The "deterioration" of HAC

[prophet]

Have the academic standards at HAC always been low. The first hand accounts I have heard recently, from former students, about their classes have been disgraceful.  The stories of teachers always arriving late, being unprepared, or just telling stories all hour are common. To spend a semester attending a class every week & having very little work assigned & to learn little or nothing is inexcusable.

Can I get some first hand experience in this matter. Are these isolated incidents or are they common through out HAC?
Has it always been this way and if not when did the downward slide began?

Walt, this is truer than you know. I always wondered about these fairly small baptist churches starting their own colleges. It seems that the natural progression was evangelism, start a bus ministry, and (if all goes well) start a college. How in the world can a pastor in a fairly small church expect to be able to give a college education to young people with so few resources? Until one day I heard one of them say that he was losing his best workers because they were going off somewhere else to bible college.
This is a symptom of "college" that is really "free labor for the church".

At least you have to pay for slaves, but in this sweet deal, the "slaves" are paying for the privilege of being worked hard.

Never thought of myself as free labor for the church...I honestly believe that I received a whole lot more than I gave while I labored for the Lord in the church. I'm thankful that the two men in my church didn't have a sour attitude when the labored for 14 free hours to put a new ceramic tile floor in our church.

It's one thing to volunteer of one's own free will, but (as I understand it), college students don't have a  choice. I thought all freshmen were required to work the bus ministry.  A non-student can decide that his family is suffering from his not being around and pull back or drop out of his activities, but not a student.

When one's service to the Lord becomes mandatory, it is no longer "service to the Lord".

When I was there, one was required to work in the bus ministry for at least one semester (maybe 2, my memory is failing) of your choosing, not necessarily in your freshman year.  I have no problem with that. Nowadays, (I may be wrong about this, but i dont thin so) but many secular colleges require some form of community service to either get in the school or to graduate.  The biggest emphasis that HAC stood for was service, a burden for the lost, having a burning heart to love and serve the Lord.  You don't get these things in a classroom or hanging around the student union or the bowling alley.

That is the upside, and this is a thread about the downside....get it right, chairforce!!!

Jawol herr swabbi lite!

Iski dontski understandski.

He's saying I ain't even worthy of being called a Sailor.

I'll say this...I'm glad that I'm not any where near you.

Don't tell me that you don't have any Pollocks in the Pittsburgh area.
[/quote]
Yeah, a whole generation of NFL pro-bowlers came from West P.A., like....Ditka

DA Bears!!!

 

[GeneFrenkle]

The die was cast, maybe caste too, in the 70s and 80s when DH was praised even though the most vile behavior was occurring with regularity.

Legacy families in the church knew and turned a blind eye until the Griffith Police chief caught him.

We never as a church repented of this gross immorality.

Still haven't.

Still paying the price.

That would require Eddie coming clean.  That won't happen.

 

[TheVoice]

On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

I am a recent HAC student and am fairly certain I personally know the Original poster to which you refer.

Based on my personal experience I would say the examples of sexting and sexual activity may very well be a case of a "few bad apples" I can state however that ,while against the rules, movies are on every laptop in the computer. It stands to reason then that the bad apples could easily have R-rated movies, sexting, etc. sense the admiration is not willing to search electronics. I do not know if  this is because administration knows what they would find and don't care or if they simply are willingly ignorant Honestly don't know which is worse either.

As for the question - "Has HAC deteriorated?" I can not speak much as I was not their 30 years ago but I can relate my story. My story is somewhat similar as a MK I was sheltered but returned to US for mot of my high school. I quickly learned that many of the students were forced to go to the local Christian school, and half the parents who forced them didn't agree with all the rules either. As note by OP and others HAC has many kids forced (or at least highly pressured to go to Bible college). For this reason maybe I was more able to distinguish between students looking to push the rules and students looking to sin then maybe the OP was.

The biggest problem I saw at HAC was not the "bad apples" but the lukewarm attitude of many of the other students. The "Good" kids spent hours reading leadership books and sales books but never cracked their Bible open. They made list of their bus kids based off names and phone numbers not prayer request and needs. They never studied their Bible instead  they were always writing sermons.

In summary would say the bad apples were probably 1 in 6 and the Lukewarm were 4 in 6. Those who were sold out were the other 1 in 6.

