Registered sex offenders and church attendance.

lnf said:
freelance_christian said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Does your church have a policy regarding attendance of registered sex offenders?
A few months ago, we discovered that one was attending our services. He is a 72 year old man convicted of raping a 23 year old (with the mental capacity of a 5 year old) repeatedly over a 12 month period. He served prison time and is now registered and on probation.
Our policy, along with the laws in NC, lead us to ask him NOT to attend services.
Some of our Pastors and Deacons felt remorse over the decision.

Do you have a policy...if not, imo you should...and what does it contain?
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How exactly do you justify this biblically? 1 Corinthians 6 makes it clear that the church is not comprised of just the best of us, but also the worst among us, including the sexually immoral. If this man is repentant then he has the right to fellowship with the church. Granted, the church should have someone monitor this man the entire time he is in attendance, and he would be limited in his capacity to serve in the church, but exclusion is hardly a biblical response to this situation. If he is truly repentant, he will welcome the accountability. He should also have regular contact and accountability with the ministerial staff throughout the week. We had two registered sex offenders in our church, a male and a female, in somewhat regular attendance, and that is how we handled it. Neither of them could bear the constant monitoring and accountability, and they left.
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freelance christian, that's the rub...constant monitoring and accountability.  Somehow, I doubt that most churches will actually do the follow-through to protect their other members.  Goodness, at my church, we have a hard time getting people to make sure the doors are locked!  Personally, I'd rather stand before my God and explain why I excluded a sexual predator from my church than to explain why I didn't...
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So God will give us a pass because we are too lazy to minister to the worst among us? Somehow I doubt that will be the case...
 
Norefund said:
I'm curious. How does a church know a sex offender is attending? People can attend churches for years without joining so I'm not sure how anyone would know.
Click to expand...

Once a year, our local paper prints the names of everyone in two counties on the sex offender list in the Sunday edition.
 
freelance_christian said:
lnf said:
freelance_christian said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Does your church have a policy regarding attendance of registered sex offenders?
A few months ago, we discovered that one was attending our services. He is a 72 year old man convicted of raping a 23 year old (with the mental capacity of a 5 year old) repeatedly over a 12 month period. He served prison time and is now registered and on probation.
Our policy, along with the laws in NC, lead us to ask him NOT to attend services.
Some of our Pastors and Deacons felt remorse over the decision.

Do you have a policy...if not, imo you should...and what does it contain?
Click to expand...

How exactly do you justify this biblically? 1 Corinthians 6 makes it clear that the church is not comprised of just the best of us, but also the worst among us, including the sexually immoral. If this man is repentant then he has the right to fellowship with the church. Granted, the church should have someone monitor this man the entire time he is in attendance, and he would be limited in his capacity to serve in the church, but exclusion is hardly a biblical response to this situation. If he is truly repentant, he will welcome the accountability. He should also have regular contact and accountability with the ministerial staff throughout the week. We had two registered sex offenders in our church, a male and a female, in somewhat regular attendance, and that is how we handled it. Neither of them could bear the constant monitoring and accountability, and they left.
Click to expand...

freelance christian, that's the rub...constant monitoring and accountability.  Somehow, I doubt that most churches will actually do the follow-through to protect their other members.  Goodness, at my church, we have a hard time getting people to make sure the doors are locked!  Personally, I'd rather stand before my God and explain why I excluded a sexual predator from my church than to explain why I didn't...
Click to expand...

So God will give us a pass because we are too lazy to minister to the worst among us? Somehow I doubt that will be the case...
Click to expand...

In the case of my wife's first husband who turned out to be a child molester, he was the pastor's son!
 
freelance_christian said:
There are a thousand and one what if scenarios that we could explore, but I would ask you the same question: On what biblical grounds would you exclude a repentant sex offender from your church? Ministering grace to sinners is dirty work.
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Knock yourself out.  If I am going to err on the matter, it will be with a view of protecting the vulnerable in the church.  The child molestor should be castrated and jailed for life, at a minimum, and this wouldn't be an issue.  But if they are released, they can find fellowship through home Bible studies and a variety of other ways that doesn't cause more harm to the people they have already scarred for life.
 
Ban them all!

We should also ban those folks who go around hunting down Christians to murder simply because they are Christians. Except that one mass murderer...the one that wrote 2/3 of the New Testament...

...seems to me like God can use even the "least of these" to do mighty works.
 
My only thought is regarding the time since the last offence. If a man is 20 years since his last offence, I would be less frightened than a man who is only 1 year from his.
 
[quote author=aleshanee]a truly repentant person would not go near the thing or the person that was the focus of his crime.... especially if he knew just the sight of him was going to further traumatize recovering victims..  and others like the people he once preyed upon... .. he would voluntarily find some other way and some other place to worship God and serve Him... ...  don;t tell me these guys are reformed.... tell it to yourself while they sit in your church and stare at your children...  [/font][/size][/color][/quote]

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine...
 
Norefund said:
I'm curious. How does a church know a sex offender is attending? People can attend churches for years without joining so I'm not sure how anyone would know.
Click to expand...

