Views on tithing

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]Yes, but church cleaning, mowing the lawn, repairing items doesn't pay the building mortgage, staff salary, and run the business Church. Face it - can you call your local bank and cut the grass to save money on your home loan?[/quote]

Get rid of the staff. Get rid of the building. Let the members do the job of the Church.

Problem solved.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I agree.  We ought to live a life that honors God.  If we tithe on every breath, the finances is only a portion of our hours.  Other time must be spent in service of the Gospel or active communication with Christ.

 

[Timothy]

[quote author=Timothy]Yes, but church cleaning, mowing the lawn, repairing items doesn't pay the building mortgage, staff salary, and run the business Church. Face it - can you call your local bank and cut the grass to save money on your home loan?

Get rid of the staff. Get rid of the building. Let the members do the job of the Church.

Problem solved.
[/quote]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

I personally believe the management of God's Church needs a turn around. I won't say the way Churches are organized is wrong, but I believe it can be better and should be better. What we need are pastors, elders, and leaders with backbone to change the system, bring God back in, and not worry about giving people that "religious" experience on Sunday morning. Preachers are wondering what is happening all across this land - maybe Church is in a rut and needs to be pushed out.

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Here is another thought:

We are to tithe on all of our increase.  So, what if we don't have any increase?  What if we work a job, but all of the earnings are consumed by mortgage, utilities, groceries, etc?  What if a person earns X, but only increases Y at the end of the month?  Should he tithe on X or Y?

Consider:
Mat 5:23  Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24  Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25  Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26  Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

According to the words of Jesus, you should not bring offerings to church when you are indebted to others.

 

[Timothy]

What if you promise to pay a car loan, home mortgage, take care of wife, pay other debts prior to salvation?

Does God always provide the extra money after tithe to cover these things? Should you really jeopardize the cash to cover those promises?

Some say yes, others say no with a story of tragedy .... but, the preacher says their faith wasn't good (yet, his mortgage is paid)

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

 

[graceandtruth]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

That is a long story which required God's direct intervention reserved for non-internet forum discussion.  (no offense intended)

 

[Timothy]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

My guess is that many just don't know what to do ... and they still see good with their local Church.

 

[christundivided]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

 

[Timothy]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

kind of like trusting an adult with your kids ...

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

My guess is that many just don't know what to do ... and they still see good with their local Church.

Yep.  They are involved.  They have a community of like-minded people they like.  The church is doing alot of good.  But, financially, they are gluttons.  Oh, well, just send money to the missionaries and ignore that part!

Such is the mindset of many in these churches.  Others simply do not understand the love of money is the root of all evil.  When asked, the preacher responds "Having money is not evil, loving money is!"  The sheeple all agree, proclaim the preacher's wisdom and feel good about their desire to be rich.  After all, I don't love money, I just want to have money like preacher!

 

[Timothy]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

My guess is that many just don't know what to do ... and they still see good with their local Church.

Yep.  They are involved.  They have a community of like-minded people they like.  The church is doing alot of good.  But, financially, they are gluttons.  Oh, well, just send money to the missionaries and ignore that part!

Such is the mindset of many in these churches.  Others simply do not understand the love of money is the root of all evil.  When asked, the preacher responds "Having money is not evil, loving money is!"  The sheeple all agree, proclaim the preacher's wisdom and feel good about their desire to be rich.  After all, I don't love money, I just want to have money like preacher!

Using my family as an example. We don't agree with tithe, and other things ... but my children are in a good environment with good teachers for the most part. Plus, my wife teaches Sunday School and plays a great role teaching children about things we agree on. The list can go on how we help and interact with this family of believers .... I learned a long time ago no perfect Church is around - and that would include doctrine as well. We do give some money - just not 10%

 

[Castor Muscular]

I feel convicted now.  From now on, I'm giving 10% of my mint, anise and cumin to the church.

 

[graceandtruth]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

I don't know.  I haven't had a chance to ask the folks in Acts chapters 2 and 4 why they did it.

 

[christundivided]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

I don't know.  I haven't had a chance to ask the folks in Acts chapters 2 and 4 why they did it.