Had the privilege my senior year of having one of the sold out 1 in 6 as a roommate and as OP commented about a roommate - he deeply challenged my and helped me grow a lot.

 

[RAIDER]

On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

I am a recent HAC student and am fairly certain I personally know the Original poster to which you refer.

Based on my personal experience I would say the examples of sexting and sexual activity may very well be a case of a "few bad apples" I can state however that ,while against the rules, movies are on every laptop in the computer. It stands to reason then that the bad apples could easily have R-rated movies, sexting, etc. sense the admiration is not willing to search electronics. I do not know if  this is because administration knows what they would find and don't care or if they simply are willingly ignorant Honestly don't know which is worse either.

As for the question - "Has HAC deteriorated?" I can not speak much as I was not their 30 years ago but I can relate my story. My story is somewhat similar as a MK I was sheltered but returned to US for mot of my high school. I quickly learned that many of the students were forced to go to the local Christian school, and half the parents who forced them didn't agree with all the rules either. As note by OP and others HAC has many kids forced (or at least highly pressured to go to Bible college). For this reason maybe I was more able to distinguish between students looking to push the rules and students looking to sin then maybe the OP was.

The biggest problem I saw at HAC was not the "bad apples" but the lukewarm attitude of many of the other students. The "Good" kids spent hours reading leadership books and sales books but never cracked their Bible open. They made list of their bus kids based off names and phone numbers not prayer request and needs. They never studied their Bible instead  they were always writing sermons.

In summary would say the bad apples were probably 1 in 6 and the Lukewarm were 4 in 6. Those who were sold out were the other 1 in 6.

Had the privilege my senior year of having one of the sold out 1 in 6 as a roommate and as OP commented about a roommate - he deeply challenged my and helped me grow a lot.

Thank you.

 

[Tennessean]

On another thread a new poster was commenting on how he came to HAC with a desire to do right and serve God.  He mentioned that he has been a student for the past 3 years.  He claims that rock music is being played in the dorms, R rated movies are being watched, dorm students are sexting as well as being sexually active.  He says that the dorm sups know this is going on and they turn a blind eye to it.

I am a recent HAC student and am fairly certain I personally know the Original poster to which you refer.

Based on my personal experience I would say the examples of sexting and sexual activity may very well be a case of a "few bad apples" I can state however that ,while against the rules, movies are on every laptop in the computer. It stands to reason then that the bad apples could easily have R-rated movies, sexting, etc. sense the admiration is not willing to search electronics. I do not know if  this is because administration knows what they would find and don't care or if they simply are willingly ignorant Honestly don't know which is worse either.

As for the question - "Has HAC deteriorated?" I can not speak much as I was not their 30 years ago but I can relate my story. My story is somewhat similar as a MK I was sheltered but returned to US for mot of my high school. I quickly learned that many of the students were forced to go to the local Christian school, and half the parents who forced them didn't agree with all the rules either. As note by OP and others HAC has many kids forced (or at least highly pressured to go to Bible college). For this reason maybe I was more able to distinguish between students looking to push the rules and students looking to sin then maybe the OP was.

The biggest problem I saw at HAC was not the "bad apples" but the lukewarm attitude of many of the other students. The "Good" kids spent hours reading leadership books and sales books but never cracked their Bible open. They made list of their bus kids based off names and phone numbers not prayer request and needs. They never studied their Bible instead  they were always writing sermons.

In summary would say the bad apples were probably 1 in 6 and the Lukewarm were 4 in 6. Those who were sold out were the other 1 in 6.

Had the privilege my senior year of having one of the sold out 1 in 6 as a roommate and as OP commented about a roommate - he deeply challenged my and helped me grow a lot.

Voice,

What was the college enrollment your last year there?

 

[TheVoice]

Voice,

What was the college enrollment your last year there?

My freshman year was probably right around 1,200. By junior year it was probably closer to 900. After JS was caught probably was 450-600. I was working a lot that semester because of some personal health problems creating some debt so not 100% sure.

 

[qwerty]

I have heard that they allow you to hang stuff on the walls with tape rather than sticky track.  The end is near.

 

[sword]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

 

[qwerty]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

 

[RAIDER]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

Good thoughts.

 

[Tennessean]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

Good thoughts.

Would one of the reasons for numerical decline be the lack of older married students? In a recent chapel pic most students look to be around 18-25. In the 80's & 90's there were several hundred married students that packed up and moved their families to Hammond. These families increased the size of the college, the elem- high schools, and fbc. It doesn't seem as if these families sre moving lock, stock and barrell anymore with the development of online classes.

 

[qwerty]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

Good thoughts.

Would one of the reasons for numerical decline be the lack of older married students? In a recent chapel pic most students look to be around 18-25. In the 80's & 90's there were several hundred married students that packed up and moved their families to Hammond. These families increased the size of the college, the elem- high schools, and fbc. It doesn't seem as if these families sre moving lock, stock and barrell anymore with the development of online classes.

Agreed, and ending the Evening College did not help that either.

 

[16KJV11]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

Good thoughts.

Would one of the reasons for numerical decline be the lack of older married students? In a recent chapel pic most students look to be around 18-25. In the 80's & 90's there were several hundred married students that packed up and moved their families to Hammond. These families increased the size of the college, the elem- high schools, and fbc. It doesn't seem as if these families sre moving lock, stock and barrell anymore with the development of online classes.

Agreed, and ending the Evening College did not help that either.

Agreed, night college added a whole new dimension to college. 

 

[Norefund]

What would be the reason for someone to uproot their family to move to HAC/FBC now? Back in the day, people did it because they believed that studying under Jack Hyles was the thing God wanted them to do. I doubt that happened under Schaap and I really think that it certainly wouldn't happen post Schaap.

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

Good thoughts.

Would one of the reasons for numerical decline be the lack of older married students? In a recent chapel pic most students look to be around 18-25. In the 80's & 90's there were several hundred married students that packed up and moved their families to Hammond. These families increased the size of the college, the elem- high schools, and fbc. It doesn't seem as if these families sre moving lock, stock and barrell anymore with the development of online classes.

 

[RAIDER]

What would be the reason for someone to uproot their family to move to HAC/FBC now? Back in the day, people did it because they believed that studying under Jack Hyles was the thing God wanted them to do. I doubt that happened under Schaap and I really think that it certainly wouldn't happen post Schaap.

Hammond is quite beautiful this time of year. 

 

[Bruh]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College. 

 

[Tennessean]

If brother Wilkerson invited you to come to Hammond for a few days on his dime & asked you to make recommendations to improve the college, what list of things would you suggest.

Can HAC recover or is its best day behind it?

HAC is in a really precarious situation.  I highly doubt that they will ever have the attendance to justify the campus at 8400 Burr, too large for Baptist-City, and the ministry can not take on more debt to build dorms near the church.  The amount of money it takes to heat the buildings is probably weighing pretty hard on them right now, and so much of that is wasted space.  Dorm wings are empty, chapel is sparse, entire hallways of offices with few occupied.

The first inclination is to suggest selling the college, hold classes at FBCH, but dorm residency is a problem.  The college would also be difficult to sell due to the demolition costs.  The original building is a beast; the same contractors built the Salesian's property in Cedar Lake and no one wants to buy the beautiful property, 2 lakes, and rolling hills because they would spend a fortune in demolition and hazmat costs. The college is about 10-15 times the size of it.  I can not see anyone purchasing it to utilize it for any other purpose.

Because of this situation, I believe it is just a matter of time until eventually some serious changes will need to be made.  The decision to build the new auditorium in Hammond (in direct conflict with where Dr. Hyles would have built the next auditorium) sealed the college's fate if there was ever an issue with attendance.

Small, private colleges (not just IFB schools) have taken a big hit in recent years.  Community colleges and trade schools that are close to home are much more appealing to students.  You can hardly swing a cat without hitting an IFB institute in someone's local church.  I do feel that is a much better way to go if one wishes to pursue that type of education.  The number of schools to choose from now makes it harder HAC to make it, plus the storm clouds of controversy do not make the arctic mid-west more appealing.

What is the HAC's endowment?

 

[Norefund]

With a family of my own, I don't see how any married man would move anywhere for Bible College.

Agreed.

 

[Fresh Air]

What is the HAC's endowment?

As of about five years ago they had a grand total of 300k in CD's. I cannot imagine that this situation has improved any in the intervening time.

 

[FSSL]

Call it "Hyles-Anderson International University."

THAT will save the college!