If not for Dave Hyles.............

[bgwilkinson]

You have no doubt heard Bro. Hyles tell about why he came to Hammond and it may be true, but there is another reason he came to Hammond. That reason was to be with his new friend John R. Rice.

It was John Rice that talked him into coming to Hammond.

Bro. Rice had his headquarters in Wheaton where we would load up on tracts and books for distribution in the work. Wheaton is only about an hour from Hammond. Bro. Rice had decided to launch Bro. Hyles into a nation wide ministry, through preaching at Sword Conferences and working as an editor at the Sword in Wheaton, because of the perceived liberalism of his first national protege Billy Graham.

Billy Graham and Bro. Rice both came to Wheaton in 1940, Billy Graham as a young student at Wheaton College and Bro. Rice as the Editor of the Famous Sword of the Lord.

Both shared a love for soul-winning and evangelism. Bro. Rice was Billy Graham's mentor and promoter onto the national stage by publishing his sermons in the Sword as well as having him speak at National Sword of the Lord conferences. All was well until the early 50s when Billy Graham began to have massive national crusades where millions attended and 10s of thousands were saved. By about 1957 the division over separation was open to all and they went their separate ways. This was where Bro. Rice begin to launch Bro. Hyles onto the national stage the same way he launched Billy Graham.

Thus protege number two and number last was launched into the world of national fundamentalism.

This was a round about way to explain why I am still at FBCH and have never left. Over these many years many mistakes were made. Mean vitriolic language was used by hard preaching fundamentalists and we are just now realizing the heavy price we are paying for not following the LORD in loving one another.

Why would anyone want to be a Christian in light of the way hyper-fundamentalists treat fellow Christians?

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What happened to obeying Jesus rather than man?

It goes without saying, my family has continued to grow over the years, they all attend FBCH, so that also would tend to make me stay put.

This is how I see it, it's my humble opinion.


An interesting theory, and one that could be believable.

Question, what evidence do you have to validate this story? private conversations, letters, public statements, etc?

I have recently finished the excellent book edited by Ray Young of Bro. Hyles letters. The reason I found it so good is that it gave a new insight to young Jack Hyles the pastor. I found that as a young pastor he faced the same problems pastoring that I do, he made many of the same mistakes a lot of us do, and yet God used him in a great way.

The correspondence seems to indicate that it was Lee Johnson's regular letters that kept the door open to FBC Hammond for Bro. Hyles. If letters from Dr. Rice to Dr. Hyles exist Ray Young would have them and boy would they be interesting reading. If you are interested in Jack Hyles life Ray Young is sitting on a treasure trove.

Being close to Dr. Rice might have been in the back of his mind but I don't think it was the main reason. Several years later he refused to leave Hammond and go to Tennessee.

Would like to hear your reasons to support the theory, and btw I like hearing your stories, they give a different perspective.

My observations on Billy Graham - Jack Hyles support came from my sitting quietly in Bro. Rice's office in Wheaton listening to Bro. Rice and my dad discuss Billy Graham and the sadness at the direction his ministry was going, Using possibly unsaved people at the meetings.

I was giving my opinion on the matter. I should say that my opinion was colored by the many sermons and articles in the Sword by both men.

When traveling a thousand miles in the 50s a young person does not have much to do besides read, (there was no interstate highway system, just very narrow 2 lane roads) and read I did. I read every Sword that we got, and that number was massive. We carried several years of back issues to give out.

My support is personal conversations to which I was privy and numerous articles in the Sword from the 50s, as well as Sword conferences we attended where Bro. Rice had Bro. Hyles as a speaker. He stopped having Billy Graham as a guest speaker in the early 50s.

 

[Norefund]

I kind of remember hearing Jack Hyles tell how he decided to come to Hammond. My memory is a little fuzzy but, the story told from the pulpit involved JH falling  asleep while driving and almost rear ending a vehicle. That vehicle was a Hammond organ truck or something like that. He had been fighting God's will and was then "encouraged" by God to come to Hammond by the near miss. Maybe someone remembers is better than I do.

 

[Tennessean]

You have no doubt heard Bro. Hyles tell about why he came to Hammond and it may be true, but there is another reason he came to Hammond. That reason was to be with his new friend John R. Rice.

