So why the drastic change in beliefs?

[Binaca Chugger]

My how this thread has abandoned the OP.

 

[sword]

Perhaps it is you.  What made you make the drastic change?  Maybe you know another HAC student who has changed.  What caused the change?

Each generation of preachers seem to change what they preach and believe from the generation that came before them. In some cases they do this over their lifetime of influence, others have done it rather quickly as the previous generation passes on.

Name any major leader from the past and my guess is if he was alive today IFB churches would not let them preach in their pulpits. In every case we would find fault in something they preach or do.

Moody, Ironside, Rice, Norris, Truett, Barnhouse, Edwards, R.G. Lee, Jones, Ryle, Appleman, Green

They are held up as great men but they differed from most churches today and each other on many things. Every generation of preachers seems to drop the standards and preferences they don't like and create new ones to fit their needs.

You can see the same transformation taking place today. As the son's & son in laws of great pastors replace this generations famous pastors we are seeing these churches evolve rapidly. The younger men are changing the face of fundamentalism at an amazing rate.

 

[RAIDER]

My how this thread has abandoned the OP.

This is the pure essence of the FFF!!

 

[RAIDER]

Perhaps it is you.  What made you make the drastic change?  Maybe you know another HAC student who has changed.  What caused the change?

Each generation of preachers seem to change what they preach and believe from the generation that came before them. In some cases they do this over their lifetime of influence, others have done it rather quickly as the previous generation passes on.

Name any major leader from the past and my guess is if he was alive today IFB churches would not let them preach in their pulpits. In every case we would find fault in something they preach or do.

Moody, Ironside, Rice, Norris, Truett, Barnhouse, Edwards, R.G. Lee, Jones, Ryle, Appleman, Green

They are held up as great men but they differed from most churches today and each other on many things. Every generation of preachers seems to drop the standards and preferences they don't like and create new ones to fit their needs.

You can see the same transformation taking place today. As the son's & son in laws of great pastors replace this generations famous pastors we are seeing these churches evolve rapidly. The younger men are changing the face of fundamentalism at an amazing rate.

So, In your opinion where would that put fundamentalism in 10 years?

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

But..but..did you dress up for Easter??? 

I always wear a suit coat and suit pants but no tie. I haven't worn a tie in almost a year except to funerals. And believe it or not when I was in hac we went on vacation and planned on going to church. When I found out that I had forgotten to bring a tie we didn't go because I said I will not go to church without a tie.
[/quote]

He was such a great HACker!!!!!!

 

[Vince Massi]

I've rejected the doctrine that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness. I've also rejected "easy believism" (the doctrine that you are saved by saying the words "Jesus please save me" and meaning it).

Other than that, I pretty well believe what HAC taught in the opening years.

 

[Torrent v.3]

As I was watching the David Nelms video on another thread I began to think about how much he has changed since his HAC days.  I have several friends who graduated from HAC that no longer call themselves "Baptist".

As we grow older it is normal to have some changes in what we believe about many things.  I'm sure we can all look back to our days at HAC and what we believed, only to see that we have now changed in some areas.  This thread is not to discuss those who have made a few minor changes.  This thread is not to discuss those who are backslidden and totally out of church.  This thread is to discuss what causes someone to seemingly be on board with the HAC thought pattern when they graduate, yet they have now gone a totally different route in their beliefs.

Perhaps it is you.  What made you make the drastic change?  Maybe you know another HAC student who has changed.  What caused the change?

I think people start to get to a place where they are thinking for themselves.  When we are young, we hear older Christians and take what they say for granted. Especailly at HAC where they keep people so busy they don't have time to read serious theology books.  They keep the students working 7 days a week so they are tired and don't have the energy or desire to differ, so they just accept.  Then they move along in life and start reading or listening to someone else and the pressure is off and they have time to think and pray and they follow the path they want to, whether that is evangelical or pentecostal or calvinism or whatever.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I have departed from Performance Based Christianity.  I live as I do as a natural outflow of love and thankfulness to a holy God who so loved me that he made a way for my salvation.  I no longer live as I do to prove to God my dedication to Him and my worthiness of His love and blessings.  The increase of the kingdom of God is not my personal responsibility.  I do not condemn those who have abandoned the faith.  Rather, I have the responsibility to testify of Jesus Christ, to teach doctrine to young Christians and to seek to restore those who have fallen in a spirit of meekness.

What affected this?  God broke me from trying to prove my sincerity and worthiness of God's blessings.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I no longer attack anyone who is not of my stripe of Baptist.  Though I may have a civil debate about certain topics of disagreement, I do not write them off and make wild accusations about them.

