The King James Code

[Biblebeliever]

Sir, anyone can look up these codes and find them in the text. Anyone can go and verify these Numerical codes and patterns.

This is just total hogwash... even so, what SIGNIFICANCE does this numerology have for the believer?

It is simple.

Numbers each have a meaning. If you have not ever studied the subject of Scriptural Numerics, well then you won't know off the bat the importance of numbers.

Consider the following Number Chart:

Number Symbolic Meaning

1) Unity, Beginnings

2) Union, Division, Witnessing

3) Resurrection, Divine Completeness

4) Creation, World, Worldliness

5) Grace, God’s Goodness, Redemption (a number associated with the Rapture)

6) Weakness of Man — Evils of Satan — Manifestation of Sin

7) Completeness, Spiritual Perfection

8) New Birth, New Creation, New Beginning

9) Fruit of the Spirit, Fruit bearing

10) The Word of God, Law and Responsibility, Kingship


God clearly uses numbers in the Bible. He uses numbers for continuity in Bible Prophecy.

Numbers accurately represent one of God's characteristics. And that is His Eternal Nature. He has never had a beginning and He will never have an end.

Numbers also are eternal. They go on forever in both directions ( positive and negative).


Bible Numerics is one of the integral parts of study in Bible Prophecy.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

A few questions:
1) Where in scripture is numerology taught? If it isn't, where did it come from?
2) Can you show us someone in Christian history, prior to about 50 years ago, that was teaching this stuff and wasn't a rank heretic.

 

[FSSL]

Sir, anyone can look up these codes and find them in the text. Anyone can go and verify these Numerical codes and patterns.

This is just total hogwash... even so, what SIGNIFICANCE does this numerology have for the believer?

[size=12pt]
It is simple.

Numbers each have a meaning. If you have not ever studied the subject of Scriptural Numerics, well then you won't know off the bat the importance of numbers.

I have seen and been exposed to numerology. This stuff is not new.

Here is the GRAVE and SERIOUS problem... the study of numbers is NEVER encouraged in the Bible AND all of these supposed significances are CLEARLY delineated in Scripture.

Since the significance of scripture is already made clear by the text, this numerology scheme is actually REPLACING the authority of Scripture.

You need to visit this passage and seriously reflect on it (without counting verses).

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Ransom]

Aleshanee, with all due respect ma'am. The dark age is already here. You know why? Because of all the 230+ English translations out there which all contradict one another. There is a severe famine in the Land of hearing the words of the LORD (Amos 8:11).

On the contrary, there is an abundance of hearing the words of the Lord. It's just that you KJV-onlyists can't see it. You're like the dwarves in C. S. Lewis' The Last Battle: you're sitting in the middle of a paradise with a beautiful feast in front of you, and you're convinced you're huddled in a stable eating slops.

When you hear pastors say things: "Well a better rendering would be," "Well the verse here should actually read like this,"  "This verse is not in the original Greek." And so on, what these pastors are doing is sowing doubt into your minds as to whether you can trust what God said. It is a "Yea, hath God said...?" mentality.

And then there are your number-spouting Gnostic priests like Hoggard, who ignore the forest for the trees, throw the plain meaning of Scripture under the bus in favour of mystical hogwash, and hold out a carrot promising better and deeper knowledge of the Bible though they can present nothing of eternal significance.

Oh yes, that's much better.

Snort!

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Biblebeliever]...Numbers each have a meaning. If you have not ever studied the subject of Scriptural Numerics, well then you won't know off the bat the importance of numbers.

Consider the following Number Chart...

5) Grace, God’s Goodness, Redemption (a number associated with the Rapture)[/quote]

Hmm...

In the scriptures, the number five is often associated with the subject of death. For instance, in the fifth chapter of Genesis (sometimes known as the obituary column of the bible) in the fifth verse after Adam's name was mentioned five times we are told that he died. All but five individuals in chapter five have their names mentioned exactly five times followed by the statement "and he died." Enoch was mentioned six times but he was translated that he should not see death. The lives of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth extended beyond the flood and their deaths are not recorded until later in the scriptures.
In addition, in 2nd Samuel several individuals were pierced under the fifth rib and subsequently died. Furthermore, in the book of Revelation, John recorded that when the fifth seal was loosed he saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and the testimony they held.

