The King James Code

[subllibrm]

Does this work in the Spanish version of the KJV?

Does it work in the Greek/Hebrew as well?

If not, how do we know that those are actually God's word?

FWIW this type of reasoning has been used to predict the end of the world, the return of Christ, explain storms and earthquakes and to identity the anti-christ. Not one of them has proven true.

Now do these "code" numbers add up? Probably to some extent (I did see that several discrepancies were noted) but other than some interesting (to some) coincidences, they amount to nothing of doctrinal or eternal value. God did not hide His message in a code. He put it out in the open for all to see.

 

[subllibrm]

Years ago I had a co-worker who was adamant that Christians shouldn't participate in the santa claus tradition (full disclosure, we don't either, but for completely different reasons).

His"logic" was that if you switch the letters around Santa becomes Satan! See? Santa/Satan! See?  :

My response was that if you switch the letters around God becomes dog. He got pretty upset with my "sacrilege".  Of course if the reasoning works in one case it should work in every case.

So I am looking forward to the KJV anagram proof system.  8)

 

[Biblebeliever]

And no these codes do not replace the authority of Scripture.  They simply affirm it.

The Scriptures need no affirmation to their authority. This is where you cross over into replacing its authority.

The Scriptures are authoritative whether we believe they are or not.

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

That is why these Numerical Codes and Patterns are there in its text. God is simply showing us that His hand is on the Authorized Version.

 

[subllibrm]

The Scriptures are authoritative whether we believe they are or not.

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

That is why these Numerical Codes and Patterns are there in its text. God is simply showing us that His hand is on the Authorized Version.

You aren't going to answer any of my questions are you?

 

[Ransom]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

Pope Biblebeliever has spoken!

 

[subllibrm]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

 

[T-Bone]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

Ransom answered that question...for Biblebeliever and those like him, they are their own final authority, because they did not get their position from the Scripture.

 

[Timothy]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

Ransom answered that question...for Biblebeliever and those like him, they are their own final authority, because they did not get their position from the Scripture.

How silly. I would say much of the KJVonly issue is based on scripture. Only, there is a difference between what people agree the scriptures are saying. I don't agree with the number stuff as presented in this passage though.

 

[T-Bone]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

Ransom answered that question...for Biblebeliever and those like him, they are their own final authority, because they did not get their position from the Scripture.

How silly. I would say much of the KJVonly issue is based on scripture. Only, there is a difference between what people agree the scriptures are saying. I don't agree with the number stuff as presented in this passage though.

Not silly at all Timmy...if someone makes a doctrine of something that is not clearly in the Scripture then by definition they have become their own final authority.  If someone says it is my preference to use the KJV because I feel it is the most accurate and it is my preference that is not establishing a un or extra-biblical doctrine it is expressing a preference.

 

[Ransom]

How silly. I would say much of the KJVonly issue is based on scripture.

None of the KJV-only issue is based on Scripture. The Bible never addresses the issues of its own translation or transmission.  KJV-onlyism is based on nothing but assumptions about the way those things ought to be.

KJVers will occasionally appeal to Scripture, but only to take verses out of context - and as we have seen with Biblebeliever, to read "KJV" into anything that says "the word of God." Eisegesis, anyone?

 

[Timothy]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

Ransom answered that question...for Biblebeliever and those like him, they are their own final authority, because they did not get their position from the Scripture.

How silly. I would say much of the KJVonly issue is based on scripture. Only, there is a difference between what people agree the scriptures are saying. I don't agree with the number stuff as presented in this passage though.

Not silly at all Timmy...if someone makes a doctrine of something that is not clearly in the Scripture then by definition they have become their own final authority.  If someone says it is my preference to use the KJV because I feel it is the most accurate and it is my preference that is not establishing a un or extra-biblical doctrine it is expressing a preference.

I know a local preacher who says "I am convinced that the King James is God's preserved word ..."

He is convinced through mediation, certain Biblical text, witness of the new versions .... but, unlike doctrine, this is a strong conviction. I think for him and many others, preference is far too weak a word since they are convinced that God has shown them that the King James is His Word.

My pastor calls it a "more sure word" since he believes it trumps the other translations ... but he is okay with people using the others. He believes the King James is a stronger witness, better translation ....

Both these men I know ... well, I don't think they have their own authority, but more of a strong conviction of God's authority.

 

[T-Bone]

The Authorized King James Bible is God's Final Written Authority.

And 4 hundred years from now will God have to intercede again to "preserve" His word as english continues to change? How will we know that the KJV has been supplanted by another more final "Final Written Authority".

BTW who gave you the authority to proclaim the KJV to be the "Final Written Authority"?