It was John Rice that talked him into coming to Hammond.

Bro. Rice had his headquarters in Wheaton where we would load up on tracts and books for distribution in the work. Wheaton is only about an hour from Hammond. Bro. Rice had decided to launch Bro. Hyles into a nation wide ministry, through preaching at Sword Conferences and working as an editor at the Sword in Wheaton, because of the perceived liberalism of his first national protege Billy Graham.

Billy Graham and Bro. Rice both came to Wheaton in 1940, Billy Graham as a young student at Wheaton College and Bro. Rice as the Editor of the Famous Sword of the Lord.

Both shared a love for soul-winning and evangelism. Bro. Rice was Billy Graham's mentor and promoter onto the national stage by publishing his sermons in the Sword as well as having him speak at National Sword of the Lord conferences. All was well until the early 50s when Billy Graham began to have massive national crusades where millions attended and 10s of thousands were saved. By about 1957 the division over separation was open to all and they went their separate ways. This was where Bro. Rice begin to launch Bro. Hyles onto the national stage the same way he launched Billy Graham.

Thus protege number two and number last was launched into the world of national fundamentalism.

This was a round about way to explain why I am still at FBCH and have never left. Over these many years many mistakes were made. Mean vitriolic language was used by hard preaching fundamentalists and we are just now realizing the heavy price we are paying for not following the LORD in loving one another.

Why would anyone want to be a Christian in light of the way hyper-fundamentalists treat fellow Christians?

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What happened to obeying Jesus rather than man?

It goes without saying, my family has continued to grow over the years, they all attend FBCH, so that also would tend to make me stay put.

This is how I see it, it's my humble opinion.


An interesting theory, and one that could be believable.

Question, what evidence do you have to validate this story? private conversations, letters, public statements, etc?

I have recently finished the excellent book edited by Ray Young of Bro. Hyles letters. The reason I found it so good is that it gave a new insight to young Jack Hyles the pastor. I found that as a young pastor he faced the same problems pastoring that I do, he made many of the same mistakes a lot of us do, and yet God used him in a great way.

The correspondence seems to indicate that it was Lee Johnson's regular letters that kept the door open to FBC Hammond for Bro. Hyles. If letters from Dr. Rice to Dr. Hyles exist Ray Young would have them and boy would they be interesting reading. If you are interested in Jack Hyles life Ray Young is sitting on a treasure trove.

Being close to Dr. Rice might have been in the back of his mind but I don't think it was the main reason. Several years later he refused to leave Hammond and go to Tennessee.

Would like to hear your reasons to support the theory, and btw I like hearing your stories, they give a different perspective.

My observations on Billy Graham - Jack Hyles support came from my sitting quietly in Bro. Rice's office in Wheaton listening to Bro. Rice and my dad discuss Billy Graham and the sadness at the direction his ministry was going, Using possibly unsaved people at the meetings.

I was giving my opinion on the matter. I should say that my opinion was colored by the many sermons and articles in the Sword by both men.

When traveling a thousand miles in the 50s a young person does not have much to do besides read, (there was no interstate highway system, just very narrow 2 lane roads) and read I did. I read every Sword that we got, and that number was massive. We carried several years of back issues to give out.

My support is personal conversations to which I was privy and numerous articles in the Sword from the 50s, as well as Sword conferences we attended where Bro. Rice had Bro. Hyles as a speaker. He stopped having Billy Graham as a guest speaker in the early 50s.

In listening to Dr. Rice, did you hear of any promise Rice made to Hyles, i.e. come here and I'll promote you more in the Sword? I'll have you preach more, etc or is that just what you came away with from the conversation?

 

[RAIDER]

In listening to Dr. Rice, did you hear of any promise Rice made to Hyles, i.e. come here and I'll promote you more in the Sword? I'll have you preach more, etc or is that just what you came away with from the conversation?

Now there you go making the rubber hit the road. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

You have no doubt heard Bro. Hyles tell about why he came to Hammond and it may be true, but there is another reason he came to Hammond. That reason was to be with his new friend John R. Rice.

It was John Rice that talked him into coming to Hammond.