There are five deaths mentioned in the scriptures: death of the body; second or eternal death; death in trespasses and sins; death to fellowship; and dead to sin. The one who has the power of death, Satan, has his name, Satan mentioned fifty five times in the scriptures. The desires of Satan are set forth for us as five "I wills" in Isaiah, chapter 14.

The pride of the flesh that is dead in trespasses and sins is illustrated in the five "I's" of the Pharisee. The excuses of the flesh nature is set forth in the five "I's" of Adam.

Next, there is a five-part covenant, sometimes called the covenant of redemption or covenant of grace, which shows forth God's remedy for death thru the death of his Son.
Jesus, whom God made to be sin for us, suffered five puncture wounds through his body as he suffered and died for the elect.

...well crap, there goes that theory.

(I figure actually discussing that the function of prime numbers could allow virtually anyone to say anything using "code" if they took 30 seconds. Of course, 3 is the number of perfection and 10 is the number of authority, so I have to be right.)

 

[Biblebeliever]

I have seen and been exposed to numerology. This stuff is not new.

Here is the GRAVE and SERIOUS problem... the study of numbers is NEVER encouraged in the Bible AND all of these supposed significances are CLEARLY delineated in Scripture.

Since the significance of scripture is already made clear by the text, this numerology scheme is actually REPLACING the authority of Scripture.

You need to visit this passage and seriously reflect on it (without counting verses).

FSSL, this is not a numerical scheme. These Numerical patterns are in the text of the Holy Bible. A lot of them have already been discovered. There is nothing mystical or superstitious about it. These numerical patterns are simply evidence that God almighty's hand is on the Authorized Version.  It is His very signature of Numerical codes and patterns.

And no these codes do not replace the authority of Scripture.  They simply affirm it. These numerical patterns are internal witnesses that bear witness that the Authorized King James Holy Bible is God's perfect and inerrant word.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Amen. We are to rightly divide the Scriptures and we are to compare Scripture with Scripture.

There are a lot people  who do not rightly divide the Scriptures. And they need to be ashamed for not obeying the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15. And for being sloppy in their approach and study of the Scriptures. Non Dispensational Christians make a mess of the Bible.

Also, there are people who twist and distort the Scriptures.  In fact,  that's what the modern vatican versions do. They distort the text of Scripture. Destructive textual critics like Daniel Wallace are also guilty of wresting the Scriptures.

 

[T-Bone]

And we have now moved from code yellow "IDIOT ALERT", to a full blown code red "LOON ALERT"!

 

[subllibrm]

I counted every time the word "the" used in the KJV and it was a whole bunch. That has got to mean something.  :-\

 

[Timothy]

Something isn't adding up. There is only one (1) God - yet his name is mentioned in my Bible like a million times. Something is wrong.

 

[Timothy]

Something isn't adding up. There is only one (1) God - yet his name is mentioned in my Bible like a million times. Something is wrong.

ok.... so count how many time He is mentioned...
divide it by that same number of mentioned times.......
and guess what number you come up with?.........

1



i;m telling ya it boggles the mind......
it;s enough to make even the most fair haired child crossed eyed.....

Okay, got a random quote from the web. "In the Authorized King James version the word "God" occurs 4,370 times. The word "Lord", 6,855 times. "

Wait! I got it! 1 x 4,370 = 4,370!!!! The number is the same since God never changes!!!! WOW! Now, what I find amazing is when you take 6,855 divided by 4,370 you get 1 before the decimal point. This is amazing!

Anyway ...

I think better arguments to why the King James is superior are available than math games.

 

[Timothy]

Something isn't adding up. There is only one (1) God - yet his name is mentioned in my Bible like a million times. Something is wrong.

ok.... so count how many time He is mentioned...
divide it by that same number of mentioned times.......
and guess what number you come up with?.........

1



i;m telling ya it boggles the mind......
it;s enough to make even the most fair haired child crossed eyed.....

Okay, got a random quote from the web. "In the Authorized King James version the word "God" occurs 4,370 times. The word "Lord", 6,855 times. "

Wait! I got it! 1 x 4,370 = 4,370!!!! The number is the same since God never changes!!!! WOW! Now, what I find amazing is when you take 6,855 divided by 4,370 you get 1 before the decimal point. This is amazing!

Anyway ...

