The "deterioration" of HAC
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sword said:
Most of HAC's classes were not challenging. For the most part I do not remember teachers being late or unprepared. I will say, Mrs. Evans was always "late" but Mrs. Moffitt was there to open class by design.
The problem with many of the classes was content. A lot of the teaching was shallow. Very few teachers actually covered the complete course material by the end of the semester. This was very frustrating to me.
Now, with all that being said, HAC was never promoted as an academically superior college. HAC was promoted as a "if you want to learn how to build and reach people through an IFB church like First Baptist Hammond, HAC is the place!" It was always promoted as a "hands on" training college.
My question for Joshua, when he says rock music in the dorms
In my day in college some people would refer to the Cathedrals as "rock music".
So was the rock music he heard Gaither type stuff? CCM? Or actually secular music?
In my day in college some people would refer to the Cathedrals as "rock music".
So was the rock music he heard Gaither type stuff? CCM? Or actually secular music?
RAIDER said:
Agree with your last paragraph, and often times I have to stop myself from getting frustrated with my education, and remind myself I went for a "Christian School Education". I just should have made a different choice of colleges-so my fault on that!!
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I know that "outsiders" must read our posts about HAC and think that we are all a bunch of idiots for attending. They must think that the only thing produced were a bunch of losers who are no longer in full time Christian service or possibly not even in church.
The truth is that there are 100s of men pastoring wonderful IFB churches that are HAC grads. There are 100s of men and women who graduated from HAC that are in full time Christian service. There are a multitude of HAC grads that are missionaries on the foreign field. There are (and I don't believe I am exaggerating) 1000s of full time Christian workers who were influenced by Pastor's School.
While we criticize out Alma Mater for various things we must also give credit where credit is due.
The truth is that there are 100s of men pastoring wonderful IFB churches that are HAC grads. There are 100s of men and women who graduated from HAC that are in full time Christian service. There are a multitude of HAC grads that are missionaries on the foreign field. There are (and I don't believe I am exaggerating) 1000s of full time Christian workers who were influenced by Pastor's School.
While we criticize out Alma Mater for various things we must also give credit where credit is due.
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What makes me curious is this: Did you learn anything there that you really could not have figured out for yourself?
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brainisengaged said:
Valid point. I was serving God before I went to HAC, and they tried to destroy me for objecting to the gang violence. These Godly HAC pastors--would they have also served if they had graduated somewhere else? Did they become Godly at HAC or were they already living for God? Do they personally state that they owe their success to their HAC education?
A disproportionately high percentage of HAC grads in the ministry are the sons of pastors--they had extra help that most HAC grads didn't have.
But to be fair to Raider, HAC did teach me to do successful outreach and to work hard.
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What did HAC teach me? ... What did HAC teach me?... What did HAC teach me?....
I'll have to get back to you on that one.
I'll have to get back to you on that one.
Vince Massi said:
Well, you did learn the phrase "tried to destroy me" from hac. I seriously doubt that all of the people who preached and claimed someone tried to "destroy" them were important enough to have an enemy that would try to "destroy" them. This phrase still sends me up the wall. Probably heard it a hundred times in preaching services.
Quote from: Vince Massi
Another factoid you discovered by using the total of Google search results?
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Time for an honest opinion:
There were very few HAC students who had their head screwed on straight. Most were just learning to live outside of their home, enjoying college life with other people their age and with their peculiar background. A very small percent would actually go into ministry. Most of the students went along with the program. They whooped and hollered when the admin desired it, just like any college age kid gets caught up in anything as part of a larger community. They worked and served because it was part of the culture and human kind has a natural desire to find acceptance. This place was no different.
There were rebels in the college. There always was and always will be rebels at any Bible college. Why they are there is up for debate. As a FBCH kid, I saw plenty of HACkers who were punks. During the "glory-years" that some of you speak of: violence was common enough that some staff was run off, the youth pastor was having affairs with girls in the teen group which was being covered up by the pastor and college president (who traded his daughter's security for his position in the college), dorm girls were running off with the local boys so frequently the lock-down took place, so many students brought in rock music that every cassette had to be listened to by staff members in the basement hallway, etc, etc, etc. I am shocked that some of you have forgotten that the system has flaws. During the 90's, the security team was filled with perverts (with a few exceptions) who were rather open about their perversions, student-staff was caught having sex in offices, brawls over which ministry was better were not infrequent, pride was rampant, ministry leaders were caught in abuse and adultery, people broke curfew and, yes, sin happened. FBCH and HAC was a cesspool.
Still, the vast majority of staff were decent folk. Most of them had a real desire and truly felt they were sacrificing their life and the lives of their family to train the next generation of God's servants which would save America. They had bought Jack Hyles' story about HAC being the only hope for the world hook-line-and-sinker. Truly, I felt and feel sorry for the most of them.
Did I learn anything there? Yes. But I stayed away from the HACkers and all of their political junk. I was there to learn from whom I desired to learn and ignored the rest. I intentionally chose to study under the only two teachers who had advanced, secular degrees: Dr. Cowling and Dr. Evans. I looked up to them and respected them and have discovered since that they were not what I thought. Judson Mitchell was an incredible teacher whose philosophy of ed was terrific. Since leaving HAC, I have found myself in lectures from state university professors about modern ed methods and best practices for implementing results from recent research. In these lectures, I have often felt like this stuff was nothing more than a refresher from my ed methods classes with Mr. Mitchell. Hence, I feel I learned a good philosophy of ed, ed methods, physics and history.