Bro. Rice had his headquarters in Wheaton where we would load up on tracts and books for distribution in the work. Wheaton is only about an hour from Hammond. Bro. Rice had decided to launch Bro. Hyles into a nation wide ministry, through preaching at Sword Conferences and working as an editor at the Sword in Wheaton, because of the perceived liberalism of his first national protege Billy Graham.

Billy Graham and Bro. Rice both came to Wheaton in 1940, Billy Graham as a young student at Wheaton College and Bro. Rice as the Editor of the Famous Sword of the Lord.

Both shared a love for soul-winning and evangelism. Bro. Rice was Billy Graham's mentor and promoter onto the national stage by publishing his sermons in the Sword as well as having him speak at National Sword of the Lord conferences. All was well until the early 50s when Billy Graham began to have massive national crusades where millions attended and 10s of thousands were saved. By about 1957 the division over separation was open to all and they went their separate ways. This was where Bro. Rice begin to launch Bro. Hyles onto the national stage the same way he launched Billy Graham.

Thus protege number two and number last was launched into the world of national fundamentalism.

This was a round about way to explain why I am still at FBCH and have never left. Over these many years many mistakes were made. Mean vitriolic language was used by hard preaching fundamentalists and we are just now realizing the heavy price we are paying for not following the LORD in loving one another.

Why would anyone want to be a Christian in light of the way hyper-fundamentalists treat fellow Christians?

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What happened to obeying Jesus rather than man?

It goes without saying, my family has continued to grow over the years, they all attend FBCH, so that also would tend to make me stay put.

This is how I see it, it's my humble opinion.


An interesting theory, and one that could be believable.

Question, what evidence do you have to validate this story? private conversations, letters, public statements, etc?

I have recently finished the excellent book edited by Ray Young of Bro. Hyles letters. The reason I found it so good is that it gave a new insight to young Jack Hyles the pastor. I found that as a young pastor he faced the same problems pastoring that I do, he made many of the same mistakes a lot of us do, and yet God used him in a great way.

The correspondence seems to indicate that it was Lee Johnson's regular letters that kept the door open to FBC Hammond for Bro. Hyles. If letters from Dr. Rice to Dr. Hyles exist Ray Young would have them and boy would they be interesting reading. If you are interested in Jack Hyles life Ray Young is sitting on a treasure trove.

Being close to Dr. Rice might have been in the back of his mind but I don't think it was the main reason. Several years later he refused to leave Hammond and go to Tennessee.

Would like to hear your reasons to support the theory, and btw I like hearing your stories, they give a different perspective.

My observations on Billy Graham - Jack Hyles support came from my sitting quietly in Bro. Rice's office in Wheaton listening to Bro. Rice and my dad discuss Billy Graham and the sadness at the direction his ministry was going, Using possibly unsaved people at the meetings.

I was giving my opinion on the matter. I should say that my opinion was colored by the many sermons and articles in the Sword by both men.

When traveling a thousand miles in the 50s a young person does not have much to do besides read, (there was no interstate highway system, just very narrow 2 lane roads) and read I did. I read every Sword that we got, and that number was massive. We carried several years of back issues to give out.

My support is personal conversations to which I was privy and numerous articles in the Sword from the 50s, as well as Sword conferences we attended where Bro. Rice had Bro. Hyles as a speaker. He stopped having Billy Graham as a guest speaker in the early 50s.

In listening to Dr. Rice, did you hear of any promise Rice made to Hyles, i.e. come here and I'll promote you more in the Sword? I'll have you preach more, etc or is that just what you came away with from the conversation?

No. What I do remember is the methods used to promote Billy Graham.

Bro. Rice would run adds promoting Billy Graham's meetings.

He would write glowing accounts of the large attendances and the great number of souls saved.

He would run Billy Graham's sermon's.

He would have Billy Graham preach with him at Sword conferences.

I wish I had those old Swords, 40s and 50s, alas I do not.

Then in the late 50s that support switched to Bro. Hyles. All the things he did for Billy Graham were now being done for Bro. Hyles.

The Sword was at this time the most influential Fundamentalist Christian publication in the US.

He used the Sword to launch Bro. Hyles while at the same time expressing remorse over the direction Billy Graham has gone.

 

[RAIDER]

No. What I do remember is the methods used to promote Billy Graham.

Bro. Rice would run adds promoting Billy Graham's meetings.

