Beer and Bible Study?

[rsc2a]

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!
To equate it with the other examples you used is only valid to a point.
Which goes to why the Bible is so filled with warnings about alcohol....God hardly placed it on even ground with overheating in the amount of Scripture given to it.

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

 

[brianb]

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!
To equate it with the other examples you used is only valid to a point.
Which goes to why the Bible is so filled with warnings about alcohol....God hardly placed it on even ground with overheating in the amount of Scripture given to it.

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I think more people abuse food than anything else but that's because we all eat - I would assume.
However alcohol kills/ does harm much quicker in even smaller amounts than it would take food (or even water - water intoxication) to do someone harm. There is also the mind altering aspect of alcohol which classifies it as a drug which makes it not only dangerous to the abuser but those around him.

 

[rsc2a]

I think more people abuse food than anything else but that's because we all eat - I would assume.

*nods*

However alcohol kills/ does harm much quicker in even smaller amounts than it would take food (or even water - water intoxication) to do someone harm.

This might actually make food the more dangerous item in the long run.

There is also the mind altering aspect of alcohol which classifies it as a drug which makes it not only dangerous to the abuser but those around him.

True. Which is why one should only drink alcohol responsibility. (An argument could be made that abusing foods is dangerous to others as well, but I understand that the danger from alcohol is definitely higher in the short term.)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!
To equate it with the other examples you used is only valid to a point.
Which goes to why the Bible is so filled with warnings about alcohol....God hardly placed it on even ground with overheating in the amount of Scripture given to it.

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I have never said that.
To equate overeating with alcohol abuse is akin to comparing kidney stones to terminal cancer.
Alcohol abuse is the most devastating and costly vice, bar none.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!
To equate it with the other examples you used is only valid to a point.
Which goes to why the Bible is so filled with warnings about alcohol....God hardly placed it on even ground with overheating in the amount of Scripture given to it.

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I think more people abuse food than anything else but that's because we all eat - I would assume.
However alcohol kills/ does harm much quicker in even smaller amounts than it would take food (or even water - water intoxication) to do someone harm. There is also the mind altering aspect of alcohol which classifies it as a drug which makes it not only dangerous to the abuser but those around him.

I agree.
Alcohol abuse harms you physically, emotionally, socially and spiritually.
In can also make you a danger to others.
Victims of alcohol abuse can include family, friends and even total strangers.

 

[rsc2a]

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I have never said that.
To equate overeating with alcohol abuse is akin to comparing kidney stones to terminal cancer.[/quote]

Which one affects more people?

Alcohol abuse is the most devastating and costly vice, bar none.

Not even close.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I have never said that.
To equate overeating with alcohol abuse is akin to comparing kidney stones to terminal cancer.

Which one affects more people?

Alcohol abuse is the most devastating and costly vice, bar none.

Not even close.
[/quote]

As I posted earlier, alcohol abuse affects the abuser, his family, his friends and even total strangers...of course in a negative way.

Alcohol abuse is THE costliest and devastating 'vice' .....vice being acceptable behavior.

 

[Izdaari]

However, no one here is advocating abuse of alcohol.

 

[rsc2a]

As I posted earlier, alcohol abuse affects the abuser, his family, his friends and even total strangers...of course in a negative way.

Alcohol abuse is THE costliest and devastating 'vice' .....vice being acceptable behavior.

You don't think overeating is acceptable behavior? When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against "the evils of alcohol"? For me, it was yesterday.

When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against the evils of overeating? I've never heard that sermon.



34% of the US adult population is obese. 34% of the US adult population is considered overweight, but not obese.
Approximately 7% of the US adult population would clinically qualify as alcoholics. 15% regularly abuse alcohol.



Alcohol abuse kills approximately 75k Americans a year if you include diseases and accidents.
Obesity (not overweighted-ness) accounts for nearly 130k American deaths a year. (Some estimates are as high as 300k.)



Obesity costs an estimated $150+ billion per year in additional medical costs.
Alcohol abuse costs an estimated $26 billion per year in additional medical costs.

....would you like me to keep going?

 

[brianb]

As I posted earlier, alcohol abuse affects the abuser, his family, his friends and even total strangers...of course in a negative way.

Alcohol abuse is THE costliest and devastating 'vice' .....vice being acceptable behavior.

You don't think overeating is acceptable behavior? When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against "the evils of alcohol"? For me, it was yesterday.

When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against the evils of overeating? I've never heard that sermon.



