Music in Ministry
- Thread starter Binaca Chugger
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Pastor Marty said:
I disagree. Your illustrations are exceptions that prove the rule more than not. The proverbial statement is sex, drugs, and ... You can throw a dart in the music history of the last 45 years and hit an immoral rock musician, but it would take a careful and diligent search to find the moral ones.
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Tom Brennan said:
translation: Your examples prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that music is mentioned in Scripture. Let me find anything else in Scripture (preferably absurd to cement the point) and do the same thing to see how consistent you are willing to be.
Tom Brennan said:
That is something I expect from a teenage girl. not a grown man
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Just me said:
Nothing in the text says there wasn't lyrics. Nothing says the music was the reason the evil spirit left. (Ironically, the text actually states the reason, and it wasn't the music). Nothing says the music was "good".
I
Oh please, Helen Keller could see this:And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him
rsc2a said:
Oh please, Helen Keller could see this:And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him
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rsc2a said:
1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
Also, combating your opinion of the effects of music on the emotions and attitude of persons, many disagree with you, including Gill:
and thou shalt be well: music being a means of cheering the spirits, and removing melancholy and gloomy apprehensions of things, and so of restoring to better health of body and disposition of mind; and that music has such an effect on the bodies and minds of men is certain from observation and experience in all ages. Music has been found to be medicine to various diseases, not only for the curing of the bite of vipers, and of the tarantula, but for easing the pains of the sciatica, and for helping persons labouring under the disorders of the frenzy (k); and Pythagoras used to compose the mind, and remove the perturbations of it, by the use of the harp (l), the thing here advised to.
And lastly, music therapy is a recognized and reputable treatment of some maladies.
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So:
Some Scripture and several quick quips later - We basically seem to be left with two contrasting viewpoints:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Music itself is amoral. Nothing in music or about music effects the emotion, mood, spirit or heart. Thus, any music one desires by which to worship God or personally enjoy is pleasing to God.
[*]Music is either moral or immoral. Music effects emotion, mood, spirit and heart. Thus, one must be careful which music he uses to worship God or personally enjoy.
[/list]
The latter seems obviously correct to me. All arguments promoting a variety of music seem to simply decry any use of Scripture to support the opposing argument as ambiguous (Yeah, I get it, the response here is: But it is ambiguous). Still, music does definitely effect our emotion, mood, spirit and heart.
So, how can we determine which music is acceptable for worship and which is not. Still, there must be a line somewhere. There must be some instruction. The reference to David's harp playing may give us an idea, but does that mean only harp playing without words should be used in worship? Of course not, because the Psalms had words. The temple choir (pattern for heaven, right?) had a full orchestra (for the period). Just about everybody who has responded has agreed that there should be some line drawn, but where?
I guess the real question then becomes: Other than simply my opinion, is there anything that tells me which music will effect which mood and should therefore be used or excluded in worship? (Scripture preferably and science secondarily).
Some Scripture and several quick quips later - We basically seem to be left with two contrasting viewpoints:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Music itself is amoral. Nothing in music or about music effects the emotion, mood, spirit or heart. Thus, any music one desires by which to worship God or personally enjoy is pleasing to God.
[*]Music is either moral or immoral. Music effects emotion, mood, spirit and heart. Thus, one must be careful which music he uses to worship God or personally enjoy.
[/list]
The latter seems obviously correct to me. All arguments promoting a variety of music seem to simply decry any use of Scripture to support the opposing argument as ambiguous (Yeah, I get it, the response here is: But it is ambiguous). Still, music does definitely effect our emotion, mood, spirit and heart.
So, how can we determine which music is acceptable for worship and which is not. Still, there must be a line somewhere. There must be some instruction. The reference to David's harp playing may give us an idea, but does that mean only harp playing without words should be used in worship? Of course not, because the Psalms had words. The temple choir (pattern for heaven, right?) had a full orchestra (for the period). Just about everybody who has responded has agreed that there should be some line drawn, but where?
I guess the real question then becomes: Other than simply my opinion, is there anything that tells me which music will effect which mood and should therefore be used or excluded in worship? (Scripture preferably and science secondarily).