He would write glowing accounts of the large attendances and the great number of souls saved.

He would run Billy Graham's sermon's.

He would have Billy Graham preach with him at Sword conferences.

I wish I had those old Swords, 40s and 50s, alas I do not.

Then in the late 50s that support switched to Bro. Hyles. All the things he did for Billy Graham were now being done for Bro. Hyles.

The Sword was at this time the most influential Fundamentalist Christian publication in the US.

He used the Sword to launch Bro. Hyles while at the same time expressing remorse over the direction Billy Graham has gone.

I have also heard the same.  Jack Hyles was also pastoring one of the fastest growing churches at the time, was he not?

 

[Bruh]

You have no doubt heard Bro. Hyles tell about why he came to Hammond and it may be true, but there is another reason he came to Hammond. That reason was to be with his new friend John R. Rice.

It was John Rice that talked him into coming to Hammond.

Bro. Rice had his headquarters in Wheaton where we would load up on tracts and books for distribution in the work. Wheaton is only about an hour from Hammond. Bro. Rice had decided to launch Bro. Hyles into a nation wide ministry, through preaching at Sword Conferences and working as an editor at the Sword in Wheaton, because of the perceived liberalism of his first national protege Billy Graham.

Billy Graham and Bro. Rice both came to Wheaton in 1940, Billy Graham as a young student at Wheaton College and Bro. Rice as the Editor of the Famous Sword of the Lord.

Both shared a love for soul-winning and evangelism. Bro. Rice was Billy Graham's mentor and promoter onto the national stage by publishing his sermons in the Sword as well as having him speak at National Sword of the Lord conferences. All was well until the early 50s when Billy Graham began to have massive national crusades where millions attended and 10s of thousands were saved. By about 1957 the division over separation was open to all and they went their separate ways. This was where Bro. Rice begin to launch Bro. Hyles onto the national stage the same way he launched Billy Graham.

Thus protege number two and number last was launched into the world of national fundamentalism.

This was a round about way to explain why I am still at FBCH and have never left. Over these many years many mistakes were made. Mean vitriolic language was used by hard preaching fundamentalists and we are just now realizing the heavy price we are paying for not following the LORD in loving one another.

Why would anyone want to be a Christian in light of the way hyper-fundamentalists treat fellow Christians?

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What happened to obeying Jesus rather than man?

It goes without saying, my family has continued to grow over the years, they all attend FBCH, so that also would tend to make me stay put.

This is how I see it, it's my humble opinion.

An interesting theory, and one that could be believable.

Question, what evidence do you have to validate this story? private conversations, letters, public statements, etc?

I have recently finished the excellent book edited by Ray Young of Bro. Hyles letters. The reason I found it so good is that it gave a new insight to young Jack Hyles the pastor. I found that as a young pastor he faced the same problems pastoring that I do, he made many of the same mistakes a lot of us do, and yet God used him in a great way.

The correspondence seems to indicate that it was Lee Johnson's regular letters that kept the door open to FBC Hammond for Bro. Hyles. If letters from Dr. Rice to Dr. Hyles exist Ray Young would have them and boy would they be interesting reading. If you are interested in Jack Hyles life Ray Young is sitting on a treasure trove.

Being close to Dr. Rice might have been in the back of his mind but I don't think it was the main reason. Several years later he refused to leave Hammond and go to Tennessee.

Would like to hear your reasons to support the theory, and btw I like hearing your stories, they give a different perspective.
[/quote]

Your are such a Hacker!  LOL!

 

[bgwilkinson]

No. What I do remember is the methods used to promote Billy Graham.

Bro. Rice would run adds promoting Billy Graham's meetings.

He would write glowing accounts of the large attendances and the great number of souls saved.

He would run Billy Graham's sermon's.

He would have Billy Graham preach with him at Sword conferences.

I wish I had those old Swords, 40s and 50s, alas I do not.

Then in the late 50s that support switched to Bro. Hyles. All the things he did for Billy Graham were now being done for Bro. Hyles.

The Sword was at this time the most influential Fundamentalist Christian publication in the US.

He used the Sword to launch Bro. Hyles while at the same time expressing remorse over the direction Billy Graham has gone.

