Ken Schaap and his group starting a church in Cincinnati

[Sherryh]

Qwerty do you have any info on the missionaries in China...

 

[16KJV11]

Deleted

 

[Fresh Air]

deleted

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Speaking of the team concept, whats the China team doing these days? Is it still even going?

I am also wondering why that one guy and his family left from Team Thailand - Can't remember his name at the moment. What happened? No one seems to know.

I think it is important that missionaries get more than just women and children to attend a church service. You need to get some men involved if you want to train a national to take over. These FBC team missionary churches seem to be top heavy on kids and old women. You can't build a work on that.

Also, I have a problem getting folks to attend church by giving them promotion gifts and or cash for attending 2 hour service that is worth more than 1 or 2 weeks pay than a national makes at his / her job.

Wait a minute.  Back that up.  Hold on.

They do WHAT!?!

Seriously?  That's how they have so many "converts?"

Do like other missionaries - take some time and develop some relationships with these people. If you have English classes, make them practical for every day life rather than 90% of the class being singing English hymns and then teaching on standards. Let's face it, these poor folks show up to learn English to help them with their jobs and to have more job opportunities. Teaching them about the importance of knee length dresses and tapered hair cuts is not accomplishing that. And that sort of junk is being taught at these E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶e̶s̶ .......errrrrrr..... tricked into attending church services. Once you get to know these people, their needs, struggles, hurts, joys, desires, goals, thoughts and become their friends, then you can share the Gospel with them. Asians do not want to be rushed through a 1, 2 3 forget Buddha and pray after me nonsense Gospel

But hey, let's face it, many missionaries on the field are busy teaching Americanism and a 1940's - 50's old time religion church culture rather than Bible. They do things like change an Asian girl's name from Supatra to Sue or Jane or Martha and try to get them to use a knife and fork and sit at an American style table for lunch and dinner. They tell the Asian men to trade in their traditional, "sinful" shirts, pants and sandals for some righteous clothes - long sleeve white shirt, tie and pants that fit them poorly - and don't forget the Stacy Adams shoes and Gold Toe brand dress socks.

Even worse than all of that is when they treat the nationals like slaves, subhuman idiots and children and make fun of them at every chance they get.

It is all true and unless you were there to see, you could no possibly fathom such meanness and arrogance.

These are way serious accusations.  Growing up in Hammond, it is easy for me to believe.  However, the only source is this one post on a forum by an anonymous person (no offense intended).  Can we find some real solid stuff to present to a pastor who is supporting these groups?

 

[Bravo]

I really think that these guys think it will work the same way. And, I wonder how many of these churches that js had started are still having services? Possibly some of the folks on here who still attend fbch could tell us.

I spoke to one guy, who is a good man by the way, that had a house church in Hammond. He said the house church thing was stopped a while back. (possibly will relaunch at some point?) So that leaves South Point and the one Brian Cassada started, LifePoint. Although I do not know if either of those started as house churches?

 

[tobytyler]

Reading posts:

1.  Didn't enjoy hearing KS & JL screaming through their so called "sermons".  Heard them once and that was all I needed.  So glad they're leaving.  They will get a rude awakening when they find that the money train will come to an end and they will have to get a real job and work.  You can't support 5 families and their kids on support.  If they don't they'll flop. 

2.  Wishing Lapina would leave soon.  At the beginning of all this, I kind of felt sorry for him with the burden of the church and finances on him.  Then the true stories of his scheeming started coming out.  Don't trust him.  His rein is over and it's time for him to leave. 

3.  Pastor Wilkerson needs to clean the houses of his church.  Time to get rid of the dead weight of the people who have ridden on the coat tales of the church for many years.  Won't name names but there are many people that need to go.  Time for him to bring in his own people and staff.  I had heard that one of his staff members from CA wouldn't come unless EL was gone.

It's time for FBC to stop the Schaap era and yes Bro. Hyles era.  It's a fresh new church.  Out with the old and in with the new.