C
christundivided
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Binaca Chugger said:
1 Cor 7:40 should show you that people other than YOURSELF have a the Spirit of God. Those same people have different opinions. Those SAME people worship God with music you do not approve. Paul gave his advice as one that had the Spirit of God, yet, he knew that it would not FIT everyone. You are the one trying to FIT everyone into your little mold.
1Co 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
So, a Grammy winning song performed Bryan Adams can't evoke a GOOD spiritual response in anyone? Really? Is this really CRAZY to you?
I can tell you that I personally wouldn't like such but I would not go so far as to say that it is WRONG, or that people CAN"T genuinely worship God from a Bryan Adams song. First, let me remind you that they are not singing it to YOU. Second, your not God and what you think of it does not matter. Again, I'll say that I have been surprised at what kind of music has evoked in me a feeling of adoration for my Lord. It really doesn't matter what you think of adoration at that point. I'm not adoring you nor am I even considering you. David might have had the same problem when he danced before the Lord. Remember that story? Who when barren and for what?
You have a very poor understanding of sanctification. Believe it or not, you've already been sanctified. The sanctification mention to Timothy dealt with fornication and separating himself from men that proclaimed the resurrection had passed. It had nothing to do with what genre of music was being used to worship God. Don't make it out to be anything else.
I've got bad news for you. There have been many "preachers" who's churches sang "good old hymns" and at the same time the pastors were running around on their wives. By your same logic, why would I want to use "good old hymns" to worship God.... when they are so commonly associated with "sex"????? and EVIL????
See, I can do it too.
I hope you do know that Ray Charles took some old hymns and used them to produce some very popular music. So can I thus reject those good old hymns? Or should I just reject them when the opposite happens? Same thing with Elvis Presley.
C
christundivided
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qwerty said:
Its irrelevant. You don't know WHAT tune was played. It might of been something like "When you love a women"!!!! Somehow I don't think it was anything like "There is a fountain filled with Blood".
Can you show anywhere from the Scripture were music had a negative impact? I know a few that are commonly used but they are rather silly to use.
C
christundivided
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Binaca Chugger said:
Would there be any reason someone couldn't worship to a song like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvar4ZsqsEo
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ALAYMAN said:
It's quite simple. Does the text say that the spirit fled because music was played or because Saul started feeling better?
P.S. I've never said that music doesn't affect the emotions and attitude of people. I've said that the same music can have completely different (even opposite) effects on different people.
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Binaca Chugger said:
3. Music itself is amoral. Music does affect the emotions and attitude of people. In fact, the same music can have completely different (even opposite) effects on different people. Thus, any type of music one desires by which to worship God or personally enjoy can be pleasing to God.
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]So, how can we determine which music is acceptable for worship and which is not. Still, there must be a line somewhere. There must be some instruction. The reference to David's harp playing may give us an idea, but does that mean only harp playing without words should be used in worship? Of course not, because the Psalms had words. The temple choir (pattern for heaven, right?) had a full orchestra (for the period). Just about everybody who has responded has agreed that there should be some line drawn, but where?[/quote]
Like CU said, something that is obscene (or the like) wouldn't be appropriate. The line should be based on what the word are actually saying, not on what type of genre the music happens to be.
[quote author=Binaca Chugger]I guess the real question then becomes: Other than simply my opinion, is there anything that tells me which music will effect which mood and should therefore be used or excluded in worship? (Scripture preferably and science secondarily).[/quote]
Short answer: no.
Long answer: It's dependent on a host of issues such as culture, situation, expectation and, as a result, there is no "one-size-fits-all" answer.
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Binaca Chugger said:
Well, the same Bryan Adams sat in my van just about a week and a half ago as my wife picked him up from his hotel to take him to his concert venue.
Not that this pertains to the topic at hand, so carry on!
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qwerty said:
"Now the distressing spirit from the Lord came upon Saul as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand. And David was playing music with his hand. Then Saul sought to pin David to the wall with the spear, but he slipped away from Saul
C
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Smellin Coffee said: