The "deterioration" of HAC

[Tennessean]

What is the HAC's endowment?

As of about five years ago they had a grand total of 300k in CD's. I cannot imagine that this situation has improved any in the intervening time.

I thought it was 15 million about 2003.

 

[bgwilkinson]

What is the HAC's endowment?

As of about five years ago they had a grand total of 300k in CD's. I cannot imagine that this situation has improved any in the intervening time.

I thought it was 15 million about 2003.

That would be the Jeopardy answer to the present debt.

 

[sword]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

along a similar thought pattern, it seemed back in the day, financial hardship and financial withdrawal from classes was worn as a badge of courage. Looking back at it, with how long it took some guys, why not work to save money ahead and make the  college experience with less pressure. Of course, that's common sense and I border on getting off the subject.

 

[16KJV11]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

 

[sword]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

 

[4everfsu]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

 

[bgwilkinson]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Because Bible Colleges need the students to pay the bills and it would make way too much sense to stay in your home church work a job and take classes on-line.

Bottom line, the Bible Colleges need the money.

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

I guess, if a guy wants to work full time and go to school that is a option.

I just don't see how that would help his family.

It seems more logical to to stay at ur job and church and do corispondence courses or meet with ur pastor and ask him to meet once or maybe twice a week for bible study.

I mean ur asking a guy with a full blown family to up root and move for college, seems very foolish to me.

You said they would move anyway. Well, moving once seems better than moving twice. Moving a family to college, finding work, which I guess a guy could hope that where he would be, moving the area would have the same industry, bc if they don't oh boy, then find a decent place to live for ur family.

IDK, I just don't think I would have the heart to put my wife through all that, but hey, each his own.

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

along a similar thought pattern, it seemed back in the day, financial hardship and financial withdrawal from classes was worn as a badge of courage. Looking back at it, with how long it took some guys, why not work to save money ahead and make the  college experience with less pressure. Of course, that's common sense and I border on getting off the subject.

Right, I'm on the back side of 30 and I just don't see what bible college would teach me that I couldn't learn where I am in life now? 


But yes I agree with you.

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

Why would a man even try to consider supporting his family at any of these places?

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Makes since to me!!!

 

[TidesofTruth]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Makes since to me!!!

An English class even!

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Makes since to me!!!

An English class even!

LOL! See what happens when I don't have my wife next to me.

I have gotten a little better since I've started posting here. Thanks!

 

[TidesofTruth]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Makes since to me!!!

An English class even!

LOL! See what happens when I don't have my wife next to me.

I have gotten a little better since I've started posting here. Thanks!

I know cheap shot    But since we were talking about accredited education I couldn't resist.

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

If they are called to preach (pastor or missions) they are likely going to move anyway. Moving a family to get training for full time service seem very reasonable to me.

Moving to get a college degree in a secular field from an unaccredited school that will not be accepted by most employers is a whole other matter.

Not sure how a ministry degree from an accredited college is going to be more valuable than a ministry degree from an 'unaccredited' college.
Used car dealerships, Wal Mart and insurance agencies aren't really particular where you went to school anyway.

My point is unless you were going into the ministry why would you go to HAC for your training.

You will find more & more employers are requiring your degree be from an accredited school, same with most government jobs.

Why not get an accredited online ministerial degree? And stay in your local church for any pratical training you can get there.

Makes since to me!!!

An English class even!

LOL! See what happens when I don't have my wife next to me.

I have gotten a little better since I've started posting here. Thanks!

I know cheap shot    But since we were talking about accredited education I couldn't resist.

No worries, no college here, only a public high school diploma, with a bunch of certifications in the oil field.

 

[Justice1976]

Time for an honest opinion:

There were very few HAC students who had their head screwed on straight. Most were just learning to live outside of their home, enjoying college life with other people their age and with their peculiar background. A very small percent would actually go into ministry. Most of the students went along with the program. They whooped and hollered when the admin desired it, just like any college age kid gets caught up in anything as part of a larger community. They worked and served because it was part of the culture and human kind has a natural desire to find acceptance. This place was no different.

Agree 100%. That was pretty much me in the late 70s.

