Registered sex offenders and church attendance.

[Recovering IFB]

I'm still not putting God in a box!! I know God can change lives. The pervert has to want to change.

Was Paul seeking change in his life on the road to Damascus?

Well, that really didn't answer the question.  Is God "bloodthirsty" for commanding the ministers of the state to bear the sword (kill evil doers) in order to restrain evil?

I answered it, sorry it wasn't what you were looking for, God handing out judgement is Him rendering judgement, He is God, He can do that, sorry your reasoning is marred by sin and you cant see that God does things beyond your comprehension sometimes.

And could you point to anyplace in this thread where people have been gleeful or taken pleasure in the death of the wicked?

Not in this particular thread but check here:
http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/i'm-proud-to-live-in-america/

Well, the fact that you think that child rape is the same as overeating at a potluck dinner in terms of the human consequences and risk/effects shows more than you should care about your inability to properly reason.  By your rationale, the pastor who cuckolds his flock like Davey Boy Hyles should be "forgiven" and restored to the pastorate "70 X 7".

Admittedly I wouldn't  mind an obese person watching my kids, but what fascinates me is that you fail to see the consequences of your sinful actions and are dismissive of such...

 

[Recovering IFB]

God pardons sin and dispenses grace....the church can practice forgiveness and grace, but...
I don't think grace and forgiveness mean forgive and forget....Adam was forgiven, but wasn't allowed back into the Garden.
Samson was forgiven but lost his eyesight...and his life.
Lot was forgiven but lost his family...in more than one way.

Absolutely, David was never the same after his fall with Bathsheba... after God forgives, we still need to deal with the consequences of our sins... always teaching myself, and my boys that...

 

[ALAYMAN]

I could point to plenty of places on this forum where people are quite gleeful about the death of of the wicked. I could point to places on this very thread where people have called for the torture of the wicked.

I wasn't talking to you, but here's the salient question that you and he avoids...



Well, that really didn't answer the question.  Is God "bloodthirsty" for commanding the ministers of the state to bear the sword (kill evil doers) in order to restrain evil?

I didn't see where he said this at all.

I'm sure you didn't, because you often see things in a uniquely oblique and intentionally obtuse way.  Your track record is well established.

But, we can play by your rules...where does the Bible say we should exclude anyone from fellowship for specific sins?

How is the child rapist being excluded from fellowship when he is offered tailored ministry to accomplish this very purpose?  Obfuscate much?  Like moving the goalposts?

forgiveness ≠ given a pulpit

Forgiveness does not mean foolishly putting unnecessary risk on vulnerable segments of the flock that God entrusts to the undershepherd.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I answered it, sorry it wasn't what you were looking for, God handing out judgement is Him rendering judgement, He is God,

Are you denying that in Romans 13 God commands the government to use lethal force to restrain evil?

Not in this particular thread but check here:
http://www.fundamentalforums.org/the-fighting-forum/i'm-proud-to-live-in-america/

So the answer is "no", nobody in this thread who would use reasonable precautions to protect innocent and vulnerable sheep has similarly spoken of how we ought to cheer on the executioner's axe for child rapists.  Glad you are able to have some modicum of intellectual honesty.  8)

Admittedly I wouldn't  mind an obese person watching my kids, but what fascinates me is that you fail to see the consequences of your sinful actions and are dismissive of such...

Really?  Serious?  Where in the world have I said that my sins aren't heinous to God?  Where have I sought to be dismissive of my own potential or real sin? 

Could it be that you are comparing apples to oranges?  Making stuff up?  Maybe you failed to distinguish the categories of what was said.  All sin is infinitely heinous and worthy of the death penalty in God's eyes, but if you think that the human consequences and ramifications of littering, or a saying a curse word are the same as raping a child, you have a serious comprehension and reasoning problem.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Are you denying that in Romans 13 God commands the government to use lethal force to restrain evil?

Again, I answered you here:

God handing out judgement and believers cheering for the death of those under judgement are two different things, remember God takes no pleasure in it.

God is holy and righteous, He does what He sees fits and uses government to punish criminals, As believers, I think it is in bad taste, to cheer or call for the castration( as you did in reply 23) when we are to be reflecting Christ's mercy.

So the answer is "no", nobody in this thread who would use reasonable precautions to protect innocent and vulnerable sheep has similarly spoken of how we ought to cheer on the executioner's axe for child rapists.  Glad you are able to have some modicum of intellectual honesty.  8)

Again, see reply 23 to this post, your words;The child molestor should be castrated and jailed for life, at a minimum, and this wouldn't be an issue.