In many States, such as Tennessee, the registry is available on-line. We can type in a location and distance and the website will list all registered sex offenders living within that area. If I remember correctly it usually lists the offense they were convicted of also.

In a related story, a friend's wife teaches spin classes at a church gym facility. She called me because a man attending had admitted to her that he was a registered sex offender. It turned out I knew the man and confronted him. We also contacted his probation officer who advised him, along with the director of the facility, that if he set foot on the property again he would be back in prison. It didn't bother me one bit as, when that man had been released from prison, I helped find two residential programs that were willing to take him in. He refused both.

I have great sympathy for someone who says they have repented and are willing to do whatever it takes to not cause further pain to their victims. I have no sympathy for someone who says they've repented and everyone else should just get over it.
 
[quote author=aleshanee]so does the Lord come to you in a vision about these "reformed" perpetrators you want to bring into the church... or do you find their names listed in the Bible next to the apostle paul?... .whose word do you take they are truly "reformed" and not just playing you for their own purposes?.... .  you know.. when i hear things and see things they attribute it to schizophrenia.. .. [/quote]

I don't think anyone said they should be given the run of the place...in fact, I believe people stated the exact opposite.

[quote author=aleshanee]another legacy left to me by the same type of people who you wish to champion...[/quote]

I was unaware that I was championing anyone.

[quote author=aleshanee].. but if you see and hear visions about these perpetrators and can be certain it;s all from God just like it was in scripture then do what you feel you must....  [/quote]

It's not about visions. It's about showing grace, even to those people who are nailing you to a cross who have committed atrocious actions.

[quote author=aleshanee]like i told your friend.. ... feel free to take as many of them into your own church as you like.. .if that;s what you feel God is leading you to do... ..  but don;t expect me to welcome them into mine or go along with you into yours...[/quote]

I don't expect you to do anything. I've just cited Scripture.

[quote author=aleshanee].  .. ..  i would sooner trust the evidence that bigfoot exists than believe what these guys claim about being reformed.... [/quote]

Do you think the cross is insufficient?
 
[quote author=samspade]I have great sympathy for someone who says they have repented and are willing to do whatever it takes to not cause further pain to their victims. I have no sympathy for someone who says they've repented and everyone else should just get over it.[/quote]

I would agree with this.
 
I would hope all the bleeding hearts on this thread would not have a problem allowing visitation rights for the following:

A rapist forces himself on your wife and produces offspring.  He's given a slap on the wrist by the justice system and out of prison in five years, in which time he finds religion.  He demands paternity visitation rights for the child he sired.  Of course in your Christian charity you allow it, because this is the father of the child.  Don't be hard-hearted now, show your longsuffering patience and spirit of forgiveness.  8)

 
rsc2a said:
[quote author=aleshanee]a truly repentant person would not go near the thing or the person that was the focus of his crime.... especially if he knew just the sight of him was going to further traumatize recovering victims..  and others like the people he once preyed upon... .. he would voluntarily find some other way and some other place to worship God and serve Him... ...  don;t tell me these guys are reformed.... tell it to yourself while they sit in your church and stare at your children...  [/font][/size][/color]
Click to expand...

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine...
[/quote] Not in the least bit relevant.

Anishinabe

 
I had a special opportunity to minister to a child molester while in Bible college.

We were dropping off a twelve year old girl who we picked up for the evening service.  We dropped her off at her apartment and started to drive away.  She came running back out of her apartment building screaming and crying because there was a man waiting for her in her apartment.  This "man" was in the habit of paying her mother to let him "babysit" her.  I put her back on the bus, went up to the apartment, and threw him down 2 flights of stairs.  I told him if I ever saw him near her apartment again, he would disappear.

He felt led of the Lord to move away.  Might seem harsh, but it was Chicago.....

That was 31 years ago, and I ain't spent a second yet feeling bad about it. 


 
ALAYMAN said:
I would hope all the bleeding hearts on this thread would not have a problem allowing visitation rights for the following:

A rapist forces himself on your wife and produces offspring.  He's given a slap on the wrist by the justice system and out of prison in five years, in which time he finds religion.  He demands paternity visitation rights for the child he sired.  Of course in your Christian charity you allow it, because this is the father of the child.  Don't be hard-hearted now, show your longsuffering patience and spirit of forgiveness.  8)
Click to expand...

Except that he's isn't the father. He's a sperm-donor.
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
[quote author=aleshanee]a truly repentant person would not go near the thing or the person that was the focus of his crime.... especially if he knew just the sight of him was going to further traumatize recovering victims..  and others like the people he once preyed upon... .. he would voluntarily find some other way and some other place to worship God and serve Him... ...  don;t tell me these guys are reformed.... tell it to yourself while they sit in your church and stare at your children...  [/font][/size][/color]
Click to expand...

