

"Sexual perversion" of a consensual nature is not the same as rape of a child IMHO.

I agree totally with your statement in bold.  However, I think we would be grossly underestimating the debauchery of the Roman system of slavery to assume that it did not have the same unsavory rape of women and children slaves that American slavery had.

I don't think that you can be sure that Stephen had no children that witnessed their father's death and then later were in a position to attend a church with and know that Paul has been accepted as an apostle.  I would assume that there were also children of the other people that Paul jailed and was responsible for the possible deaths of as well that were in attendance at the same church with Paul.

I am simply saying that without biblical warrant we would be seen as hypocritical when we exclude people for certain sins and not for others.  What makes homosexuality a greater sin than carjacking?  What makes a 19 year old who has sex with his 16 year old girlfriend when the parents allowed her to go to prom with subject to exclusion from the church while the one convicted of domestic violence can repent and be accepted without question?  How do we explain this when someone asks for our biblical authority and we have none.  I think saying, "We choose to protect victims of certain sins from those who have ever committed those sins even if they did not victimize the people in question by excluding those who commit these sins from full inclusion in the church and exposure to the Gospel while other victims of other sins just have to get over it" would be seen as hypocritical especially when we have no biblical warrant. 

I believe the person should be monitored but I do not see a biblical warrant for exclusion.  Perhaps like Philemon who God gave an opportunity to repent of his enslaving another person and Onesimus who God gave an opportunity to forgive a person who had wronged him by denying his equal humanity God can use these situations to form Christ in both the sinner and the one sinned against.  Perhaps I may be overestimating Christ's power through the Gospel to heal completely and restore completely in every situation. 

 

[freelance_christian]

Works for you, but doesn't actually do anything to support your position. But whatever helps you "sleep at night". Lol.

Yes, it helps me sleep at night knowing that I won't be an gullible accomplice to facilitating sexual predators in their endeavors to make more exploits by preying on my boy or children I have spiritual responsibility for protecting.  But again, in your ivory abstract tower, invite the perverts to your house of worship.  My conscience won't be held captive to your scruples.

That's all well and good -- in fact, it is probably a popular opinion. What I am looking for is an actual scriptural mandate for excluding them. Also, why do you assume that I am gullible for suggesting that we should minister to these people? You seem bent on being abrasive rather than having an honest exchange of ideas.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Works for you, but doesn't actually do anything to support your position. But whatever helps you "sleep at night". Lol.

Yes, it helps me sleep at night knowing that I won't be an gullible accomplice to facilitating sexual predators in their endeavors to make more exploits by preying on my boy or children I have spiritual responsibility for protecting.  But again, in your ivory abstract tower, invite the perverts to your house of worship.  My conscience won't be held captive to your scruples.

That's all well and good -- in fact, it is probably a popular opinion. What I am looking for is an actual scriptural mandate for excluding them. Also, why do you assume that I am gullible for suggesting that we should minister to these people? You seem bent on being abrasive rather than having an honest exchange of ideas.

Some people here feel that certain crimes are worthy of death with no chance of at least, of God redeeming them. We are all worthy of death and hell for our own sins against God, some people think theirs are not that bad, I guess.

 

[lnf]

Works for you, but doesn't actually do anything to support your position. But whatever helps you "sleep at night". Lol.

Yes, it helps me sleep at night knowing that I won't be an gullible accomplice to facilitating sexual predators in their endeavors to make more exploits by preying on my boy or children I have spiritual responsibility for protecting.  But again, in your ivory abstract tower, invite the perverts to your house of worship.  My conscience won't be held captive to your scruples.

That's all well and good -- in fact, it is probably a popular opinion. What I am looking for is an actual scriptural mandate for excluding them. Also, why do you assume that I am gullible for suggesting that we should minister to these people? You seem bent on being abrasive rather than having an honest exchange of ideas.

Some people here feel that certain crimes are worthy of death with no chance of at least, of God redeeming them. We are all worthy of death and hell for our own sins against God, some people think theirs are not that bad, I guess.

I do not believe that God cannot or will not redeem any sin.  What I do believe is that there is, many times, an earthly price to pay...whether or not God has forgiven the sin. 

While I do not think child molesters and other sexual predators should be invited into a mixed body of believers (any typical church), I also do not believe I would be the least bit upset if I met them in Heaven.  But, while they are on earth, the earthly price may include a limiting of fellowship opportunities that can be found at a typical Sunday morning church service.  There are other perfectly acceptable ways to minister to sex offenders.  Many have already been mentioned in this very thread, so I won't repeat them in this post.

I will liken my thoughts on this with something quite personal to me...I am the Finance Director for my church.  If I were to ever embezzle or otherwise misappropriate funds, even if I were truly repentant and paid back every penny, I would not expect that anybody would ever trust me to handle their money again, this side of Heaven...but I can still expect to go to Heaven...and there are other ways that I might effectively serve my church.

In closing, I believe we should first consider the people who are already members of the body of our churches.  We do not live in a perfect world, therefore, any course of action we take to balance forgiveness of repentant sin with the need of current members to feel safe and welcome will not be perfect, either.  But let the onus be upon the victimizers, not the victims.         

 

[ALAYMAN]

That's all well and good -- in fact, it is probably a popular opinion. What I am looking for is an actual scriptural mandate for excluding them. Also, why do you assume that I am gullible for suggesting that we should minister to these people? You seem bent on being abrasive rather than having an honest exchange of ideas.

I apologize for my harsh tone.

There isn't an explicit verse that says "forbid molesters from the assembly", just like there isn't an explicit verse that says "don't do cocaine recreationally".  Inferences have been made from Biblical principles.  Much like people argue for paedo-baptism from inferences, and many people disagree with them (myself included), intelligent people come to conscientious different opinions on the mode and purpose.  You're convinced that we ought to do the dirty ministry with molestors, rapists, and pedophiles.  I'm convinced they can serve the Lord in tailored ministries effectively while preserving the sanity and safety of the vulnerable in the congregation.  Nothing in Scripture, whether inference, or common sense derived from principle would seem to convince you otherwise, as many suggestions have already been offered in that regard to no avail, so do what you think best, but don't be surprised that your indignation isn't persuasive for those of us who are bound in our conscience that we are doing the right thing for them and the victims.