There were rebels in the college. There always was and always will be rebels at any Bible college. Why they are there is up for debate. As a FBCH kid, I saw plenty of HACkers who were punks. During the "glory-years" that some of you speak of: violence was common enough that some staff was run off, the youth pastor was having affairs with girls in the teen group which was being covered up by the pastor and college president (who traded his daughter's security for his position in the college), dorm girls were running off with the local boys so frequently the lock-down took place, so many students brought in rock music that every cassette had to be listened to by staff members in the basement hallway, etc, etc, etc. I am shocked that some of you have forgotten that the system has flaws. During the 90's, the security team was filled with perverts (with a few exceptions) who were rather open about their perversions, student-staff was caught having sex in offices, brawls over which ministry was better were not infrequent, pride was rampant, ministry leaders were caught in abuse and adultery, people broke curfew and, yes, sin happened. FBCH and HAC was a cesspool.

I have no idea what he/she is referring to, except the obvious reference to Dave Hyles and Wendell Evans. On that note, I frankly don’t know a lot of facts. Elsewhere in this thread “bgwilkinson” (I also wonder if he’s still around or posts – he seems interesting) says that the Griffith Police was involved in exposing some of Dave’s activities. I never knew that when I was a student.

As far as “rebels” I came across a few guys who seemed to have attitudes, who might have pushed the hair code just a bit, but retrospectively, it was fairly little league stuff. I think we served as a self-disciplinary bunch for the most part. If anyone got too far out of line, they would get reported to a faculty/staff member who would deal with it. I NEVER knew of a dorm girl getting taken out by a local guy, although local students did have some benefits that weren’t enjoyed by dorm students. Yes, there was some pride – especially in the bus ministry where numbers were everything. I didn’t care for that culture. But I NEVER knew of sex occurring in offices or “perversion.” About the most scandalous behavior I remember was the occasional girl/guy stuff getting caught touching or even making out. But in my four years, I only remember one girl student who got suspended for improper guy/girl behavior. I never herd of “ministry leaders” having “adultery” etc.


I did have a couple of Elvis cassettes in my car. I only played them when I was alone. I’m still a fan of the King!

Still, the vast majority of staff were decent folk. Most of them had a real desire and truly felt they were sacrificing their life and the lives of their family to train the next generation of God's servants which would save America. They had bought Jack Hyles' story about HAC being the only hope for the world hook-line-and-sinker. Truly, I felt and feel sorry for the most of them.

Agree 100%

Did I learn anything there? Yes. But I stayed away from the HACkers and all of their political junk. I was there to learn from whom I desired to learn and ignored the rest. I intentionally chose to study under the only two teachers who had advanced, secular degrees: Dr. Cowling and Dr. Evans. I looked up to them and respected them and have discovered since that they were not what I thought. Judson Mitchell was an incredible teacher whose philosophy of ed was terrific. Since leaving HAC, I have found myself in lectures from state university professors about modern ed methods and best practices for implementing results from recent research. In these lectures, I have often felt like this stuff was nothing more than a refresher from my ed methods classes with Mr. Mitchell. Hence, I feel I learned a good philosophy of ed, ed methods, physics and history.

The academics were lacking. I never had Bro. Mitchell for a class.

There was alot I did not learn. Most of the classes at HAC were a joke, academically. Show up, take a few notes, read less than 200 pages, a little study and you could pass. Work a little more and an A was easy. Summer school was the best: pay a few hundred, show up and you get the credit - you wouldn't even have to take a single quiz or turn in a single assignment. I learned nothing about the Bible that I did not already know. I learned nothing about ministry that I did not already know. I learned nothing about counseling. For a class entitled "Advanced Psychology," Jack Schaap had us read "The One Minute Manager." I kept waiting for him to get to psychology, but, it is HAC. I learned nothing about church history (and I did take Baptist History 1 and 2). I learned nothing about the things one might expect to be taught at a Bible college that was not a normal part of church services.

Pretty much agree with this assessment. The courses weren’t very challenging and it’s true that with a modicum of effort, you could usually score an A or at worst, a B.