If you were not cheering, why bring this up?

Could it be that you are comparing apples to oranges?  Making stuff up?  Maybe you failed to distinguish the categories of what was said.  All sin is infinitely heinous and worthy of the death penalty in God's eyes, but if you think that the human consequences and ramifications of littering, or a saying a curse word are the same as raping a child, you have a serious comprehension and reasoning problem.

By your very sins are the same that Christ died for! Luke 18:
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
Again, I am blown away how people who have knowledge in Christ, dont see themselves as we actually are, sinners saved by grace. Knowing this, your heart should be tendered towards the lost, yes, even sexual predators, because Christ died for them too! Freelance Christian posted Ministering grace to sinners is dirty work.
He hit the nail right on the head.

 

[Biker]

The grace shown by many in this thread is inspiring

Paul's instruction about sexual deviants attending Church Services helps guide us
The Church at Corinth was involved in various sins including homosexuality, adultery, fornication etc...Paul calls out one specific person

1 Cor 5:1 It is commonly reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife. KJV

Commonly - Ὅλως Holōs. Everywhere. A matter of common fame. It is so public that it cannot be concealed; and so certain that it cannot be denied. Even the pagan would not justify or tolerate a man sleeping with his Fathers wife; and, therefore, the report had spread not only in the churches, but even among the pagan

Just like our Pagans/Unbelieving Community abhorrs child molesting, the Pagan Community at Corinth felt the same about a man involved in an affair with his stepmom. Sin so depraved it shook even their sensibilities.  FTR, Paul never labels anyone. Or calls them unsaved.  Fornicators, Adulterers, Homosexuals are labels applied to the unsaved. Since they heed Paul's rebuke,they are Saints. His latter letter to the church evidences this.

5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.5:3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed

Paul's grieved… over their lack of morning…that a man in church will be taken from their midst.

 

[Biker]

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Paul commands we  judge those whom we have authority over. We do not judge visitors but church members. Hence why the man involved in unspeakable sexual acts in Corinth was judged then purged from their midst. Unsaved individuals are offended by scripture. Wolves are defined as False Teachers/Counterfeit Apostles, including by Paul.
.

Inplimenting restrictions to kept he flock safe is imperative though it is not clearly address in Paul's letters since he is addressing the saved. Unbelievers are offended by scripture so the easies way to deter dangerous predators is to preach topical sermons instead of heeding the text (known as Expository Preaching).

1st letter to Corinth by Paul

1 Cor 5: 3-5 5:1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
5:2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
5:3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
5:6  Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
5:7  Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
5:9  I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
5:10  Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
5:12  For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
5:13  But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[Biker]

Paul’s Joy Over the Church’s Repentance

2Make room for us in your hearts. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have exploited no one. 3I do not say this to condemn you; I have said before that you have such a place in our hearts that we would live or die with you. 4I have spoken to you with great frankness; I take great pride in you. I am greatly encouraged; in all our troubles my joy knows no bounds.
5For when we came into Macedonia, we had no rest, but we were harassed at every turn—conflicts on the outside, fears within. 6But God, who comforts the downcast, comforted us by the coming of Titus, 7and not only by his coming but also by the comfort you had given him. He told us about your longing for me, your deep sorrow, your ardent concern for me, so that my joy was greater than ever.
8Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. 12So even though I wrote to you, it was neither on account of the one who did the wrong nor on account of the injured party, but rather that before God you could see for yourselves how devoted to us you are. 13By all this we are encouraged.
In addition to our own encouragement, we were especially delighted to see how happy Titus was, because his spirit has been refreshed by all of you. 14I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well. 15And his affection for you is all the greater when he remembers that you were all obedient, receiving him with fear and trembling. 16I am glad I can have complete confidence in you.


more from Paul

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them . 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by crafty words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.


.

 

[T-Bone]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

 

[kaba]

I agree T-Bone.

 

[Recovering IFB]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

Nobody has said that at all.. As I have said from the beginning, they should be monitored. I have also let you all in on a family secret about me. I now have children of my own, you think I am going to do that?
You want to read into whatever you want, it's not what anybody has been saying. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Again, I answered you here:

God handing out judgement and believers cheering for the death of those under judgement are two different things, remember God takes no pleasure in it.



God is holy and righteous, He does what He sees fits and uses government to punish criminals, As believers, I think it is in bad taste, to cheer or call for the castration( as you did in reply 23) when we are to be reflecting Christ's mercy.