What affected this?  I read Baptist history and learned that God has used a multitude of people that do not agree with me on everything to bring about awakenings and the increase of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

Yep.  An attitude.

 

[IFB X-Files]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

Yep.  An attitude.

LOL!  Do you have a "chapter and verse" for this attitude?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

Yep.  An attitude.

LOL!  Do you have a "chapter and verse" for this attitude?

Amos 6:1 - Woe to them that are at ease in Zion...
Luk 6:24  But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Luk 6:26  Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Job 15:34  For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Mat 23:25  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mar 7:6  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Rom 2:24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Is that enough?

 

[IFB X-Files]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

Yep.  An attitude.

LOL!  Do you have a "chapter and verse" for this attitude?

Amos 6:1 - Woe to them that are at ease in Zion...
Luk 6:24  But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Luk 6:26  Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Job 15:34  For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Mat 23:25  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mar 7:6  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Rom 2:24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Is that enough?

Yes.  It's my job to get HACkers to read their Bibles.  You pass (for today).

 

[Torrent v.3]

I have grown weary of churches with a "Look at me" mentality rather than a "Look at Jesus" mentality.

Though many IFB churches claim they simply point people to Jesus, they are actually point people to themselves with all of their accomplishments for the Lord.  It goes something like: Look what I did for Jesus!  Look how important I am to God!  Look at my level of sacrifice!

What affected this?  I watched "pastors" travel the country to receive praise of men, preach a sugar-stick sermon, challenge others to give and do more.  These "pastors" were never home to pastor their people.  When a church member went to counsel, five minutes would be given, max, because the pastor was needed in so many other places.  The "pastor" is too busy to visit his people, or take part in personal evangelism.  He can tell others what to do, but he is above doing it himself.  I realized that the goal of these "pastors" was to make a name for themselves, rather than helping people.  The true purpose of the church was abandoned so that the MOG could be lauded.

Do I detect an "attitude"?  Just kidding.  Very true.

Yep.  An attitude.

LOL!  Do you have a "chapter and verse" for this attitude?

Amos 6:1 - Woe to them that are at ease in Zion...
Luk 6:24  But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Luk 6:26  Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Job 15:34  For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Mat 23:25  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mar 7:6  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Rom 2:24  For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

Is that enough?

OOH. Pain.  Deep, serious pain. That hurt.

 

[Vince Massi]

My friend Torrence writes :

I think people start to get to a place where they are thinking for themselves.  When we are young, we hear older Christians and take what they say for granted. Especailly at HAC where they keep people so busy they don't have time to read serious theology books.  They keep the students working 7 days a week so they are tired and don't have the energy or desire to differ, so they just accept.  Then they move along in life and start reading or listening to someone else and the pressure is off and they have time to think and pray and they follow the path they want to, whether that is evangelical or pentecostal or calvinism or whatever.

Folks, I'm not into conspiracies, but the more the students talk among themselves, the more likely they are to discover that they are being lied to. Having preaching on the busses to church, forcing students to listen to Jack Hyles on the radio, demanding extremely clean dorms, making them attend extra preaching services, etc., did help to keep the students from having time to share information.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Folks, I'm not into conspiracies, but the more the students talk among themselves, the more likely they are to discover that they are being lied to.

....demanding extremely clean dorms.....

What??  What's the option?  Filth?  Nope, super clean is the only way to go.  It cuts down on disease and illness.

 

[RebeccasRants]

Just took one of my boys to BJU orientation this past weekend.  Guess that was a drastic change of beliefs for me seeing as how when I was 18 I thought anyone who attended BJU was little better than a pagan!  Some VP greeted everyone with a SHORT history of the university and stressed how the glory goes to (gasp!!!!) God and how they want BJU to be a spiritual blessing to the students.  Couldn't help but imagine that if I'd been a HAC it would have been a LONG history of the college with a lot of glory and bragging going to men.  Guess I've officially lost my Hacker status! 

 

[IFB X-Files]

  Guess I've officially lost my Hacker status! 

No, you've just matured.  What is going to be your son's major?

We visited the campus of BJU in 2010.  It was very nice.  Here's the thing, they will weaken or attack a persons belief in a perfect Bible.  Just go through their bookstore and you'll find that out.  But (and this is a "big" but) going to a school that teaches we have a perfect Bible (which I believe we do) does not mean that grads of that school will turn out any more spiriitual than going to BJU.  It all depends on the students character and upbringing.  I pray your son has a wonderful experience at BJU.