Maybe you should read a few more chapters beside chapter 2 and 4. They soon abandoned the practice. Not to mention, they had a problem with neglecting some and promoting others. If it was any thing other than the Obama Administration, anyone with sense... would do the same thing.

Besides, I don't really believe you really want to sell everything you have an give to a church to let them give it out as they see fit to do it. I think you're being a little insincere.

 

[graceandtruth]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

I don't know.  I haven't had a chance to ask the folks in Acts chapters 2 and 4 why they did it.

Maybe you should read a few more chapters beside chapter 2 and 4. They soon abandoned the practice. Not to mention, they had a problem with neglecting some and promoting others. If it was any thing other than the Obama Administration, anyone with sense... would do the same thing.

Besides, I don't really believe you really want to sell everything you have an give to a church to let them give it out as they see fit to do it. I think you're being a little insincere.

I am up to chapter 6 now and I am wondering where they got the money to provide for the widows?  Maybe some other folks like Barnabas decided not to lay up treasure on earth and lived so that they could trust the church's deacons with what God had blessed them with so that the widows could be cared for.  They may have been prompted by the fact that Nero Administration was going to have to care for the widows if they didn't do something.

I am still looking for the indication that they abandoned that practice.  Maybe chapter 7......... 

 

[Ransom]

Just heard PresbyXer RC Sprola Jr (Sr. believes in tithing too) preach about how often Christians rob God of the tithe (using Malachi 3:10), and rob themselves of a blessing in doing so.  If only that slacker of an exegete would read the FFF he'd know better.

Yes, it's a good thing Sproul is infallible, being a Presbyterian and all that. [rolls eyes]

 

[ALAYMAN]

So you would find Sproul's views on paedobaptism to be founded in solid exegesis?

He can't get 'em all right.


No, my point was that just like many other issues (Calvinism vs Arm, Covenant vs Disp, Alcohol Abstention vs Moderation, etc) the issue of exegesis alone does not settle the matter, as good men come down on each side of the issue by using "sound exegesis". 

But in the case of tithing vs grace-giving, neither is effective at getting Christians to give, as it has been proven many times over that most church-goers give far less than 10% no matter which exegetical/topical method of instruction is used.

 

[christundivided]

Yes, but how would the pastor afford his $500,000 home?

;D  How about the pastor who has 5 vehicles, a boat and two RV's?  :

Why get stuck on tithe? How about get stuck on giving - plain giving to God's work. Is it the local Church? FINE! Is it a missionary you feel you should help? FINE! But don't create some rule about 10% MUST go to a Church, you rob God if you don't give it, and sorry if the staff lives better than you - your faith just stinks and give more.

This WHOLE issue angers me and I wish I had answers .... it is bigger than tithe ....

Yep.  When I have been in situations where I don't trust the finances of a church, I will instead send my offering via paypal to missionaries whom I have met and respected through the years.  These are in actual need of finances rather than allowing the MOG to get more dress shirts monogrammed.

Why remain a part of a group of believers that one doesn't trust with money?  I never understood this philosophy.

Why trust anyone with what God gives you?

I don't know.  I haven't had a chance to ask the folks in Acts chapters 2 and 4 why they did it.

Maybe you should read a few more chapters beside chapter 2 and 4. They soon abandoned the practice. Not to mention, they had a problem with neglecting some and promoting others. If it was any thing other than the Obama Administration, anyone with sense... would do the same thing.

Besides, I don't really believe you really want to sell everything you have an give to a church to let them give it out as they see fit to do it. I think you're being a little insincere.

I am up to chapter 6 now and I am wondering where they got the money to provide for the widows?  Maybe some other folks like Barnabas decided not to lay up treasure on earth and lived so that they could trust the church's deacons with what God had blessed them with so that the widows could be cared for.  They may have been prompted by the fact that Nero Administration was going to have to care for the widows if they didn't do something.

I am still looking for the indication that they abandoned that practice.  Maybe chapter 7......... 

;D

You know they abandoned the practice of selling everything they owned and dumping it at the feet of the apostles for distribution. Your appeal to such actions are frivolous.