Ransom answered that question...for Biblebeliever and those like him, they are their own final authority, because they did not get their position from the Scripture.

How silly. I would say much of the KJVonly issue is based on scripture. Only, there is a difference between what people agree the scriptures are saying. I don't agree with the number stuff as presented in this passage though.

Not silly at all Timmy...if someone makes a doctrine of something that is not clearly in the Scripture then by definition they have become their own final authority.  If someone says it is my preference to use the KJV because I feel it is the most accurate and it is my preference that is not establishing a un or extra-biblical doctrine it is expressing a preference.

I know a local preacher who says "I am convinced that the King James is God's preserved word ..."

He is convinced through mediation, certain Biblical text, witness of the new versions .... but, unlike doctrine, this is a strong conviction. I think for him and many others, preference is far too weak a word since they are convinced that God has shown them that the King James is His Word.

My pastor calls it a "more sure word" since he believes it trumps the other translations ... but he is okay with people using the others. He believes the King James is a stronger witness, better translation ....

Both these men I know ... well, I don't think they have their own authority, but more of a strong conviction of God's authority.

Don't know these men, so I will have to take your word on their stance.  To me it is simple, anyone who says the Biblical text itself teaches a particular translation of the Scripture is somehow inspired rather than the Scripture itself being inspired, they have said what the Scripture does not say, they have done that and have become their own final authority.  It is as simple as this,  if this really is so crucial, then please show me one verse that deals with the KJV being the only inspired translation.  And when did this happen and where was the inspired translation before 1611?

 

[Ransom]

I know a local preacher who says "I am convinced that the King James is God's preserved word ..."

He is convinced through mediation, certain Biblical text, witness of the new versions .... but, unlike doctrine, this is a strong conviction.

I don't care how strong his "conviction" is, if it's not soundly based on the word of God.  Fervency and sincerity are no substitute for revealed truth, and he has none.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

1769

 

[subllibrm]

1769

Divide that by 7 and you get 252.7142857142857 ......

That must mean something.  ???

 

[T-Bone]

1769

Divide that by 7 and you get 252.7142857142857 ......

That must mean something.  ???

Hey if you invert the numbers you get 1976 which was the bi-centennial which proves that the US is the great whore of Babylon!

 

[Biblebeliever]

yes.. i know God is a God of order.... and i also know patterns, even numerical patterns can be found in all of creation.... because that is what makes things work... and that is the way God designed them......patterns and numerical order is everywhere.....  does that mean we are supposed to view numerical patterns with awe and pay credence to some mystic study of numerology?....no.....and i believe to do such is to practice a form of idolatry....

[size=12pt]Aleshanee, how is viewing and acknowledging the phenomenon of the textual and numerical patterns a form of idolatry? Why do you consider studying these Numerical Patters a mystic thing to do?

You clearly acknowledge that you can discern the numerical order even in creation, which is good. But do you consider that somehow also mystic? Wouldn't be rational to conclude that if God placed these numerical patterns and order in His own creation, that Numerical patterns and sequences would also be found in His very word? After all, didn't he frame the worlds by His word? Didn't He speak everything into existence by His words?

have you ever seen people stare into the clouds and at the strata of rocks on a cliff... looking for faces?..... they always find them don;t they?... that is what people who constantly look for numerical patterns in the Bible remind me of..... they will see what they want to see in the same way people who take Bible scripture out of context will make it say what they want it to say..... it causes serious problems when people who do that to scripture .... and there are some serious problems with the way you claim a secret code was handed down from God in the king james regarding it;s words, chapters and verses.....

Here is the thing to consider though Aleshanee, are these Numerical codes in the text of the Authorized Version?

There are a lot of people who have downloaded the King James Pure Bible Search software and they are typing in the words and phrases which he listed in his book, and they confirming for themselves that they are there! In fact, people are finding new Numerical Patterns. Again, which just shows God's handywork on the Authorized Version.

Aleshanee, when did I ever claim that the King James Code was a secrete code???

Let me again share the introduction to Mike Hoggard's book:


Section 1: About the King James Code.

What the King James Code is NOT.

The King James Code does not have anything to do with equidistant letter sequences. Much debate centers around ELS because of its controversial, and sometimes rather subjective nature. Some feel that, even though, there may well be letter sequences in the Hebrew scriptures, there meanings and interpretations are most often obscure.

The King James Code is not a private, secret language that only the elect are going to be able to interpret. It does not necessarily require sophisticated computers and software in order to discover the codes, however, a computer search is much easier and less time consuming than a typical concordance search.

What is the King James Code?