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine...
Click to expand...

so does the Lord come to you in a vision about these "reformed" perpetrators you want to bring into the church... or do you find their names listed in the Bible next to the apostle paul?... .whose word do you take they are truly "reformed" and not just playing you for their own purposes?.... .  you know.. when i hear things and see things they attribute it to schizophrenia.. ..  another legacy left to me by the same type of people who you wish to champion..... but if you see and hear visions about these perpetrators and can be certain it;s all from God just like it was in scripture then do what you feel you must.... 

like i told your friend.. ... feel free to take as many of them into your own church as you like.. .if that;s what you feel God is leading you to do... ..  but don;t expect me to welcome them into mine or go along with you into yours....  .. ..  i would sooner trust the evidence that bigfoot exists than believe what these guys claim, themselves, about being reformed.... 
[/quote]

You know what's funny Aleshanee? He really thinks he is a theological master piece. He's a legend in his own mind. He reminds me of my brother. (whom I really do love). He thinks everything revolves around what he believes and everyone.... and I mean EVERYONE, is beneath his understand of the truth.

Yet, he makes a very common mistake. A mistake of a novice. He uses the example of God's divine choice in Paul as an example..... FOR ANYONE. The truth of the matter is, just because God chose "Paul" after he had persecuted the "Church of God"..... doesn't mean God has chosen a repentant pedophile/rapist to be a "chosen vessel" for some infinitely valuable work of God. That's like comparing a turd to a 100 carat diamond in the rough.

Don't get me wrong. I believe God can save such peoples. I hope they come to Christ. However, they must realize that their own actions have consequences. In the idea world, a hard core child rapist or even a rapist period... would find himself swinging at the end of rope..... or better yet, castrated, sitting on a mood of salt... waiting for a the firing squad to shot him full BBs until he dies from metal poisoning.

People like rsca want to always talk of forgiveness. I believe in forgiveness and I am glad God hasn't dealt with me according to my sin. Yet, don't throw everyone that commits sin into the same category as a pedophile or rapist. Can they find fellowship with God? Yes. Can they find fellowship at a church filled with potential/past victims of abuse? Probably not. Nothing wrong with it at all. Don't let morons like rsca throw a guilt trip your way.
 
prophet said:
rsc2a said:
[quote author=aleshanee]a truly repentant person would not go near the thing or the person that was the focus of his crime.... especially if he knew just the sight of him was going to further traumatize recovering victims..  and others like the people he once preyed upon... .. he would voluntarily find some other way and some other place to worship God and serve Him... ...  don;t tell me these guys are reformed.... tell it to yourself while they sit in your church and stare at your children...  [/font][/size][/color]
Click to expand...

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine...
Click to expand...
Not in the least bit relevant.

Anishinabe[/quote]

I mean, once you get past the fact that the passage cited describes exactly what aleshanee was describing, it's completely irrelevant. But, that's going to be a difficult fact to avoid.
 
rsc2a said:
ALAYMAN said:
I would hope all the bleeding hearts on this thread would not have a problem allowing visitation rights for the following:

A rapist forces himself on your wife and produces offspring.  He's given a slap on the wrist by the justice system and out of prison in five years, in which time he finds religion.  He demands paternity visitation rights for the child he sired.  Of course in your Christian charity you allow it, because this is the father of the child.  Don't be hard-hearted now, show your longsuffering patience and spirit of forgiveness.  8)
Click to expand...

Except that he's isn't the father. He's a sperm-donor.
Click to expand...

Really? Are you that callous toward a potential church member that's found faith in church???  :o

On one hand you question their rejection and then you call them a "sperm-donor".

You're a hoot rsca. A buffoon.... but a hoot just the same.
 
aleshanee said:
rsc2a said:
[quote author=aleshanee]a truly repentant person would not go near the thing or the person that was the focus of his crime.... especially if he knew just the sight of him was going to further traumatize recovering victims..  and others like the people he once preyed upon... .. he would voluntarily find some other way and some other place to worship God and serve Him... ...  don;t tell me these guys are reformed.... tell it to yourself while they sit in your church and stare at your children...  [/font][/size][/color]
Click to expand...

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine...
Click to expand...

so does the Lord come to you in a vision about these "reformed" perpetrators you want to bring into the church... or do you find their names listed in the Bible next to the apostle paul?... .whose word do you take they are truly "reformed" and not just playing you for their own purposes?.... .  you know.. when i hear things and see things they attribute it to schizophrenia.. ..  another legacy left to me by the same type of people who you wish to champion..... but if you see and hear visions about these perpetrators and can be certain it;s all from God just like it was in scripture then do what you feel you must.... 

like i told your friend.. ... feel free to take as many of them into your own church as you like.. .if that;s what you feel God is leading you to do... ..  but don;t expect me to welcome them into mine or go along with you into yours....  .. ..  i would sooner trust the evidence that bigfoot exists than believe what these guys claim, themselves, about being reformed.... 
[/quote]

I gotta go with aleshanee here.  Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to make yourself stupid about the risks.  Protect those at risk one way or another, especially if we're talking kids. 
 
christundivided said:
Really? Are you that callous toward a potential church member that's found faith in church???  :o

On one hand you question their rejection and then you call them a "sperm-donor".

You're a hoot rsca. A buffoon.... but a hoot just the same.
Click to expand...


lol, you're on a roll.  :D  and the satire/irony nails him to the hypocritical wall.
 
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