34% of the US adult population is obese. 34% of the US adult population is considered overweight, but not obese.
Approximately 7% of the US adult population would clinically qualify as alcoholics. 15% regularly abuse alcohol.



Alcohol abuse kills approximately 75k Americans a year if you include diseases and accidents.
Obesity (not overweighted-ness) accounts for nearly 130k American deaths a year. (Some estimates are as high as 300k.)



Obesity costs an estimated $150+ billion per year in additional medical costs.
Alcohol abuse costs an estimated $26 billion per year in additional medical costs.

....would you like me to keep going?

There's more to obesity than simply overeating.
One can be an overeater (glutton) and have a high metabolism or be thin.

I do agree that obesity is more costly than alcohol abuse. I would however say that alcohol abuse is on the increase just as obesity is on the increase. The new young adult generation though it maybe small has a higher rate of alcohol abuse than previous generations. They have a different attitude towards alcohol - they don't all abuse alcohol because their parents did. Maybe one reason that there are so relatively little alcohol abusers is because some see a friend die from it (usually at a young age - 20-something or younger) and so they change their ways.  Those are just people who regularly abuse alcohol. There are also those who get drunk once in a while who if they're careless will cause someone hurt - we know there are more of those around - and some of them are professing Christians who may have never been told it was a sin or they were actually told it is ok to get drunk once in a while or even weekly. There's this idea now that it's only a sin if someone gets hurt - that is basically some people's idea of what it means to be a Christian - all about Christian liberty and it isn't just moderate drinking it's moderate drunkenness (basically ignoring what the Bible says).  It is also done in the name of getting the unchurched into church which is a joke - maybe they'd get them into church but they probably won't be converted. I realize that these are fringe churches but they are also those who are actively going after the younger generation and teaching them false ideas. Those who do teach the Bible (the whole counsel) have to seek to win this younger generation and not just the "friendly acceptable ones" but the street people as well. You will only win a few but the few that are won will be saved from those other churches which means less alcohol related problems.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!
To equate it with the other examples you used is only valid to a point.
Which goes to why the Bible is so filled with warnings about alcohol....God hardly placed it on even ground with overheating in the amount of Scripture given to it.

You really think more people abuse alcohol than abuse sex and food?

I think more people abuse food than anything else but that's because we all eat - I would assume.
However alcohol kills/ does harm much quicker in even smaller amounts than it would take food (or even water - water intoxication) to do someone harm. There is also the mind altering aspect of alcohol which classifies it as a drug which makes it not only dangerous to the abuser but those around him.

Actually, if people abuse food enough, then alcohol doesn't do much in smaller amounts.  If you're morbidly obese, you can drink lots of alcohol without even getting a buzz.  Therefore, the way to solve the problem with alcohol is for everyone to get as fat as possible.   

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

However, no one here is advocating abuse of alcohol.

And I'm not demanding abstinence or condemning the use of alcohol....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

As I posted earlier, alcohol abuse affects the abuser, his family, his friends and even total strangers...of course in a negative way.

Alcohol abuse is THE costliest and devastating 'vice' .....vice being acceptable behavior.

You don't think overeating is acceptable behavior? When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against "the evils of alcohol"? For me, it was yesterday.

When was the last time you heard a preacher preach against the evils of overeating? I've never heard that sermon.



34% of the US adult population is obese. 34% of the US adult population is considered overweight, but not obese.
Approximately 7% of the US adult population would clinically qualify as alcoholics. 15% regularly abuse alcohol.



Alcohol abuse kills approximately 75k Americans a year if you include diseases and accidents.
Obesity (not overweighted-ness) accounts for nearly 130k American deaths a year. (Some estimates are as high as 300k.)



Obesity costs an estimated $150+ billion per year in additional medical costs.
Alcohol abuse costs an estimated $26 billion per year in additional medical costs.

....would you like me to keep going?

You are welcome to keep going, but I think you miss the point.
You can't equate the devastating cost of alcohol abuse in dollars and cents alone, although that is significant. The destruction of lives, homes, the abuse physical and emotional abuse based on alcohol abuse....not to mention the children adversely affected.

There is a reason scripture is filled with warnings about the consumption of alcohol.
To keep equating alcohol abuse with obesity is whistling past the graveyard.....

 

[rsc2a]

You are welcome to keep going, but I think you miss the point.
You can't equate the devastating cost of alcohol abuse in dollars and cents alone, although that is significant.

Did you forget where you said this...

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!

...in fact, you even made it all caps. If you are wrong about something this obvious, it makes you seem less reliable when you talk about other things.

