Stuff Fundies Like is right on this one (and I hate to admit it)

[Timothy]

This peculiar view of wine by those in the fundy camp has more to do with prohibition than any honest examination of the biblical text or the historical belief or understanding of the true church throughout history...that being said, that's what makes them fundy's, they're here to correct even the Scripture with the KJV (oops, now I have reopened another can of worms...bad me!)

They would rather insult a newly saved person (who still drinks) than allow God to change them. At least, that is how it looks to me anyway ...

 

[rsc2a]

This peculiar view of wine by those in the fundy camp has more to do with prohibition than any honest examination of the biblical text or the historical belief or understanding of the true church throughout history...that being said, that's what makes them fundy's, they're here to correct even the Scripture with the KJV (oops, now I have reopened another can of worms...bad me!)

One definition of Fundy: KJVO except where the KJV says "wine".

 

[Ransom]

Preaching teen camp this week.  Will preach four more in the next five weeks.  Preaching 33 times in this first three week stint (including preaching at my own church each weekend).

Well, aren't you awesome and holy!

I'll bet Jesus really loves you. Just not as much as you do. *snort*

 

[Castor Muscular]

I'm LCVO

31 Dun luk at teh catnip,
      eben if iz shineh,
      eben if iz nom!
32 Is gonna bite u
      an u gets sik.
33 U see funneh thinz
      an dun think rite.
34 Iz liek sleepin on boat,
      way high up.
35 "Dey hitz me," u sez, "but I'z not hurt!
      Dey hitz me a lot, but I dun feel it!
      I wakes up nao
      and haz moar catnip?"

 

[subllibrm]

So Jesus made a new batch of old wine.

Got it.

Why not, he made Adam a full grown man.

 

[subllibrm]

Wow.  Well, I am sure you will have an opportunity in the future to talk to Him personally about your opinion.  Let the judgement seat guide your thinking, not the sinful culture.

He chose the wording. I just read it.

Since you think you know what the word "wine" means, perhaps you could point us to a Greek lexicon that proves your point.

Keep in mind... misreading and misapplying the Bible is worse than being drunk. One has eternal consequences, the other just gives you a headache in the morning.

Preaching teen camp this week.  Will preach four more in the next five weeks.  Preaching 33 times in this first three week stint (including preaching at my own church each weekend).  Some have nothing better to do than sip wine while defending their right to do so on a forum.  Again -- every idle word.  You'll get to look Christ in the eye and explain to him why you spent time accusing Him of producing and distributing alcohol. 

I do now understand why you encourage drinking.  It would take a blurred mental state to accept your logic or your interpretation of the passage.

Could you cram any more false accusations in there?

 

[Frag]

Preaching teen camp this week.  Will preach four more in the next five weeks.  Preaching 33 times in this first three week stint (including preaching at my own church each weekend).  Some have nothing better to do than sip wine while defending their right to do so on a forum.  Again -- every idle word.  You'll get to look Christ in the eye and explain to him why you spent time accusing Him of producing and distributing alcohol. 

I do now understand why you encourage drinking.  It would take a blurred mental state to accept your logic or your interpretation of the passage.

And there you have it! Your reward! You got to brag to all who read this forum about what a great servant of God you are, all the while assuming you are the only one, and you got to say "Raca" to fellow believers! You're on a roll! I'm sure our Saviour is especially proud of you.

"to all who read this forum"  Wow.  Yep, most of the planet now knows.  :

Just a simple explanation of why I can't spend all day on here arguing with idiots.  Will make a point now to preach against booze at every camp.  So there -- feel better.  You all inspired me. 

 

[subllibrm]

Preaching teen camp this week.  Will preach four more in the next five weeks.  Preaching 33 times in this first three week stint (including preaching at my own church each weekend).  Some have nothing better to do than sip wine while defending their right to do so on a forum.  Again -- every idle word.  You'll get to look Christ in the eye and explain to him why you spent time accusing Him of producing and distributing alcohol. 