I think better arguments to why the King James is superior are available than math games.

especially when you consider that a well known group of people claiming to be christian who predated the time of king james and were also heavily into numerology were the masons and templars.......  of course being originally builders by trade they had a reason to be obsessed with mathematics and numerical sequences ..... but when you carry that obsession into other things especially into the translation or interpretation of a Bible now you have created a cult......

Okay. Let me understand this ... KJVonly people reject the text from Egypt for various reasons, including the influence of Gnosticism. But then they create this equally foolish way of validating the Bible? Some try too hard.

 

[Walt]

This numerological emphasis a heresy every bit as dangerous as the latin mass.  Rather than focus on what the Bible plainly says, understood in context, it sends people searching for "deeper" truths in the Bible, and thus separates people from scripture's content all the while enforcing in their minds that they are truly Bible believers.  It's akin to the Pharisees arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a needle.  It's like trying to understand the forrest by looking at tree bark under a microscope. 
By dwelling on these "deeper truths" these men are setting themselves up as "experts" and "scholars" who can pretty much teach whatever they want and people will swallow it because of their obvious "deeper knowledge."  They can use these tricks to manipulate and bring loyalty to themselves and their crowd. 
I'm a King James guy.  I've never preached a single message out of anything but the King James, and I don't own anything but a King James Bible.  (Besides my greek texts and some versions that came bundled with Bible software that I never use.)  But I focus on preaching the CONTENT, not the COVER.  Because it is the content that is inspired by God and profitable and that makes the Christian perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.  Not the cover.
Rather than add authority to the scripture, this kind of biblioltry (I've never used that word before, but that's what it is) takes authority away from scripture and puts it on an man.

Yes. This nothing more than re-branded "gnosticism".

Could you clarify further? -- from dim memory of teaching long ago, what Mike Hoggard is saying doesn't seem to match with what I remember of gnosticism.

 

[Walt]

This numerological emphasis a heresy every bit as dangerous as the latin mass.  Rather than focus on what the Bible plainly says, understood in context, it sends people searching for "deeper" truths in the Bible, and thus separates people from scripture's content all the while enforcing in their minds that they are truly Bible believers.  It's akin to the Pharisees arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a needle.  It's like trying to understand the forrest by looking at tree bark under a microscope. 
By dwelling on these "deeper truths" these men are setting themselves up as "experts" and "scholars" who can pretty much teach whatever they want and people will swallow it because of their obvious "deeper knowledge."  They can use these tricks to manipulate and bring loyalty to themselves and their crowd. 
I'm a King James guy.  I've never preached a single message out of anything but the King James, and I don't own anything but a King James Bible.  (Besides my greek texts and some versions that came bundled with Bible software that I never use.)  But I focus on preaching the CONTENT, not the COVER.  Because it is the content that is inspired by God and profitable and that makes the Christian perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.  Not the cover.
Rather than add authority to the scripture, this kind of biblioltry (I've never used that word before, but that's what it is) takes authority away from scripture and puts it on an man.

I agree; plus the fact that Mr Hoggard lies, and forces numbers & phrases to fit into his scheme.

He appears to believe in a works salvation as well.

I do think the KJV is the best, but not because of some mystical numbers - I think it was translated using excellent scholarship with an excellent attitude from preserved texts. (just my opinion; prefer to keep this thread of Mr Hoggard, and not start a Bible Version debate).

 

[Walt]

Folks, you can reject these facts all you want. But you cannot deny them. They have already been shown.

If you want to verify these Numerical codes and patterns, then I suggest you get the King James Pure Bible Search software:


http://www.dewtronics.com/KingJamesPureBibleSearch/


It is totally free to download.

Also, if you have the latest version of quickverse, then that should work as well. As long as your Bible search software does an accurate word for word count.

For instance, if you type in the word "church" then all the Scriptures which have the word "church" will show up.

And if you type in the word "churches" (plural) then only the Scriptures which have that particular word will show up in the results, and it will show you the total amount of times that each particular word occurs in the Scriptures.

I'm sorry; your guy lies and shades the numbers to make them come up right...