There was alot I did not learn. Most of the classes at HAC were a joke, academically. Show up, take a few notes, read less than 200 pages, a little study and you could pass. Work a little more and an A was easy. Summer school was the best: pay a few hundred, show up and you get the credit - you wouldn't even have to take a single quiz or turn in a single assignment. I learned nothing about the Bible that I did not already know. I learned nothing about ministry that I did not already know. I learned nothing about counseling. For a class entitled "Advanced Psychology," Jack Schaap had us read "The One Minute Manager." I kept waiting for him to get to psychology, but, it is HAC. I learned nothing about church history (and I did take Baptist History 1 and 2). I learned nothing about the things one might expect to be taught at a Bible college that was not a normal part of church services.
Bible colleges like HAC (Go ahead and put in any of them that advertise in any IFB paper), do not pretend to be academically challenging. Their goal is to make you like their preacher. Their "shtick" is simple - come hear and we will teach you to be like us so you can do what we did and have what we have.
Decline? I think people who want to be in ministry no longer want to be like FBCH. Without those level-headed students who are really headed for ministry, you have what you have become.
There were very few HAC students who had their head screwed on straight. Most were just learning to live outside of their home, enjoying college life with other people their age and with their peculiar background. A very small percent would actually go into ministry. Most of the students went along with the program. They whooped and hollered when the admin desired it, just like any college age kid gets caught up in anything as part of a larger community. They worked and served because it was part of the culture and human kind has a natural desire to find acceptance. This place was no different.
There were rebels in the college. There always was and always will be rebels at any Bible college. Why they are there is up for debate. As a FBCH kid, I saw plenty of HACkers who were punks. During the "glory-years" that some of you speak of: violence was common enough that some staff was run off, the youth pastor was having affairs with girls in the teen group which was being covered up by the pastor and college president (who traded his daughter's security for his position in the college), dorm girls were running off with the local boys so frequently the lock-down took place, so many students brought in rock music that every cassette had to be listened to by staff members in the basement hallway, etc, etc, etc. I am shocked that some of you have forgotten that the system has flaws. During the 90's, the security team was filled with perverts (with a few exceptions) who were rather open about their perversions, student-staff was caught having sex in offices, brawls over which ministry was better were not infrequent, pride was rampant, ministry leaders were caught in abuse and adultery, people broke curfew and, yes, sin happened. FBCH and HAC was a cesspool.
Still, the vast majority of staff were decent folk. Most of them had a real desire and truly felt they were sacrificing their life and the lives of their family to train the next generation of God's servants which would save America. They had bought Jack Hyles' story about HAC being the only hope for the world hook-line-and-sinker. Truly, I felt and feel sorry for the most of them.
Did I learn anything there? Yes. But I stayed away from the HACkers and all of their political junk. I was there to learn from whom I desired to learn and ignored the rest. I intentionally chose to study under the only two teachers who had advanced, secular degrees: Dr. Cowling and Dr. Evans. I looked up to them and respected them and have discovered since that they were not what I thought. Judson Mitchell was an incredible teacher whose philosophy of ed was terrific. Since leaving HAC, I have found myself in lectures from state university professors about modern ed methods and best practices for implementing results from recent research. In these lectures, I have often felt like this stuff was nothing more than a refresher from my ed methods classes with Mr. Mitchell. Hence, I feel I learned a good philosophy of ed, ed methods, physics and history.
There was alot I did not learn. Most of the classes at HAC were a joke, academically. Show up, take a few notes, read less than 200 pages, a little study and you could pass. Work a little more and an A was easy. Summer school was the best: pay a few hundred, show up and you get the credit - you wouldn't even have to take a single quiz or turn in a single assignment. I learned nothing about the Bible that I did not already know. I learned nothing about ministry that I did not already know. I learned nothing about counseling. For a class entitled "Advanced Psychology," Jack Schaap had us read "The One Minute Manager." I kept waiting for him to get to psychology, but, it is HAC. I learned nothing about church history (and I did take Baptist History 1 and 2). I learned nothing about the things one might expect to be taught at a Bible college that was not a normal part of church services.
Bible colleges like HAC (Go ahead and put in any of them that advertise in any IFB paper), do not pretend to be academically challenging. Their goal is to make you like their preacher. Their "shtick" is simple - come hear and we will teach you to be like us so you can do what we did and have what we have.
Decline? I think people who want to be in ministry no longer want to be like FBCH. Without those level-headed students who are really headed for ministry, you have what you have become.
Bruh said:
Had Schaap for English, didn't ya?
Bruh said:
To be honest I had a couple of really good teachers. However here is the main issue, anyone who spent time there knew real quick why Paul Chappel never went for accreditation. It had nothing to do with the Bible. It had everything to do with the fact that, at the time, WCBC could never meet the standards of accreditation.
Case in point, when the head of the Bible department has only a Bachelor's degree that was unaccredited when he received it, you know you are in trouble. :