No, you are backtracking and decontextualizing now, squirming out of what you originally said, which <in regards to the death penalty re-emphasized by God> was this...

No, I think the government should abolish the death penalty. I am not bloodthirsty enough anymore in my life to see anyone put to death for their crimes. God doesn't rejoice in it, I don't see why fellow believers get excited by it.

Your aversion to the death penalty colors your opinion of the matter.  God clearly authorizes the state to righteously restrain evil by the sword.  Any Christian who recognizes that there may be circumstances whereby death is called for in the event of restraint of evil is not necessarily "bloodthirsty", but rather simply acknowledging that God has instituted protection of society through the agency of government. 

Are you suggesting that God righteously called for government sanction of the death penalty but calls all Christians to be against what He has called for?


[quote author=Recovering IFB]
Again, see reply 23 to this post, your words;The child molestor should be castrated and jailed for life, at a minimum, and this wouldn't be an issue.

If you were not cheering, why bring this up?
[/quote]

ummm, because it is already law in many parts of our republic, and around the world?  Because it is a means to ensure that their sexual appetite for things that are heinous is dampened?  Because God said it is appropriate to restrain evil? Do you need any more reasons?

By your very sins are the same that Christ died for! Luke 18:
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
Again, I am blown away how people who have knowledge in Christ, dont see themselves as we actually are, sinners saved by grace. Knowing this, your heart should be tendered towards the lost, yes, even sexual predators, because Christ died for them too! Freelance Christian posted Ministering grace to sinners is dirty work.
He hit the nail right on the head.

No, he mixed metaphors, compared apples to oranges.  Nobody is suggesting that pedophiles can't be forgiven.  Nobody is saying that they can't be part of the church (via tailored fellowship and Bible study).  Nobody is denying that Christ died for all sorts of sin and sinners.  Nobody is self-righteously declaring that they are better or superior to other sinners.  These are but strawmen and obfuscation.  The point that you continue to ignore, as Tbone most recently restated for the umteenth time, is that there are consequences to our sin, and that though the born-again pedophile will be glorified and worshiping around the throne in a sin-free heaven, while he is here he has forfeited certain priveleges.  A repentant person would understand this and not desire to harm people who are weak and vulnerable, even by their presence in the assembly.

 

[T-Bone]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

Nobody has said that at all.. As I have said from the beginning, they should be monitored. I have also let you all in on a family secret about me. I now have children of my own, you think I am going to do that?
You want to read into whatever you want, it's not what anybody has been saying.

Yes you are and you don't even realize it...which is what is sad.  There is no way to monitor someone all the time.  These people have disqualified themselves from being around children..period.  Can they be forgiven...yes they can, but they cannot be allowed to be around children and if they have actually repented they would understand that and seek an alternative place and group to worship with.  You want it both ways...you want to tell us they can be transformed and should be allowed in the church ...yet you don't really mean it. 

 

[graceandtruth]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

So what other sins does the New Creature Clause not apply to?  I don't think people are being stupid but they may be trying to be consistent.

The reality is that in a church of 200-300 people it should be no problem keeping tabs on an individual that has been convicted of pedophilia .  When I say pedophilia I am not referencing a 19 year old and a 16 year old since this happens all the time in our neighborhood schools.  In a church larger then that this whole argument is meaningless.  There is no way to track or identify every person who comes through the doors of a church of 1000 or even 500 people.  As long as they do not seek membership or a ministry position that requires background checks they could continue to attend unnoticed forever. 

This simply reveals that many of us believe that our sins can be forgiven and we can be changed by the power of the Gospel and others can be forgiven but changed...not so much.  I think this is a huge part of the problem that non-believers have with the way that we practice Christianity.  We are so inconsistent and arbitrary that it drives them crazy.  We claim we are to follow the Scriptures and not human wisdom when they disagree with the Scriptures but then we turn around and let human wisdom trump clear biblical teaching when it is convenient for us.

Again I understand all those advocating exclusion.  I have a wife who was molested and 11 of our children are under 18 years of age and we have another on the way.  I just cannot find the biblical merit in saying that God delivers from all sins so that we sin no more except this one.  I do not advocate stupidity but caution and grace and faith in God's ability to make new creatures of everyone including those whose sins we have been hurt by or sins we don't understand kind of like the family of Stephen and others who were killed and injured by Saul before he was converted and accepted by the church as an apostle.