With thanks to http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com for the following:


According to Hoggard, the number 33 is very important -- the Masons 33rd level is the highest level. He says that 33 is the number of the beast and that this is why the phrase "the beast" is found 33 times in the Bible. He says it is also the age of Christ when He died, as He was showing the destruction of His enemies when on the cross. (Somehow this dual and opposite use of the number both representing the beast and the destruction of the beast (and other antichrists) confuses me, and confusion is not from God). Now, finding the phrase "the beast" 33 times in the New Testament sounds really good as evidence to back up his assertion, except for one little problem. It isn't exactly correct. Oh, yes, if you google the phrase "the beast" in a New Testament search engine, you will find the phrase "the beast" 33 times in the KJV. However it is not as Hoggard represents it. The first time it is used, it is used to refer to a snake that bit Paul on the hand. The other 32 times, it is found in Revelation and it does refer to the beast known as the antichrist. But then if one looks a little more closely one finds that the word "beast" (without the "the") as referring to the antichrist is mentioned 37 times in Revelation and each time it refers to the antichrist. So the number of the beast is not 33 as Hoggard is saying to make his numeric point. He is deliberately manipulating data for his own purposes.


This kind of thing is the problem that I have with Mike Hoggard.

 

[Walt]

I counted every time the word "the" used in the KJV and it was a whole bunch. That has got to mean something.  :-\

Well "bunch" has five letters, and five is the number of grace, so the meaning is that the Bible is full of grace!

(see how easy it is!)

 

[Walt]

especially when you consider that a well known group of people claiming to be christian who predated the time of king james and were also heavily into numerology were the masons and templars.......  of course being originally builders by trade they had a reason to be obsessed with mathematics and numerical sequences ..... but when you carry that obsession into other things especially into the translation or interpretation of a Bible now you have created a cult......

Interesting point - Mr Hoggard is fascinated by the masons...

 

[Biblebeliever]

that is the whackiest thing i ever heard anybody say about the king james Bible..... ... like i said before i have a lot of respect for some of the people in king james only camp.... ones that i know for a fact don;t believe in this mystical numerology thing....... if you have any respect for them too then you should reconsider what you;re saying here......... because in my opinion you are embarrassing them.... ... you are embarrassing me on behalf of them.....  and i;m not even kjvo....

What makes it sound whacky?  And what exactly is embarrasing about it?

Could it just be that you are trying to skirt the issue here?

And no, there are more and more Christians who are beginning to look into the study of Bible Numerology. 

And they can see that these numerical patterns shows that there is an order through out the Scriptures. Now if you never looked into this issue regarding Scriptural numerics. Well then you just will not know the significance that numbers and their biblical meaning have in regard to Bible Prophecy.
And again, it is not mythical. I am aware that most people;  as soon as they hear the word "numerology," they automatically equate that with mysticism. Mike Hoggard was also very hesitant about looking into the study of Bible Numerology. Why? Well because he did exactly what you and several others are doing. But thankfully; he decided to study the issue for himself.  And the more he studied this phenomenom of Bible Numerology, the more he became convinced that the Authorized Version is the inerrant and infallible word of God

I recommend getting his book on the King James Code. And there are other books out there on the study of Bible Numerology. Dr. Peter S. Ruckman also wrote a book on this subject. 

At least take a look into it.

 

[BALAAM]

This kind of reminds me of Harold Camping. He started to go through the Bible and find numbers and would skip around and say, "Now if you take this number from here and add it to this number here it equals x. Now if you take x and find out how many times they used x for washing dishes you come up with y. Now if you count how many outhouses they probably had in Jerusalem and subtract y we can correctly assume that this is the year that Jesus will come back to earth.

When it didn't happen he just came up with another number and said that he had incorrectly counted the outhouses with two seats and that is the mistake he made. He just came up with another date. Didn't happen then either.

Seriously, a guy that can come up with this kind of stuff needs to get a real job! Working for a living can kind of knock all this nonsense out of guys like this.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Reminds me of Mr. Miller in 1844 figured out by numerology that the coming of the Lord was at a certain date. Got all his followers on a mountain top to wait, sold all their stuff, nothing happened as with Mr. Camping. Mrs. White, along with her husband, picked up the pieces and Seventh Day Advent-ism was born.
KJVOs picked this up from Advent-ism and Mrs. White.

No man knows the day or hour only our Father.

 

[freelance_christian]

I don't get it. What's the point?

Maybe I can HElp ISolate it for you: Find the unUsuaLLy easy cOde Found enCRypted in this messAge Pate.