#3 is completely accurate.  The one of whom you speak is a FBC raised person who married another FBC raised person from the 60's and know all too well what's been covered from the past.  Get rid of EL and his replacement would be a huge asset to Wilkerson and the church.

 

[Fresh Air]

I really think that these guys think it will work the same way. And, I wonder how many of these churches that js had started are still having services? Possibly some of the folks on here who still attend fbch could tell us.

I spoke to one guy, who is a good man by the way, that had a house church in Hammond. He said the house church thing was stopped a while back. (possibly will relaunch at some point?) So that leaves South Point and the one Brian Cassada started, LifePoint. Although I do not know if either of those started as house churches?

South Holland? And what about the one Dave Parton started? Lake Station maybe?

 

[patriotic]

Seems to me that these churches aren't really quite so independent.  Apparently, he is not leaving the college.  Rather, the college is supporting him through the transition?

No one ever knows the answers to any of these questions. Probably the hope is that he'll be immediately, wildly successful and will funnel lots of students to HAC.

Meanwhile, the little church in Crown Point just decided to give their pastor a new kitchen, and have the church pay for all the materials. And thus it begins... (the pastor posted this on FB, as he is grateful for the new kitchen)

I doubt KS will be funneling students to HAC.  Patriotic is calling the kettle black when she speaks ill of this philosophy.  I personally have no problem with alumni influencing people to attend their alma mater - it is expected in every other part of the world.  However, I just don't see it happening in this situation.

I would imagine he would want to leave all the hurt of the homeland far behind.  The group seems to have already abandoned much of the IFB model to pursue SBC or non-denom vocabulary and methodology.  However, the Hammond pride runs deeper than most of you HACkers can guess for those of us who were born and reared in the system.  Learning how a real church should and does operate is a long process of humility that is not easy.  I see the group stumbling, wondering why and then adapting modern marketing techniques to build a center for emotional highs and man worship.  Soon enough, they will be the fastest growing......... :

I said I was for the church being started.  I don't have a problem with it and I didn't criticize it or call anything black.  (which makes me wonder if your subtle reference to me as a pot indicates someone smoking some.  )

I merely stated my opinion formed from statements of very dear friends I have who still attend and some who are on staff at FBCH and HAC. 

Now, let me go polish my pots and kettles.  They're copper. 

 

[prophet]

Speaking of the team concept, whats the China team doing these days? Is it still even going?

I am also wondering why that one guy and his family left from Team Thailand - Can't remember his name at the moment. What happened? No one seems to know.

I think it is important that missionaries get more than just women and children to attend a church service. You need to get some men involved if you want to train a national to take over. These FBC team missionary churches seem to be top heavy on kids and old women. You can't build a work on that.

Also, I have a problem getting folks to attend church by giving them promotion gifts and or cash for attending 2 hour service that is worth more than 1 or 2 weeks pay than a national makes at his / her job.

Wait a minute.  Back that up.  Hold on.

They do WHAT!?!

Seriously?  That's how they have so many "converts?"

Do like other missionaries - take some time and develop some relationships with these people. If you have English classes, make them practical for every day life rather than 90% of the class being singing English hymns and then teaching on standards. Let's face it, these poor folks show up to learn English to help them with their jobs and to have more job opportunities. Teaching them about the importance of knee length dresses and tapered hair cuts is not accomplishing that. And that sort of junk is being taught at these E̶n̶g̶l̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶e̶s̶ .......errrrrrr..... tricked into attending church services. Once you get to know these people, their needs, struggles, hurts, joys, desires, goals, thoughts and become their friends, then you can share the Gospel with them. Asians do not want to be rushed through a 1, 2 3 forget Buddha and pray after me nonsense Gospel

But hey, let's face it, many missionaries on the field are busy teaching Americanism and a 1940's - 50's old time religion church culture rather than Bible. They do things like change an Asian girl's name from Supatra to Sue or Jane or Martha and try to get them to use a knife and fork and sit at an American style table for lunch and dinner. They tell the Asian men to trade in their traditional, "sinful" shirts, pants and sandals for some righteous clothes - long sleeve white shirt, tie and pants that fit them poorly - and don't forget the Stacy Adams shoes and Gold Toe brand dress socks.