I just saw T-Bone's last post and I am interested to see this alternate place to worship pointed out in Scripture. 

 

[T-Bone]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

So what other sins does the New Creature Clause not apply to?  I don't think people are being stupid but they may be trying to be consistent.

The reality is that in a church of 200-300 people it should be no problem keeping tabs on an individual that has been convicted of pedophilia .  When I say pedophilia I am not referencing a 19 year old and a 16 year old since this happens all the time in our neighborhood schools.  In a church larger then that this whole argument is meaningless.  There is no way to track or identify every person who comes through the doors of a church of 1000 or even 500 people.  As long as they do not seek membership or a ministry position that requires background checks they could continue to attend unnoticed forever. 

This simply reveals that many of us believe that our sins can be forgiven and we can be changed by the power of the Gospel and others can be forgiven but changed...not so much.  I think this is a huge part of the problem that non-believers have with the way that we practice Christianity.  We are so inconsistent and arbitrary that it drives them crazy.  We claim we are to follow the Scriptures and not human wisdom when they disagree with the Scriptures but then we turn around and let human wisdom trump clear biblical teaching when it is convenient for us.

Again I understand all those advocating exclusion.  I have a wife who was molested and 11 of our children are under 18 years of age and we have another on the way.  I just cannot find the biblical merit in saying that God delivers from all sins so that we sin no more except this one.  I do not advocate stupidity but caution and grace and faith in God's ability to make new creatures of everyone including those whose sins we have been hurt by or sins we don't understand kind of like the family of Stephen and others who were killed and injured by Saul before he was converted and accepted by the church as an apostle.

I just saw T-Bone's last post and I am interested to see this alternate place to worship pointed out in Scripture.

First, not all churches are just 200-300 people...what are you going to do put a "scarlet letter" on the pedophiles?  If you don't think there are temporal consequences for certain sins and that they disqualify people from some places and positions I can't help you.  And it is stupid to advocate pedophiles being around children.

As to the alternative places to worship (and you want a Scriptural reference)...first let me say you would have trouble providing Scriptural references for the way we do and meet in churches today, if you want to be real specific about it.  So here is my reference..."Where 2 or 3 are gathered together, I will be with them"...there are adult only Bible studies and small groups...in our area we have churches that are all adult because they are senior adult congregations with no children.  The repentent pedophile can do what is right and meet in a place with other believers where there are no children and they can have a great time of worship, teaching and growth.  We don't have to be stupid (I repeat myself) and put other people's children in potential harm's way.

 

[kaba]

You can be forgiven and restored but There is a consequence for our sin! If the agreement is that they can get out of jail, but they have to keep so many feet, yards, miles away from children-then so be it! Just as it takes a SECOND for a toddler to disappear and fall into a pool, it just takes a second for a pedophilia to snatch a child, keeping your eyes on one in a crowd of 200 or 300 can be hard. I'm just not ready to sacrifice my children.

I have talked to my husband ( he is not in prison he just works in one!) about sex offenders in prison and their behavior while in prison! They are not someone I want my young girls around, nor my young boys!

 

[graceandtruth]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

So what other sins does the New Creature Clause not apply to?  I don't think people are being stupid but they may be trying to be consistent.

The reality is that in a church of 200-300 people it should be no problem keeping tabs on an individual that has been convicted of pedophilia .  When I say pedophilia I am not referencing a 19 year old and a 16 year old since this happens all the time in our neighborhood schools.  In a church larger then that this whole argument is meaningless.  There is no way to track or identify every person who comes through the doors of a church of 1000 or even 500 people.  As long as they do not seek membership or a ministry position that requires background checks they could continue to attend unnoticed forever. 

This simply reveals that many of us believe that our sins can be forgiven and we can be changed by the power of the Gospel and others can be forgiven but changed...not so much.  I think this is a huge part of the problem that non-believers have with the way that we practice Christianity.  We are so inconsistent and arbitrary that it drives them crazy.  We claim we are to follow the Scriptures and not human wisdom when they disagree with the Scriptures but then we turn around and let human wisdom trump clear biblical teaching when it is convenient for us.

Again I understand all those advocating exclusion.  I have a wife who was molested and 11 of our children are under 18 years of age and we have another on the way.  I just cannot find the biblical merit in saying that God delivers from all sins so that we sin no more except this one.  I do not advocate stupidity but caution and grace and faith in God's ability to make new creatures of everyone including those whose sins we have been hurt by or sins we don't understand kind of like the family of Stephen and others who were killed and injured by Saul before he was converted and accepted by the church as an apostle.