I have also heard the same.  Jack Hyles was also pastoring one of the fastest growing churches at the time, was he not?

Yes that was one of the promotions  of Miller Road.

It was a beehive of activity back then.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I kind of remember hearing Jack Hyles tell how he decided to come to Hammond. My memory is a little fuzzy but, the story told from the pulpit involved JH falling  asleep while driving and almost rear ending a vehicle. That vehicle was a Hammond organ truck or something like that. He had been fighting God's will and was then "encouraged" by God to come to Hammond by the near miss. Maybe someone remembers is better than I do.

Yes this is the well known story where the sign on the back of the truck said "Hammond Wants You" or "Hammond Welcomes You".

I have heard several versions of this story, it has changed quite a bit over the years.

Was it true?

It was a good story to tell while preaching. I always enjoyed hearing it wondering what he might say.

We always loved his stories.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I can't speak for BG,... But here is my take on it, respectfully of course

I don't see his posts as bitter. Yes he disagrees now but it seems like it must have been a slow awakening over time. Yes a Red Flag goes up, but then you talk yourself out of it and then one day you realize there were several Red Flags along the way. Even in college we were subjected to a "us against the world" mentality, and in honesty that does tend to make you give the institution the benefit of the doubt. Then years later it all adds up in retrospect. The recent Schaap thing made a lot of people look back and see things differently.

But even we HACkers disagree with things that went on at the college,... Does that make us bitter.

Several have asked how I could stay in a church for decades when great wickedness was ongoing.

There are several parts to this answer.

First I was very biased in favor of Bro. Hyles, and therefore tended to overlook many things that should have raised red flags. I did not realize that more might be in play than was apparent on the surface.



It was not until the 90s that several things hit all at the same time. It was during Pastors' school, I think 92.

In any case it was the one on the Book the Body and the Blood. The order may have been otherwise.

During the Book evening Bro. Hyles was yelling and shouting against Satan's bibles. He was holding one of Satan's bibles, might have been the NIV, not sure.

He started tearing out the pages, the crowd let loose a gasp as in unison. He appear shocked, almost bewildered at the reaction.

He quickly said, "don't worry it's only a song book". As he peeled off the fake NIV cover that was hiding the fact it was only a song book.

At that point I realized that he knew he had gone too far.

I believe he was blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I think he was afraid he might have done it too.

I am not trying to get into a KJVO debate as that is for another section of FFF.

I am pointing this out because I believe he had crossed the line of advocacy for the KJV and into the area of attacking God's Word.



On the Night of that PS titled the Blood we had the mock-up of the Holy of Holies on the stage.

I had helped during the setup and practice for that evening.

Bro. Schaap was playing the part of the High Priest. He was going to sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat.

We had a pyrotechnic in the dark red thick liquid that was quit believable as blood. He was to sprinkle it upon the mercy seat whereupon it exploded with a blinding flash of light. It was a fantastic effect visually.

So the time came during the service for Schaap to sprinkle the blood. He gingerly dropped a couple of small drops, nothing happened, no blinding flash, nothing.

He tried again with some bigger drops, again nothing, not even a little flash.

Those of us that knew what was to happen could not believe it.

The effect had worked perfectly in practice. We had done it several times, every time we had the blinding flash as the pyrotechnic exploded.

Bro. Schaap in desperation threw down hard on the mercy seat a big glob of it trying to get the explosion.

If you were there you know there was no flash, no explosion, just nothing. A complete failure.

It was at that point I sensed that the LORD was very displeased with what we were doing.

It was an overwhelming conviction of sin and wrongdoing of the very most serious kind, more grave than anything I had ever in my life experience before or after, I believe blasphemy again.



It was just a few days after this that Bro. Hyles gave me a book called, "New Age Bible Versions".

I started to investigate the women and her books and found they lead back to SDAs and Ellen G. White.

Bro. Hyles went full KJVO changing what he believed about the Bible. He left the historical Baptist position on the Bible as represented in the London Baptist Confession 1689.

When he wrote let's study Revelation he corrected the bad translations several times as other Bible teachers had done previously.

He became a Neo-Fundamentalist or a Hyper-Fundamentalist.



It was a slow step by step process, I began to realize that Bro. Hyles had changed his beliefs, he was not the pastor that I knew when I first meet him.

