Deceit

Not having a dog in this fight, I find VM to be truthful about his experiences at HAC.
I don't know VM anymore then I know JV.
 
Sherryh said:
Did I miss something because Vince has been a gentleman  how is he a vineyard follower
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Pay closer attention.
 
I will pay attention more Lol
 
Sherry, while I admit that I am not a liar, I run a route that brought in 31 riders last Sunday. I have to confess that I am a product of Jim Vineyard.

But it was Billy Graham who led me to Christ and taught me more Bible in his follow-up course than I learned in five years at HAC. And I learned more Bible from reading John R. Rice than I learned at HAC.  And Jack Hyles taught me to cut the word quit out of my life. And Joe Combs taught me the value of wisdom. And Bill Gothard taught me how grace gives you the desire and ability to do God's work.

Note to my friend JustMe. Not everything that Jim Vineyard said or did was evil.
 
Vince Massi said:
Sherry, while I admit that I am not a liar, I run a route that brought in 31 riders last Sunday. I have to confess that I am a product of Jim Vineyard.

But it was Billy Graham who led me to Christ and taught me more Bible in his follow-up course than I learned in five years at HAC. And I learned more Bible from reading John R. Rice than I learned at HAC.  And Jack Hyles taught me to cut the word quit out of my life. And Joe Combs taught me the value of wisdom. And Bill Gothard taught me how grace gives you the desire and ability to do God's work.

Note to my friend JustMe. Not everything that Jim Vineyard said or did was evil.
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Vince, I am not your enemy nor do I wish to be.  I am thankfull for all who serve our Lord.  I am also glad you have learned the things you did from the men you mention. 

As for Jim Vineyard and not all evil, that is true to a point.  But the evil he has done is so overbearing and harmfull the cause of Christ that it is hard to see the good.  Schaap is the same way as are many other.  But none of us are perfect for sure.

 
Well stated from both of you...bro vineyard hurt a lot of people with his brass language. I'm glad we can discuss things and still have respect for each other. I'm not  a fighter.
 
Vince Massi said:
Just me said:
Vince, why would you then, after that, have gone to work for Vineyard at OBC?
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Believe it or not, Just Me, I got reconciled to Jim. God clearly told me that Jim was going to ask me to work for him, and he did. And hang onto your seatbelts, Folks. I quit on Vineyard on good terms, and he gave me a recommendation.
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I am confused. I probably know you if you worked for JV at OBC but I don't understand. If you knew that he allowed people to physically, emotionally, and probably spiritually harm others what in the world did he tell you that would make you go ok i forgive you and go work for him?

I worked for him to at the church and at his house. I grew up listening to alot of the things he said and did. As a "kid" the thought was this is pastor he can't do no wrong. But after growing up and beginning to look at things from a bible view, grown up view it was obvious there was alot that was just wrong and inappropriate. I learned alot about hard work, never to give up, and other attributes there but if asked I would never go back permanently for any reason. I go back time to time to visit my family but that is it.

With all that said why would you go and work for a man that you know was personally responsible for hurting people?

On a side note would love to talk to you more in private about when you are at OBC.
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Vince Massi said:
By letting the gang members off and blaming the victim, Jim unleashed several months of gang violence onto the students who worked at UPS. Now, Folks, I'm giving my real name. and stating where I was when I observed these events. We have two eyewitnesses on this thread that the gang violence never occurred. Would those two eyewitnesses give their real names, where they worked at UPS when they observed that these events did not occur, what their relationship was with Jim Vineyard, and what awards they received that had been earned by other students?

Chris Bonesteel, who was on staff for several years at HAC, has written into the Do Right forums that the Roadway Gang incidents did occur. Dan Taylor and Cliff Falen, who both had large bus routes, have written in to other FFF forums that the Vineyard's Gangsters had occurred. All of these eyewtriness have given their real names and have stated where they were when they observed these events.
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Well, then, if Dan said it, it must be .........
 
The year after Vineyard's Gangsters were expelled, HAC realized that they were gong to have to do a better cover-up. Max Helton made the first try, and I was present when we laughed him down in chapel. Dr. Evans did better. He got us to promise not to tell anyone the names of the gang members, so that their ministries would not be destroyed.

All of us, including me, made the promise. I didn't trealize what I was doing. I was promising to help them deceive churches in the future. I was helping them to disobey the Biblical commands to go back and make things right with their victims. And I wasn´t informed that the slanders that Jim Vineyard had attached to the records of students who opposed gang violence would remain on the records.

Deceit was and is a major policy of HAC.
 
I keep looking around for black helicopters. 

They're around.  Somewhere. 
 
patriotic said:
I keep looking around for black helicopters. 

They're around.  Somewhere.
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Spies aren't found in helicopters, silly. Spies are found in trenchcoats!
 
Vince Massi said:
The year after Vineyard's Gangsters were expelled, HAC realized that they were gong to have to do a better cover-up. Max Helton made the first try, and I was present when we laughed him down in chapel. Dr. Evans did better. He got us to promise not to tell anyone the names of the gang members, so that their ministries would not be destroyed.

All of us, including me, made the promise. I didn't trealize what I was doing. I was promising to help them deceive churches in the future. I was helping them to disobey the Biblical commands to go back and make things right with their victims. And I wasn´t informed that the slanders that Jim Vineyard had attached to the records of students who opposed gang violence would remain on the records.

Deceit was and is a major policy of HAC.
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I dont understand, in a post not too long ago you were saying that Dr Evans was one of the best Christians you knew. But yet, now you are saying he caused you guys to cover up evil.  Not sure why someone would glorify him then.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
patriotic said:
I keep looking around for black helicopters. 

They're around.  Somewhere.
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Spies aren't found in helicopters, silly. Spies are found in trenchcoats!
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The men flying the helicopters wear trenchcoats.....after they disembark the choppers and while they walk through female dormitories. 
 
Dr Evans had a chance to tell the truth but never did maybe some day.  Hey this could be a good book deal.... men flying helicopters in trench coats.....
 
patriotic said:
Smellin Coffee said:
patriotic said:
I keep looking around for black helicopters. 

They're around.  Somewhere.
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Spies aren't found in helicopters, silly. Spies are found in trenchcoats!
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Just had a Youth Conference flashback. Does anyone remember one year when Hyles got YC people on the football field, got in a helicopter and tossed change out the side? Or maybe it wasn't him in the copter, I don't remember. But I do recall several people complained of getting dinged in the head with quarters...

The men flying the helicopters wear trenchcoats.....after they disembark the choppers and while they walk through female dormitories.
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Men wearing trench coats flying helicopters. High flying flashers!
 
4everfsu said:
Men wearing trench coats flying helicopters. High flying flashers!
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All part of the magic trick, I suppose.
 
Vince Massi said:
The year after Vineyard's Gangsters were expelled, HAC realized that they were gong to have to do a better cover-up. Max Helton made the first try, and I was present when we laughed him down in chapel. Dr. Evans did better. He got us to promise not to tell anyone the names of the gang members, so that their ministries would not be destroyed.

All of us, including me, made the promise. I didn't trealize what I was doing. I was promising to help them deceive churches in the future. I was helping them to disobey the Biblical commands to go back and make things right with their victims. And I wasn´t informed that the slanders that Jim Vineyard had attached to the records of students who opposed gang violence would remain on the records.

Deceit was and is a major policy of HAC.
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Two questions: 

1)  Who were Vineyard's gangsters?

2)  Who were those chosen to be in the Who's Who?
 
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