If I had to describe the King James Code in a nutshell, I would do it this way. The King James Bible contains a system of numbers that are consistently linked with words or phrases in the scriptures. It is understood that the Bible can be comprehended on many levels. The more you study the Scriptures and become accustomed to them, the more you understand the Divine symbols of certain passages that you never saw before. These must always come as a product of Divine Revelation. Certain words and phrases take on a whole new meaning, never contradictory to any other passage in the Scriptures. As you study, you begin to see also that numbers seem to have a certain relevance in the Bible. Each number will have its own symbolic meaning. Things associated with completion or perfection will be linked with the number 7. Things associated with the sinfulness of man will be associated with the number 6, and so on. - Mike Hoggard (The King James Code, Introduction)

And that is basically what the King James Code is. It is not something that only a few people can understand or discover. These Numerical Patters are in the text, and anyone can look up these codes and verify that they are there. I do not see anything mystical about it.

for one... the original manuscripts recording the Word of God were not written in chapters and verses.... that was begun by clerics in the 13th century and continued up to the time the geneva Bible was produced....there was and always has been controversy about how those chapters and verses came to be divided and why... ... nobody i have ever heard of has claimed that the dividing of the Bible into chapters and verses was inspired.... in fact many preachers and Bible scholars say those divisions actually confuse some parts of scripture and make them harder to interpret accurately.... they say the way the divisions of chapter and verse was done could have been done a lot better.....  and they wish it had been.....  ........ also... there is some controversy over certain verses found in the king james Bible that according to some scholars were not found in the original manuscripts....  the following is from an article that pappabear linked to on the subject concerning verses that were missing from modern translations....

[/size]

Aleshanee, I am aware that the manuscripts did not have chapters and verse divisions. But let me ask you this. If God promised to preserve His words, which He did, read Psalm 12. Wouldn't you think that God would have a hand in the process and formation of how His word would be kept and translated down through the centuries including the formation of chapter and verse divisions?

I really do not see how the chapter and verse divisions would make the Scriptures harder to interpret. That is their own opinion. I am personally thankful for the chapter and verse separations. If you are looking for a certain portion of Scripture, you can find it a lot quicker if you know the chapter and verse of that passage of Scripture. And also, we are to allow the Scriptures to interpret the Scriptures. And we do that by comparing Scripture with Scripture.

Bible scholar Bart D. Ehrman notes that some of the most known of these verses were not part of the original text of the New Testament. "These scribal additions are often found in late medieval manuscripts of the New Testament, but not in the manuscripts of the earlier centuries," he adds. "And because the King James Bible is based on later manuscripts, such verses became part of the Bible tradition in English-speaking lands."

How does Bart Ehrman know that though? Which manuscripts is he basing this statement of his on? If he thinks that the Siniaticus and Vaticanus manuscripts are more accurate well then he is misinformed.

Here is an informative article which Will Kinney wrote on the these two manuscrips:

http://www.brandplucked.webs.com/oldestandbestmss.htm


One other thing though; which verses was Bart Ehrman saying were added?


And by the way, Bart Ehrman is just another Bible agnostic and critic who does not believe that any Bible is the pure, preserve, and inerrant word of God.

does the presence of those verses change christian doctrines?....not in the least.... but had those controversial verses not been included in the king james .... or had the chapter and verse divisions been done a little differently or in a way that actually enhanced the understanding of scripture rather than confusing it.... your numbers scheme regarding the chapters and verses of the Bible and even regarding the occurrences of certain words would not add up........

[size=12pt]But they do add up!

Check out the article, examine the given words and phrases, look them up in the Free King James Pure Bible Search software and you'll see that they do.

Aleshanee, do you seriously believe that if the chapter and verse divisions had been done differently than the controversies that are around today would somehow not be here?

Do you believe that God had control over the process of preservation, translation and the insertion chapter and verse divisions?

but that;s not all.........

at the time the cannon we now have was compiled and for many years thereafter there remained controversy over certain entire books that were included and some that were left out.....  the very same martin luther you quote in your signature line actually believed a few books of the present Bible should have been removed.....namely hebrews, james, jude and revelation.... other people on the council and some who were not believed some or all of the apocrypha should have been included.....the early copies of the first king james Bibles actually had the apocrypha included placed between the old and new testaments.... ...  had those books luther, and later his followers, objected to been removed from the king james... or the apocrypha included in the final authorized version either one......  your numbers scheme would be even more altered from it;s current form..... 

Well the Numerical Patterns attest to the fact that the King James Bible was purified and perfected.