I just saw T-Bone's last post and I am interested to see this alternate place to worship pointed out in Scripture.

First, not all churches are just 200-300 people...what are you going to do put a "scarlet letter" on the pedophiles?  If you don't think there are temporal consequences for certain sins and that they disqualify people from some places and positions I can't help you.  And it is stupid to advocate pedophiles being around children.

As to the alternative places to worship (and you want a Scriptural reference)...first let me say you would have trouble providing Scriptural references for the way we do and meet in churches today, if you want to be real specific about it.  So here is my reference..."Where 2 or 3 are gathered together, I will be with them"...there are adult only Bible studies and small groups...in our area we have churches that are all adult because they are senior adult congregations with no children.  The repentent pedophile can do what is right and meet in a place with other believers where there are no children and they can have a great time of worship, teaching and growth.  We don't have to be stupid (I repeat myself) and put other people's children in potential harm's way.

Thanks T-bone for your reply.  You do realize in a large church that pedophiles may roam freely as I indicated in my post and you and no one else can detect them until they request membership or seek a ministry position that requires background checks.  I think you missed that point.

I am pretty sure the passage you are referencing has nothing to do with corporate worship but with prayer.

Your posts seem to be missing the spirit of 2 Timothy 2:24 even for those of us who have not been convicted of any crimes. 

Kaba you to seem to be comparing unredeemed sinners in prison to those who have been redeemed--clearly not the same thing if the Scripture is accurate about the results of salvation.

 

[samspade]

I know I reference him often, but David Berkowitz story seems relevant here. From an interview last year:

"Jailhouse conversion stories are usually suspect. But the 24 ensuing years have demonstrated that something is radically different about David Berkowitz. Rebekah Binger, who interviewed him in 2009 for the Pace Law Review, commented that “he more resembled a retired police officer than a former serial killer.”

His name made national news again in August 2011, when he announced that he will not seek parole when his next opportunity comes in May, 2012. Responding to a letter from FoxNews reporter Joshua Rhett Miller, Berkowitz wrote, “I have no interest in parole … I am already a ‘free man.’ I am not saying this jokingly. I really am. … while society will never forgive me, God has. I am forever grateful for such forgiveness.”

Besides, he has a mission right where he is. “Right now my life is filled with deep inner peace and with joy in the Lord. I am, by the grace of God, doing and accomplishing many positive things,” he added in a letter to me. David is an elder and worship leader in the prison church, where, “broken hearts are being mended … tormented minds are receiving deliverance … [and] damaged and bruised souls are getting healed.” He works as a Mobility Guide for sight-impaired inmates and a Program Aide for inmates with mental health impairments. Binger called him “a sort of prison trustee.” Some of the younger inmates call him, ‘Grandpa Dave.’"

David Berkowitz is demonstrating a heart changed by Christ. And he's doing it right where the consequences of his actions have placed him. Can you say the same about the sex offender who gets insulted when a church asks him to consider his victims?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

This is almost comical if it weren't so sadly pathetic.  All these pushing for full inclusion of the pedophile in the church because they can be forgiven (which I agree they can) are willing to put other people's children in harms way to prove they are so gracious & forgiving (I believe they miss understand the meaning of these in this case). You guys don't really believe what you are putting forth here, because not a one of you would put your child or grandchild in a room with a convicted pedophile and let them spend the day with them.  If you say you would you are not being truthful.  And if you really would do that, then you are not qualified or worthy to have your children.

You can forgive without being stupid...so stop being stupid with other people's children!

Nobody has said that at all.. As I have said from the beginning, they should be monitored. I have also let you all in on a family secret about me. I now have children of my own, you think I am going to do that?
You want to read into whatever you want, it's not what anybody has been saying.

Yes you are and you don't even realize it...which is what is sad.  There is no way to monitor someone all the time.  These people have disqualified themselves from being around children..period.  Can they be forgiven...yes they can, but they cannot be allowed to be around children and if they have actually repented they would understand that and seek an alternative place and group to worship with.  You want it both ways...you want to tell us they can be transformed and should be allowed in the church ...yet you don't really mean it.

Amen!
This verse has application here, I believe...even though the context is false teachers.
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood". Acts 20:20

 

[kaba]

The percentage of those redeemed is very small-can be done, but very small. And again, consequence for your sin is no longer around children. Why is that so hard to accept.