How much do HAC/FBCH staff members really make?

What about family's like the Moffit's, Lapina's, McKinney's, Hookers high profile staff.  What did their salaries look like?
 
My opinion about pastors pay:

Full time pastors should be paid the average wage of their membership.  If you preach in a poor community to low income people, do not expect them to sacrifice so you can live better than them.  Conversely, if the church is comprised of middle class/upper middle class families, the pastor should be compensated at a similar level to his membership.  Church members shouldn't be enjoying the lifestyle that hard work has brought them while the pastor scrapes by on entry level wages.

I would follow this same pattern with staff members, with their salaries being 20 - 25% less than the pastors.

I myself and happily bi-vocational, gladly serving my people and requiring nothing in return.  From the moment that I first began filling in during their time without a pastor, until the day they asked me to serve as their preacher, we never talked money.  The deacons never made me an offer.  The church voted and I accepted.  In truth, they are very good to me and pay me much more than I deserve for the time I am required to sacrifice.  I have turned down multiple raises, until this year when they started writing me a bigger check without ever getting my approval.  I hate taking the checks....but I love cashing them !!!!

Being bi-vocational allows me to earn as much as God allows me without relying on the people I am called to serve to meet my needs.  Of course, if God ever calls me to be full time (when the church starts running 200?), I will answer his call.  I have often asked myself how much I would ask for then.....still don't know the answer to that.
 
I think a lot of Pastors forget what it is to rub shoulders with the world every day. 
 
Bruh said:
I think a lot of Pastors forget what it is to rub shoulders with the world every day.
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Just like members of Congress and the Executive branch.
 
From my memory of growing at at Hammond, it seemed like a mix bag in terms of salary, housing, and car benefits. I recall Mark Rasmussen worked as a cook part-time at Traveler's restaurant on 41 along with teaching at HAC. That had to get old fast. Another staff member at Hammond (who later taught at HAC) had a house in the Pine Island area. My guess is the church helped with the rent or purchase of the house.

 
I wish there was a "LIKE" button on the Forum. 

Pastors and teachers at HAC were treated very different "back in the early days".  You were expected to give more than your 100%.  There was no time for a family - especially his family, teaching, preparing for his classes, soul-winning on Saturday, Sunday, and other things not in his usual schedule.  There was no time for a second job, let alone time for his family and his family suffered greatly.  Again, if it wasn't for my parents, they would have starved. 

 
HereIStand said:
From my memory of growing at at Hammond, it seemed like a mix bag in terms of salary, housing, and car benefits. I recall Mark Rasmussen worked as a cook part-time at Traveler's restaurant on 41 along with teaching at HAC. That had to get old fast. Another staff member at Hammond (who later taught at HAC) had a house in the Pine Island area. My guess is the church helped with the rent or purchase of the house.
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When we first moved my family lived in the Pine Island apartments. 

I wonder what they look like now?  Probably the hood.  LOL!!
 
Binaca Chugger said:
Staff were paid almost enough to make all their bills, if they were very diligent to watch sales, and didn't mind eating Ramen Noodles often.  When an event occurred in life (car breaking down, etc), they would need to "ask for prayer" from the pastor who would decide if God had a blessing to give them or not.  Of course, the pastor or church was to be praised for graciously allowing God to use them to meet this need.  In reality, this was a method of manipulation designed and perfected by a megalomaniac.  All of these cronies want the staff to be dependent upon themselves and nothing else.

<snip>

In true Hyles fashion, if you had a life emergency, you could go to the preacher, ask for prayer, and wait to see if preacher (the god of the church) answered.
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Yep.

When my grandfather unexpectedly died, my parents (HAC staff members) had to track down Hyles that night (it coincidently happened at Schaap's wedding) to see how they could get enough funds to drive to New York for the funeral. He pulled the money out of his pocket and gave it to them and they felt indebted to him.

Looking back, I think it was probably an exercise in manipulation.
 
I remember jh preaching and hollering about staff and faculty members not spending enough time in ministries. He would say, "I'd be ashamed of myself if I had hac students who were bringing more people down the aisle than you. I'd be ashamed if I had more people saved when I was a student than as an adult". Sounded good at first and through the years I came to realize that most staff and faculty were working extra jobs.
 
Still There said:
I wish there was a "LIKE" button on the Forum. 
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There is.  It is called "Standing Ovations?" simply click the green thumb and record why you liked it.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
I grew up at FBCH, graduated from HAC and worked nearly 20 years for Hyles cronies.