Even worse than all of that is when they treat the nationals like slaves, subhuman idiots and children and make fun of them at every chance they get.

It is all true and unless you were there to see, you could no possibly fathom such meanness and arrogance.

These are way serious accusations.  Growing up in Hammond, it is easy for me to believe.  However, the only source is this one post on a forum by an anonymous person (no offense intended).  Can we find some real solid stuff to present to a pastor who is supporting these groups?

Groupie is as inside a person as we could have.  Up to Groupie to press things.  Last I heard, Ji Lin City HAC was whacked, anyone know?

Anishinaabe

 

[Bruh]

http://teamfaithway.com/

Professional dummies.  Sorry but this is my view on these people.  Yes, they have lived in a bubble and know nothing of the real world.  Would these men, without the help of anyone, except for the Lord, be able to find a real job and support their families? 

I have seen it to often, especially in the last years, that these guys are unable and unwilling to do whatever it takes to support their families.  I feel sorry for their wives and children.  But I'm not giving them a dime do to the fact that they could do something outside of the ministry to bring money home.  There are many men that I have met with families that come out of HAC and HAC type colleges that are very lazy.  Anyway, this is my rant for the day.     

 

[Still There]

Let me ask??!!  Why was KS ordaned at Southpoint and not the church he grew up in?  That one makes me question???

 

[Bruh]

Let me ask??!!  Why was KS ordaned at Southpoint and not the church he grew up in?  That one makes me question???

Not trying to be mean but why don't you ask your Pastor? 

 

[Techmedic]

Seems to me that these churches aren't really quite so independent.  Apparently, he is not leaving the college.  Rather, the college is supporting him through the transition?

By July 23 next year the South Point will be completely autonomous.

KS is not the pastor of SouthPoint in Crown Point, and the one who is pastor is a very good guy. Just...is that really a good idea? Having the church pay for renovations to your home, maybe I am wrong but it seems to be not such a good idea.

The church took a vote on it and agreed to buy the materials.

 

[Techmedic]

I also wonder if this is FBCH's way of getting the Schaaps name from being associated with them.

 

[bozothebuskid]

I'm sure this is FBCH way of saying hit the road jack without being mean about it. I'm sure this has been in the works. I'm sure this isn't the only friendly purge that is going to happen. Just my opinion.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I also wonder if this is FBCH's way of getting the Schaaps name from being associated with them.

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Staying there would be awful hard for KS and crew.  I would think he would want to simply remove himself from the situation.  TO join another church would be to bring much baggage into that church that would probably be unwanted.  Seems like the logical thing to do is to go start a church somewhere.

 

[sword]

My prayers are for them & their new ministry.

I'm sure he will make mistakes like every new pastor. The key will be to learn & grow with each one.
I have often said the children of famous pastors should start a church and/or pastor a small church before they assume the pastorate of their father’s church or some other large work. I'm not going to run down KS for doing just that. I wish them the best.

Remember the famous preacher of our day all made many mistakes when they first got started, only no one was watching. They were able to make mistakes & learn in relative obscurity. KS will not have that luxury.

 

[Fresh Air]

Remember the famous preacher of our day all made many mistakes when they first got started, only no one was watching. They were able to make mistakes & learn in relative obscurity. KS will not have that luxury.

Particularly not when you are asking the world to watch...

 

[tobytyler]

One of the Long's, can't remember which, asked their grandfather, Ed Wolber, to come back to FBC after they'd joined and had become actively involved in another church in NW Indiana.  And now one of the grandkids are bailing to Ohio with Ken Schaap.

I'd like to hear the Wolber's reaction when they heard the news.

 

[brainisengaged]

Remember the famous preacher of our day all made many mistakes when they first got started, only no one was watching. They were able to make mistakes & learn in relative obscurity. KS will not have that luxury.

Particularly not when you are asking the world to watch...

Bingo, Tom Brennan!!!