My journey had just begun and I am still on it today.

He had become obsessed with bigness and trying to regain his slowly fading persona.

Trying to recover FBCH from the slide that started in the 80s.

He could not stop it, he could not slow it.

So, yes I have had to reevaluate everything about Bro. Hyles, and I'm not done yet.

 

[prophet]

BG, I understand what you have said and I am in no way trying to be antagonistic, but for the life of me I cannot understand why you would have stayed in an organization that you had such profound distrust & difference of opinion in (in many ways).  You are severely critical of all things FBC, JH and HAC.  If JH, FBC Hammond and HAC so violated scriptural principles as they have been accused of (and you have obviously seen much of this first hand), why would you not leave?  I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts but when He does, He validates Scripture and the principles from the Word of God. 
During this time, when the Holy Spirit was convicting you about all of these issues, wasn't that the leadership of God saying: This is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, get out, get out!
What other leadership do you need?
But you just stayed on and let it make you more and more bitter.
And I do see a lot of bitterness in your life, but I am not sympathetic to your pleas and it's hard for me to give you much credence for the reasons that I have stated above.
Again, I'm not trying to be unkind, but you constantly saw the ditch and still stayed on the trail heading towards it.

I have a man in my church that is the longest standing member of our church. He's probably been here about 40 years. He reminds me a lot of BG. He is constantly negative, constantly critical, constantly attacking, etc. The previous pastor before served for 23 years and told me this guy was his single biggest problem. I've served here for 11 years and I have to sadly say the same thing. But he-just-won't-leave... And I think the reason is pride. As I understand the book of Proverbs this man in my church is a scorner, and scorners are motivated by pride. I think this guy who-just-won't-leave won't leave because he is proud of how long he has been here, proud that he has been here longer than anybody, and proud that everybody knows it, and proud that he has stuck it out even though he thinks everything has always been done wrong. He is too proud to leave.

I am NOT saying BG is the same as this guy. I don't have near the sample size/in depth knowledge of BG's life. But that is how/why/what has happened here so I can see how a guy like BG can be so negative for so long and yet stay for decades.

I have said from the pulpit many times:  If you can't be happy at this church, find somewhere where you can be happy or, pray that God changes what is making you unhappy, or pray that God will change you so you won't be unhappy.  Both parties will be better off for it.

I guess I understand what both 1611 and Tom are saying to an extent.  Tom the man in your church if it is not the majority, yes he should leave.

But 1611 or Tom, what I don't understand is why is it always the people should leave? or It's always the peoples fault.  I completely understand that some people are just idiots or very disgruntled for not reason but that is not always the case.

As I said, why is it always the peoples fault?  I'm not bitter or angry but that's just my take...

For instances, Revelations 2 is written to Pastors but I have ONLY heard it preached to congregations to repent not pastors.  If I understand Revelations 2 correctly the church will cease to be a church because of the pastor not the people it is a rebuke for the pastors not the people.  Again, why is it always the peoples fault? 

Hope I have made since.  Thanks! 

Rev. 2 isn't "written to pastors".

If you hadn't bought into the false practice of "one annointed under-shepherd per church", you would think that the statement you just made was ludicrous.

The whole church, including its elders, is being addressed. 
"the angel" never once in Scripture refers to an actual human.
Since there is no verse that says anything remotely close to "pick out one elder, from among you, and annoint him the head elder" or "I've called an undershepherd for each flock", than there is not one single reason to think that somehow by Rev. 2, all of the churches had been assigned one "called man of god" each, and he is the only person that is given "the message" for each "service".

Don't just repeat the same old lines, prove what you say, from the Scripture.

I know the older men will never get it, they sold their birthright long ago, but our generation has to study, to see why we were given such a mess, to not repeat the errors.

By instinct, you realize that "the people aren't nec. the problem, so you asked a good question, but negated the right answer by perpetuating a false premise.

The answer is there, hidden by lies.

 

[RAIDER]

It was not until the 90s that several things hit all at the same time. It was during Pastors' school, I think 92.

At that point I realized that he knew he had gone too far.

I believe he was blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I think he was afraid he might have done it too.

It was at that point I sensed that the LORD was very displeased with what we were doing.