Jack Hyles purposely paid people less than a livable wage.  He proclaimed from the pulpit that church and school staff should not ever be paid so much that they are not dependent upon God.  This was one of his foundational principles for management.  He was afraid that if people got too much money, they would become content and no longer dependent upon God.  In reality, he wanted people dependent upon him.  His cronies used the same philosophy.

Staff were paid almost enough to make all their bills, if they were very diligent to watch sales, and didn't mind eating Ramen Noodles often.  When an event occurred in life (car breaking down, etc), they would need to "ask for prayer" from the pastor who would decide if God had a blessing to give them or not.  Of course, the pastor or church was to be praised for graciously allowing God to use them to meet this need.  In reality, this was a method of manipulation designed and perfected by a megalomaniac.  All of these cronies want the staff to be dependent upon themselves and nothing else.

I have worked for these megalomaniac MOGs.  At one location, I dared to ask what my pay would be.  I was simply told "If God wants you here, you will have enough money to make it."  I took the job.  I wanted what God wanted.  I worked for nearly a decade at a place where I remained in below poverty wages, even though I was responsible for a family.  When asked about increase to a livable wage, I was told to get on medicaid, welfare and food stamps.  Meanwhile, the pastor owned a different vehicle for each day of the week - after all, he was the MOG.  Once, when asking for a raise, I was told "If you bring in enough tithing people, we can give you a raise."  The result of my effort?  I was told to stop visiting because people were starting to become loyal to me instead of the preeeeeeeeacher.  When I tried getting a second job, I was told I had to choose between God or self, working for the church or x company.  I needed to be available at any time as a full time staff member.  In true Hyles fashion, if you had a life emergency, you could go to the preacher, ask for prayer, and wait to see if preacher (the god of the church) answered.

I understand missions.  I understand giving your all for God.  While working for a church that was going through a split, my family and I went 4 months without any guaranteed income.  It was a choice we made and God provided.  However, when there is plenty of money and the pastor is more than wealthy.........

To all the pastors:  PAY YOUR STAFF!
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So true... so sad

Having "staff" isn't necessary to a church; a new testament church is the people, together with the pastor(s) and deacon(s).

If you're going to have a staff, pay them decently.

And learn to delegate.  If you have a man on staff over the music ministry, don't insist that you have to approve every song sung.  Trust him.  If he makes a mistake, correct him, and go on.

Don't just hire yes-men.  Hire men that can get the job done.
 
This is so sad.  It's also shameful that JH's employees didn't have enough of a surplus for an unexpected and emergency trip.  It's not that money was squandered by the employees, they were given appropriate money for their teaching positions.  (The literature teacher at HAC in the 70's and 80's was the most knowledgable teacher on faculty at HAC during her time there.  She could've gone anywhere and been hired for a tremendous amount of money, with the knowledge that she possesses on Amer and Eng lit.)
 
tobytyler said:
When my grandfather unexpectedly died, my parents (HAC staff members) had to track down Hyles that night (it coincidently happened at Schaap's wedding) to see how they could get enough funds to drive to New York for the funeral. He pulled the money out of his pocket and gave it to them and they felt indebted to him.

Looking back, I think it was probably an exercise in manipulation.
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This is so sad.  It's also shameful that JH's employees didn't have enough of a surplus for an unexpected and emergency trip.  It's not that money was squandered by the employees, they were given appropriate money for their teaching positions.  (The literature teacher at HAC in the 70's and 80's was the most knowledgable teacher on faculty at HAC during her time there.  She could've gone anywhere and been hired for a tremendous amount of money, with the knowledge that she possesses on Amer and Eng lit.)
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Most of the staff, especially from the early era, were qualified people with backgrounds and ability to get a better paying job elsewhere.  They really believed in what they were doing and were not concerned about their temporal standings.  I was of the same mindset. 

At some point though, you realize that you have been taken advantage of by the MOG.  It was never that the institution didn't have the money to pay, it was that the leadership did not want you to be free from your dependence upon him.  The MOG lives a lifestyle of luxury and ease with regular trips to vacation homes while the staff are excited if they have $35.00 at the end of the month to go out with their spouse.  Pride, Pride, Pride of the MOG.  The MOG is able to buy cars and even homes for his kids, the staff is asking church members for rides because they don't have enough money to repair their "Dave Ramsey" car.  While the MOG shops the latest trends to look like a "classy" preacher should for himself and his family, the staff are waiting for Discount Days at the local second hand store in hopes they can get enough outfits to last through the next season.  No exaggerations.  This is the real deal for staff at FBCH model churches all around the country.
 