The destruction of lives, homes, the abuse physical and emotional abuse based on alcohol abuse....not to mention the children adversely affected.

I think you are just being willfully blind to factors leading to various kinds of abuse.

I know individuals who have beaten their children to death because of their "Christian" ideals regarding discipline. Idiot "pastors"  (some of whom I know) write books telling people how to properly beat their kids. Idiot women write books telling other women that the Bible commands them to stay in a home where they are being beaten. Do you think it would be best to abstain from Christianity?

There is a reason scripture is filled with warnings about the consumption of alcohol.
To keep equating alcohol abuse with obesity is whistling past the graveyard.....

Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat... - Proverbs 23:20 (Gluttony and drunkenness is equated.)

...and they shall say to the elders of his city,

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

You are welcome to keep going, but I think you miss the point.
You can't equate the devastating cost of alcohol abuse in dollars and cents alone, although that is significant.

Did you forget where you said this...

I would  say that alcohol abuse stands head and shoulders above other vices.
It is one of the most abused substances and the most costly....IN EVERY WAY!

...in fact, you even made it all caps. If you are wrong about something this obvious, it makes you seem less reliable when you talk about other things.

The destruction of lives, homes, the abuse physical and emotional abuse based on alcohol abuse....not to mention the children adversely affected.

I think you are just being willfully blind to factors leading to various kinds of abuse.

I know individuals who have beaten their children to death because of their "Christian" ideals regarding discipline. Idiot "pastors"  (some of whom I know) write books telling people how to properly beat their kids. Idiot women write books telling other women that the Bible commands them to stay in a home where they are being beaten. Do you think it would be best to abstain from Christianity?

There is a reason scripture is filled with warnings about the consumption of alcohol.
To keep equating alcohol abuse with obesity is whistling past the graveyard.....

Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat... - Proverbs 23:20 (Gluttony and drunkenness is equated.)

...and they shall say to the elders of his city,

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

BTW - there are also OT passages that condone polygamy and slavery.......
Praise the Lord and ask the slave to pass me wife #15!

 

[rsc2a]

Scripture is FILLED with WARNINGS  about ALCOHOL ABUSE.
Alcohol abuse takes a greater toll on individuals and society IN EVERY WAy than any other vice, including gluttony. The court and penal system cost alone is tremendous!
There are no similar costs associated with gluttony.

I guess, if the facts don't fit your narrative, you just ignore the facts. (I'd recommend changing the narrative.)

And verses on alcohol abuse are abundant and well known.
I am thankful that you and anyone else has the liberty to drink.
I am thankful that I don't drink.
I believe flaunting alcohol use in a Church setting does abundantly more harm and little, if any, good.

The verses on gluttony are abundant and well-known. I don't see a thread called "Buffet and Bible Study?".

...and...

"using" ≠ "flaunting" (although I wouldn't use alcohol in a church setting...depending on how you define "church setting")

There is nothing in the realm of scripture, logic or illogic to prove any different.
But I have no problem with you making continued attempts to convince me otherwise.

Obesity and drunkenness are as much alike as a bicycle and a jet plane.

Psychiatry, general medicine, logic, and Scripture call you a liar.

 

[rsc2a]

BTW - there are also OT passages that condone polygamy and slavery.......
Praise the Lord and ask the slave to pass me wife #15!

Care to cite the verses?

And I don't want a lousy proof-text. I want something that exegetically supports what you are saying and takes into consideration both the prevailing culture at the time and the meta-narrative as a whole.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

BTW - there are also OT passages that condone polygamy and slavery.......
Praise the Lord and ask the slave to pass me wife #15!

Care to cite the verses?

And I don't want a lousy proof-text. I want something that exegetically supports what you are saying and takes into consideration both the prevailing culture at the time and the meta-narrative as a whole.

A lousy proof text?
Please......any blind man can see by the OT narrative that slavery and polygamy were commonplace and accepted. That doesn't  mean they were best or blessed by God.

Like alcohol abuse, they caused more problems than they were a blessing.

A man is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
How does obesity compare to drunkenness in ruined lives?
In broken homes?
In causing abuse like alcohol does?
In causing innocent lives to be lost while driving under the influence of calories?
In tying up the court system and taking space in jail and prison because of calorie abuse?

Let me say Bwwwwwwwwwwwwah!

 

[Izdaari]

Those who say Christians ought to all be teetotalers have dropped out several pages ago. Those of us who remain seem to all be agreed that alcohol abuse is bad, and that responsible use of alcohol is ok.

So I'm really not sure what we're arguing about anymore, other than just because we're in the habit of being argumentative.