Music in Ministry

[Castor Muscular]

I agree that Job is the oldest book but Cain's descendants preceded Job.  I am also referencing music on earth not in heaven but from this text all I can tell is that they were singing.  I do not see any mention of music.  Now over in Genesis 4:21 I do not see singing but I do see music.

They were singing the Barney "I Love You" song.  Yeah, my conclusion is based on apocryphal writings, but I'm pretty sure they're inspired. 

barney I LOVE YOU

 

[prophet]

Lambkins.  This is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friend.

Sent from my N860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[samspade]

Why is it OK to use the OT to define music, but not worship? (and thanks for the kind words, Tom)

To make clear, I'm not saying that there isn't acceptable/not acceptable music for a church service. I disagree with the criteria you are using to define what that is. But it appears we may not even agree on what a church service is for.

Your last sentence is precisely it. Worship dramatically changes from the OT to the NT. Worship is our response when we see God, a humble adoration of Him. In the OT it was done at/toward the place where God was. In the NT it is done any/every where in spirit. You don't go to church to 'worship' God. You can worship God at church, for He is there, but that isn't its purpose. The purpose of the church service isn't worship. It is edification. And the purpose of how the church service is structured is designed to lend itself to edification, not worship.

When you take this latter approach it informs how you balance music/preaching. And in relation to music itself it informs how you use it. It no longer becomes something used to 'usher people into the presence of God.' You no longer have a 'worship leader'. You no longer design it to 'praise and worship.' (I realize that praise/worship is edifying, but they are now no longer the goal/aim.) When you do that, the goal of the song/music portion of your service becomes much less, how shall I say this, emotional.

There are millions of American Christians who think that in order to worship they have to go to church, and that said worship is the emotions they feel when they sing. In so doing, they are dramatically shortchanging praise/worship, and twisting the purpose of the actual church service out of shape. The churches they build reflect this scriptural imbalance, IMHO.

What do you consider the goal of the song/music portion of your service?

 

[Fresh Air]

What do you consider the goal of the song/music portion of your service?

Edification. For two reasons:

First, b/c that is the explicit reason to sing given in the two main NT verses about music.

Eph 5:19  Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
...'to the Lord' means you don't sing with the approval of the audience in mind; 'speaking to yourselves' and 'teaching and admonishing one another' indicate that this music is sung with the purpose of edifying the people assembled.

Second, b/c this fits in perfectly with the most important chapter in the NT about the purpose and organization of the church service, I Corinthians 14. In that chapter the word 'edify' is used repeatedly, and the word 'prophesy' (which I take to mean preaching in this context) is used repeatedly. 'Worship' occurs only once, and as a passing reference. Amongst that there are also references made to both prayer/singing in a context that points quite clearly to the purpose of each being the edification of the brethren. I do not believe tongues/continuing revelation are applicable in our day so I do not use those in a church service.

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[rsc2a]

What do you consider the goal of the song/music portion of your service?

Edification. For two reasons:

First, b/c that is the explicit reason to sing given in the two main NT verses about music.

Eph 5:19  Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
...'to the Lord' means you don't sing with the approval of the audience in mind; 'speaking to yourselves' and 'teaching and admonishing one another' indicate that this music is sung with the purpose of edifying the people assembled.

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ... (Ephesians 5:18-20 ESV)

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. (Colossians 3:16-17 ESV)

Right...so "to the Lord" doesn't mean "to the Lord" and "giving thanks to God the Father" doesn't really mean "giving thanks to God the Father". 

[quote author=Tom Brennan]Second, b/c this fits in perfectly with the most important chapter in the NT about the purpose and organization of the church service, I Corinthians 14. In that chapter the word 'edify' is used repeatedly, and the word 'prophesy' (which I take to mean preaching in this context) is used repeatedly. 'Worship' occurs only once, and as a passing reference.[/quote]

False dichotomy. When you do things you outlined, you are worshiping.

[quote author=Tom Brennan]Amongst that there are also references made to both prayer/singing in a context that points quite clearly to the purpose of each being the edification of the brethren. [/quote]

A purpose. Not the purpose.

[quote author=Tom Brennan]I do not believe tongues/continuing revelation are applicable in our day so I do not use those in a church service.[/quote]

...

[quote author=Tom Brennan]26

 

[prophet]

What do you consider the goal of the song/music portion of your service?

Edification. For two reasons:

First, b/c that is the explicit reason to sing given in the two main NT verses about music.

Eph 5:19  Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Col 3:16  Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
...'to the Lord' means you don't sing with the approval of the audience in mind; 'speaking to yourselves' and 'teaching and admonishing one another' indicate that this music is sung with the purpose of edifying the people assembled.

Second, b/c this fits in perfectly with the most important chapter in the NT about the purpose and organization of the church service, I Corinthians 14. In that chapter the word 'edify' is used repeatedly, and the word 'prophesy' (which I take to mean preaching in this context) is used repeatedly. 'Worship' occurs only once, and as a passing reference. Amongst that there are also references made to both prayer/singing in a context that points quite clearly to the purpose of each being the edification of the brethren. I do not believe tongues/continuing revelation are applicable in our day so I do not use those in a church service.

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