I do now understand why you encourage drinking.  It would take a blurred mental state to accept your logic or your interpretation of the passage.

And there you have it! Your reward! You got to brag to all who read this forum about what a great servant of God you are, all the while assuming you are the only one, and you got to say "Raca" to fellow believers! You're on a roll! I'm sure our Saviour is especially proud of you.

"to all who read this forum"  Wow.  Yep, most of the planet now knows.  :

Just a simple explanation of why I can't spend all day on here arguing with idiots.  Will make a point now to preach against booze at every camp.  So there -- feel better.  You all inspired me.

Frag,

Your boasting would be no less awful if the only one you bragged to was yourself. It isn't the size of the audience, it's the condition of the heart. You can't have a conversation here without telling us how you do it is so much better than everyone else.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Just a simple explanation of why I can't spend all day on here arguing with idiots. 

..and yet, you're still here....

 

[Frag]

Dust...................dust......................dust...................dust...................

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Frag]Just a simple explanation of why I can't spend all day on here arguing with idiots.  Will make a point now to preach against booze at every camp.  So there -- feel better.  You all inspired me.
[/quote]

You're going to make it a point to preach gnosticism at youth camp?

 

[Fresh Air]

And of course the hubris inherent in this condemnation is "when an interpretation is contrary to mine then it is wrong, and I will call the wrongly opinionated individual a fundy in order to marginalize them".

Bingo.

 

[Fresh Air]

This peculiar view of wine by those in the fundy camp has more to do with prohibition than any honest examination of the biblical text or the historical belief or understanding of the true church throughout history...that being said, that's what makes them fundy's, they're here to correct even the Scripture with the KJV (oops, now I have reopened another can of worms...bad me!)

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm dishonest and obviously a person of no integrity.

That's a great way, not only to win me over to your point of view, but to express the grace of Christ...

<tongue planted firmly in cheek>

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm dishonest and obviously a person of no integrity.

That's a great way, not only to win me over to your point of view, but to express the grace of Christ...

<tongue planted firmly in cheek>

Let me re-word your response to show how some of us see the "fundy" reaction to our view on alcohol:

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm a drunkard.

Case in point:

I would take the time to school all you idiots who claim Jesus produced alcohol....

...but I learned a long time ago not to argue with a drunk.

 

[christundivided]

This peculiar view of wine by those in the fundy camp has more to do with prohibition than any honest examination of the biblical text or the historical belief or understanding of the true church throughout history...that being said, that's what makes them fundy's, they're here to correct even the Scripture with the KJV (oops, now I have reopened another can of worms...bad me!)

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm dishonest and obviously a person of no integrity.

That's a great way, not only to win me over to your point of view, but to express the grace of Christ...

<tongue planted firmly in cheek>

Don't pretend you feel any different toward those you disagree with concerning the issue. Yes, it is dishonest to contrive such a silly position and then claim you are informed on the matter. You have done little to participate in this conversation. You have basically objected and then hid while others try to present a valid argument for you.

 

[subllibrm]

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm a drunkard.

Don't forget idiot.

Frag loves to call people idiots.

In Christian love of course.

8)

FWIW Pastor Tom has not been the one using that type of language.

 

[T-Bone]

This peculiar view of wine by those in the fundy camp has more to do with prohibition than any honest examination of the biblical text or the historical belief or understanding of the true church throughout history...that being said, that's what makes them fundy's, they're here to correct even the Scripture with the KJV (oops, now I have reopened another can of worms...bad me!)

Let me get this straight, and it is important b/c I have seen it repeatedly on this thread. If I study my Bible and arrive at a different conclusion than you about the alcohol issue then I'm dishonest and obviously a person of no integrity.

That's a great way, not only to win me over to your point of view, but to express the grace of Christ...

<tongue planted firmly in cheek>

Don't know about you brother...but I am saying if you want to deal with the word "honesty"...are you saying that your upbringing and your particular fundamentalist schooling, that the western churches involvement in the time of the prohibition have no impact on your stance?  Do you honestly say that you are letting the Bible say what it says and trust it to mean what it says?  If that is what you are saying and you believe you are being honest and dealing with the text with integrity, then I will let the Lord judge that, but I will say that your conclusions and that of those speaking your position I believe to be incorrect.  Hope this ads clarity, because I am sure you feel my conclusion is mistaken also, but I can tell you mine comes for the position of a teetotaller who has studied and believe that the Word speaks clearly about the matter.

 

[FreeToBeMe]

FWIW Pastor Tom has not been the one using that type of language.

You're right, he hasn't; but he doesn't do a very good job of distancing himself from his "brothers" that do.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Ha! Just give us the lexical information that proves your opinion, then you can say I was wrong for quoting Louw-Nida.

Until then, I will hide my overly zealous hubris behind their work.

8)

The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary
"It is important to note that the Hebrew word tirosh, "grape juice, unfermented wine," appearing 38 times in the Old Testament (Harris, "tirosh," Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, 2:969), is almost exclusively translated by oinos (36 times). In other words, oinos can and does refer to either unfermented or fermented wine in the Septuagint."

"In the New Testament oinos is used 33 times. Concerning the Parable of the Wineskins, the juice would be acted on by yeast from the old wineskins and would begin to foam. Such gases could split any wineskin, but especially an older one that was already stretched out (Matthew 9:17; Luke 5:37,38). New wine would be grape juice (or a grapeade) mode from grape syrup while old wine would be 2 to 3 years old."

"Grapes were generally harvested in mid to late summer (Hopkins, "The Subsistence Struggles of Early Israel," p.186) and, to prevent spoilage in the intense heat, had to be processed immediately. Stored wine naturally fermented unless it was boiled down or kept cool, ..."

"There have been endless tirades and debates on the nature of the wine made by our Lord at the wedding in Cana (John 2:9,10). Sides are drawn not on the basis of the word oinos, but on the view of abstinence held. The issue seems to be whether or not Jesus would create fermented wine and contribute to the further inebriation of the wedding guests. (Had the wine been unfermented, it would not have had time to ferment since it was consumed immediately.) From the Septuagint usage noted above, the oinos could be fermented or unfermented. Suffice it to say, the "better" wine of course does not in any way imply or demand a more alcoholic, or even an alcoholic, wine at all (one would presume that any wine that God had made would be better than man-made wine)."

Sources: Strong 3631, Bauer 562, Moulton-Milligan 444, Kittel 5:162-66, Liddell-Scott 1207, Colin Brown 3:918,922

 

[16KJV11]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whosoever is deceived thereby is unwise. ....wondering what God was trying to say here!




Nobody starts out to be an alcoholic....my children have never met their grandmother (husbands side) because she enjoyed drinking (a little won't hurt you), they never met their great uncle nor great grandparents, because of course drinking doesn't hurt anyone!!! In the past two months they have  seen how alcohol has deceived and deeply hurt and altered their uncles life! As a 54 year old man now looks back on his life and sees how he neglected his boys, lied to church members and friends. Gone from a good paying job to joless and penniless! How not having a loving mother because she was busy enjoying life and drinking was more important than her boys!  My innocent children have to feel this loss and pain because what started off so innocent as one drink lead to controlling their relatives life. So when people TRY to explain why drinking is not bad, and how God doesn't discourage it has obviously never experienced how it really affects lives. Go ahead have that drink but you are lying to yourself if you think it doesn't hurt people.

When I started drinking, I thought, I'll just have one so I wouldn't look like the only prude in a crowd.
Several fights, car accidents, binges and years later, the only thing that caused me to quit was Jesus.
Funny, many of the problems I hear about in my church family' lives stem from or at least contain alcohol.
Rehab centers are full with people who don't have a disease, but are drunks, and they started out with...just one.
Cemeteries are filled with people who started out with...just one.
Drinking alcohol is like playing with poisonous snakes.
And even if YOU can handle it, the person that you influence to drink may not be able to.
Personally, I don't want to be responsible for being an encouragement to someone elses' demise.