Bible colleges like HAC (Go ahead and put in any of them that advertise in any IFB paper), do not pretend to be academically challenging. Their goal is to make you like their preacher. Their "shtick" is simple - come hear and we will teach you to be like us so you can do what we did and have what we have.

Agree

Decline? I think people who want to be in ministry no longer want to be like FBCH. Without those level-headed students who are really headed for ministry, you have what you have become.

Agree. I don’t know of many churches today that still adhere to the model we were exposed to in the seventies. I don’t know of a single church within a couple of hundred miles of where I live that has a thriving bus ministry. Very few have choirs or congregational singing and the ones that do seem to be dying. I don’t know how I feel about that, but just stating what I’m seeing.

 

[sword]

The die was cast, maybe caste too, in the 70s and 80s when DH was praised even though the most vile behavior was occurring with regularity.

Legacy families in the church knew and turned a blind eye until the Griffith Police chief caught him.

We never as a church repented of this gross immorality.

Still haven't.

Still paying the price.

I know you can't speak for others but you were there and in a position to make a difference.

1. why did you remain quiet?
2. Why did you stay?
3. Why did you not warn the parents of teen young ladies?
4. Did the deacons discuss this issue while it was going on.

 

[sword]

Agree 100%. That was pretty much me in the late 70s.

I have no idea what he/she is referring to, except the obvious reference to Dave Hyles and Wendell Evans. On that note, I frankly don’t know a lot of facts. Elsewhere in this thread “bgwilkinson” (I also wonder if he’s still around or posts – he seems interesting) says that the Griffith Police was involved in exposing some of Dave’s activities. I never knew that when I was a student.

As far as “rebels” I came across a few guys who seemed to have attitudes, who might have pushed the hair code just a bit, but retrospectively, it was fairly little league stuff. I think we served as a self-disciplinary bunch for the most part. If anyone got too far out of line, they would get reported to a faculty/staff member who would deal with it. I NEVER knew of a dorm girl getting taken out by a local guy, although local students did have some benefits that weren’t enjoyed by dorm students. Yes, there was some pride – especially in the bus ministry where numbers were everything. I didn’t care for that culture. But I NEVER knew of sex occurring in offices or “perversion.” About the most scandalous behavior I remember was the occasional girl/guy stuff getting caught touching or even making out. But in my four years, I only remember one girl student who got suspended for improper guy/girl behavior. I never herd of “ministry leaders” having “adultery” etc.


I did have a couple of Elvis cassettes in my car. I only played them when I was alone. I’m still a fan of the King!

Agree 100%

The academics were lacking. I never had Bro. Mitchell for a class.

Pretty much agree with this assessment. The courses weren’t very challenging and it’s true that with a modicum of effort, you could usually score an A or at worst, a B.


Agree

Agree. I don’t know of many churches today that still adhere to the model we were exposed to in the seventies. I don’t know of a single church within a couple of hundred miles of where I live that has a thriving bus ministry. Very few have choirs or congregational singing and the ones that do seem to be dying. I don’t know how I feel about that, but just stating what I’m seeing.

Warren Storm from Keep the Busses Rolling Missions says there are less bus ministries today then 20 years ago, but there are still thriving bus ministries in every state. He travels the country and helps churchs with Bus repair, purchasing, Bus ministry organization and preaching.

Justace my I ask what state you live in. many states have old fashioned Fundamental Bible Believing churchs that still practice the traditions we grew up with. many of the churches that advertise in the Sword of the Lord would fit that bill. Over the decades churches should change their methods to better fit the age they live in but they should do this without changing their bible doctrine and standards.

 

[Justice1976]

Warren Storm from Keep the Busses Rolling Missions says there are less bus ministries today then 20 years ago, but there are still thriving bus ministries in every state. He travels the country and helps churchs with Bus repair, purchasing, Bus ministry organization and preaching.

Justace my I ask what state you live in. many states have old fashioned Fundamental Bible Believing churchs that still practice the traditions we grew up with. many of the churches that advertise in the Sword of the Lord would fit that bill. Over the decades churches should change their methods to better fit the age they live in but they should do this without changing their bible doctrine and standards.

I’m deep in the southeast.