It was an overwhelming conviction of sin and wrongdoing of the very most serious kind, more grave than anything I had ever in my life experience before or after, I believe blasphemy again.

Bro. Hyles went full KJVO changing what he believed about the Bible. He left the historical Baptist position on the Bible as represented in the London Baptist Confession 1689.
He became a Neo-Fundamentalist or a Hyper-Fundamentalist.

It was a slow step by step process, I began to realize that Bro. Hyles had changed his beliefs, he was not the pastor that I knew when I first meet him.

So in 1992 you knew your preacher had gone too far.  You knew he had blasphemed the Holy Spirit.  You knew the Lord was displeased with what you were doing.  You had an overwhelming conviction of sin like you have never had before.  Your preacher left the historical Baptist position.  Your pastor became a Neo- Fundamentalist or a Hyper-Fundamentalist.

These are all very serious issues.  Surely you resigned your position as deacon.  Surely you left to find a church with a pastor the was not guilty of these great sins.  BK, I'm still confused about you. 

 

[cast.sheep]

It was not until the 90s that several things hit all at the same time. It was during Pastors' school, I think 92.

At that point I realized that he knew he had gone too far.

I believe he was blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I think he was afraid he might have done it too.

It was at that point I sensed that the LORD was very displeased with what we were doing.

It was an overwhelming conviction of sin and wrongdoing of the very most serious kind, more grave than anything I had ever in my life experience before or after, I believe blasphemy again.

Bro. Hyles went full KJVO changing what he believed about the Bible. He left the historical Baptist position on the Bible as represented in the London Baptist Confession 1689.
He became a Neo-Fundamentalist or a Hyper-Fundamentalist.

It was a slow step by step process, I began to realize that Bro. Hyles had changed his beliefs, he was not the pastor that I knew when I first meet him.

So in 1992 you knew your preacher had gone too far.  You knew he had blasphemed the Holy Spirit.  You knew the Lord was displeased with what you were doing.  You had an overwhelming conviction of sin like you have never had before.  Your preacher left the historical Baptist position.  Your pastor became a Neo- Fundamentalist or a Hyper-Fundamentalist.

These are all very serious issues.  Surely you resigned your position as deacon.  Surely you left to find a church with a pastor the was not guilty of these great sins.  BK, I'm still confused about you.

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there. 

 

[RAIDER]

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

 

[16KJV11]

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

yes

 

[Smellin Coffee]

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

I don't know BG and cannot answer for him. I do know of others who stayed to keep harmony within their own family. To them, losing family relationships for the sake of leaving wasn't a risk they were willing to take.

 

[Norefund]

I also have friends and family that didn't leave for that very reason.

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

I don't know BG and cannot answer for him. I do know of others who stayed to keep harmony within their own family. To them, losing family relationships for the sake of leaving wasn't a risk they were willing to take.

 

[RAIDER]

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

I don't know BG and cannot answer for him. I do know of others who stayed to keep harmony within their own family. To them, losing family relationships for the sake of leaving wasn't a risk they were willing to take.

While I do know where you are coming from, people have to make a choice to do right regardless of family.  To sit under the preaching of a pastor that you basically feel is a heretic and a blasphemer for the sake of family is crazy.

 

[Bravo]

And people wonder why that place is referred to as a "cult".  You are fortunate that you left after 4 years.  This stuff just doesn't make sense, does it.  But, sadly....I get it.  The one thing I don't get is why BG is still there.

BG has had many an issue for many a year yet remained.  Why gripe, whine, and complain about it when you are still in it.

Let's be a little more fair please. He is asked questions about his time there or his take on issues that have happened. Answering a question, that several others have asked, cannot be called griping, it's called answering a question.

The recent post was a lot stronger today, but I will still give him a benefit of the doubt at this time

 

[Bravo]

I have said from the pulpit many times:  If you can't be happy at this church, find somewhere where you can be happy or, pray that God changes what is making you unhappy, or pray that God will change you so you won't be unhappy.  Both parties will be better off for it.

That's very good. I've got to remember it... Thanks.

For sure this is a very pragmatic approach,...  Where does this philosophy end though? Do we then carry this philosophy to its conclusion and counsel people who are married with this same philosophy?

Still not answered?