Remember though, the pastor's staff got their free housing, gas & electric, cars, phones, etc.  They weren't out a penny and too, they got money from speaking engagements and it was their own money.  I didn't feel for them.  I believe Wilkerson has cut all the freebies out!
 
It amazes me how we have made FBCH/HAC the big bully when it comes to pay.  Do we not all have a free will?  Are we robots?  Are we morons that can't make our own decision?

If I have a choice of 3 jobs.  One of them pays $15 per hour.  One pays $10 per hour.  One pays $7 per hour.  If I CHOOSE to go to work at the $7 per hour job it is my CHOICE.  Maybe I like the location of the $7 job.  Maybe I like the people I work with at the $7 job.  Maybe I get a prestigious title at the $7 job. Maybe I like my boss at the $7 job.  Bottom line..............it is my CHOICE.  I can cry and whine all I want.  There are two better paying jobs waiting for me.

Ok, FBCH/HAC paid terrible wages.  Their employees had to take second jobs to make ends meet.  They ate peanut butter sandwiches five time per week.  Does it stink?  Absolutely!!  Does it aggravate me?  Absolutely!

Bottom line.............the people that CHOSE to be employed there CHOSE to be employed there.  Maybe they liked the location of the job.  Maybe they like the people with whom they worked.  Maybe they received a prestigious title.  Maybe they liked their boss. 

They were not made to stay there.  When they received their first pay check they knew how much they were being paid.  I'm sorry, but my sympathy level is low for people who were dissatisfied with the pay yet stayed around year after year. 
 
Still There said:
Remember though, the pastor's staff got their free housing, gas & electric, cars, phones, etc.  They weren't out a penny and too, they got money from speaking engagements and it was their own money.  I didn't feel for them.  I believe Wilkerson has cut all the freebies out!
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Some staff were definitely cared for better than others.  Politics.  If you were on the inside, you got paid much more.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
At some point though, you realize that you have been taken advantage of by the MOG.  It was never that the institution didn't have the money to pay, it was that the leadership did not want you to be free from your dependence upon him.  The MOG lives a lifestyle of luxury and ease with regular trips to vacation homes while the staff are excited if they have $35.00 at the end of the month to go out with their spouse.  Pride, Pride, Pride of the MOG.  The MOG is able to buy cars and even homes for his kids, the staff is asking church members for rides because they don't have enough money to repair their "Dave Ramsey" car.  While the MOG shops the latest trends to look like a "classy" preacher should for himself and his family, the staff are waiting for Discount Days at the local second hand store in hopes they can get enough outfits to last through the next season.  No exaggerations.  This is the real deal for staff at FBCH model churches all around the country.
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BTW, this is not just a crime of the pastor. It is a crime of the church as well. It is wrong on so many levels in so many ways for so many reasons. The ramifications are strained marriages, broken health, bitter children, and stingy churches. I cannot emphasize enough how wrong this is. I didn't live in the same system as a PK but I did have the same reality. And it was awful.
 
RAIDER said:
It amazes me how we have made FBCH/HAC the big bully when it comes to pay........ my sympathy level is low for people who were dissatisfied with the pay yet stayed around year after year.
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I guess you have no problem with infidels.

1 Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I guess you have no problem with sore evil.

Ecc 5:13 - There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.

I guess you have no problem with the root of all evil.

1 Tim 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

At least we know where you stand.
 
Binaca Chugger said:
RAIDER said:
It amazes me how we have made FBCH/HAC the big bully when it comes to pay........ my sympathy level is low for people who were dissatisfied with the pay yet stayed around year after year.
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I guess you have no problem with infidels.

1 Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I guess you have no problem with sore evil.

Ecc 5:13 - There is a sore evil which I have seen under the sun, namely, riches kept for the owners thereof to their hurt.

I guess you have no problem with the root of all evil.

1 Tim 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

At least we know where you stand.
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If you read my entire post instead of just the parts that you choose you will see that I do have issues with it.  I can hear you now, "Push your keyboard out of the way.  Don't look at the complete post. Listen to me".  :)

The issues I have is with the people who felt they were being "robbed" staying around and continuing to to "robbed".  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!
 
Sigh! Only the people who lived it can truly understand.
 
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