Aleshanee, do you know why the Apocrypha was originally included in the 1611 Printing of the King James Authorized Version? Here is the answer:

http://www.samgipp.com/answerbook/?page=34.htm

and there is more....

language is a very fluid thing.... every language has words that can be used interchangeably... and every language has words that require a number or combination of words be used in order to get the same meaning across in another language..... do you want to know how i know that?.... because i speak 4 languages fluently ..have a working knowledge of a few more and can read another half dozen well enough to get a general idea of what they are saying.... ... had any one of the alternate words or phrases been used in the groups of words you track with your numerology.... and your numbers would have come out very different....

I understand that Aleshanee. You see, the very fact that these Numerical codes and patterns are in the text of the Authorized Version shows it was translated just as God wanted it to be.


Also, I think it is incredible that you speak 4 different languages. You must be a brilliant lady ma'am. When did you begin to study other languages?

but before you say this is proof of divine intervention consider this....... it could also indicate something very troubling .....

a pseudo christian group i already mentioned in a previous post.. the masons and templars...  were very heavily into numerology for centuries prior to the king james Bible being produced .... and there is speculation that certain masons... francis bacon for one... had a heavy hand in editing and compiling the king james Bible..... now if what you say is true and the certain words, chapters and verses in the king james Bible occur in numbers and sequences that have meaning to people who give credence to numerology then it indicates the suspected influence of the masons and the templars on the king james Bible may be more than just speculation...... they might have actually tampered with it...... ... or.... it could indicate that the people obsessed with biblical numerology desperately want to believe that they did....... .and just like people who gaze into clouds and rock strata looking for faces ....they search the scriptures looking for numerical patterns.... and they latch onto whatever they find and call it a discovery....

With all due respect ma'am, I don't believe that tale about the masons "allegedly" tampering with the text of the Authorized Version. You see, God promised to keep and preserve His words. So God was in charge of making sure that all His pure words were preserved and kept down through the centuries. Another thing to consider Aleshanee is that the Numerical codes and patterns that are in the text of the Authorized Version are very complex and yet they harmonize perfectly with the whole text of the holy Scriptures.

There is no way that any man or any group of people for that matter could have designed these codes and textual patterns that are in the Authorized Version. This definitely had to be of a divine nature. There is another book that Mike Hoggard wrote regarding this issue and it is called:

By Divine Order: Scripture Numerics and Bible Prophecy

Also, another thing to consider ma'am is that these Scriptural Numerics honour God's character and nature. Study the number 7 in the Scriptures, it is absolutely fascinating.

You see, the masons and the templars are no friend to Bible believing Christianity, and they are certainly not a friend to the God of the Bible. So if the masons and templars were to attempt to write their own numerical patterns: for one, their numerical work would not honour God's character and two, their own codes would not be as complex and would not be harmonious with the flow and rhythm of the holy Scriptures. It is like I said already Aleshanee, these Numerical Codes and Textual Patters are definitely of a Divine Nature. In fact, they reveal the Divine Inspiration of the King James Holy Bible. And a lot of people out there who learn about these codes may just consider them to be "coincidences" but rest assured that these so called "coincidences" defy chance!

God did not tell us to look for numerical codes in His word or to use any such code to verify a translation as His word..... that idea is purely an
invention of man.....  and if a numerical code really does exist within the king james... i would suspect it was also an invention of man.... but does it change doctrine or the interpretation of scripture?..... not in my opinion..... because as i said before....  language is a very fluid thing.....  the Word of God is solid and steadfast... different words might be used to translate but they will not change it;s meaning.... and that;s what i believe God meant when He said He would preserve His word...... 

[/size]

Aleshanee, these Numerical Codes are in the text of the Authorized King James Version. I have already shown some of them. Again, take some time to actually look into this issue and study the matter. You can visit the following site where a large excerpt from Mike Hoggard's book, The King James Code has been shared.


http://www.biblebelievers.com/Hoggard_KJV_Code.html


You can also obtain a copy of Mike Hoggard's book:

by visiting Amazon.com or by simply getting in contact with Mike Hoggard by way of email.

Also, you can obtain a book which Dr. Peter S. Ruckman did on this issue:

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

1769

Divide that by 7 and you get 252.7142857142857 ......

That must mean something.  ???

It means you have a calculator (app)?

 

[Biblebeliever]

You said: And no these codes do not replace the authority of Scripture.  They simply affirm it.

You also say: The Scriptures are authoritative whether we believe they are or not.

----------

Since we don't need affirmation through numerology, then stop playing with it!

Well sir, I am simply acknowledging the fact that they are in the text of the Authorized King James Holy Bible. Again, these Textual Patterns and Numerical Codes definitely reveal the Divine Inspiration of the King James Holy Bible. Such a remarkable Book!

 

[rsc2a]

1769

Well, the prime numbers for 1769 are 29 and 61. Then 9-2=7 and 6+1=7 and 7x7=49 which is only 7 more than 42, a number that everyone knows is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything!