So, what did you/do you believe?

[RAIDER]

You are very perceptive. That is exactly why we kept quiet. We did not want to hurt Bro. Hyles ministry.

I realize people can become twisted in their thinking.  I was not referring to the average blindly loyal follower.  We are talking about a man who supposedly knew his wife was doing who knows what with another guy.  He continues to promote and serve with the guy for multiple years.  And we are suppose to believe he let it all go on so that he would not hurt Dr. Hyles' ministry?

 

[bgwilkinson]

You are very perceptive. That is exactly why we kept quiet. We did not want to hurt Bro. Hyles ministry.

I realize people can become twisted in their thinking.  I was not referring to the average blindly loyal follower.  We are talking about a man who supposedly knew his wife was doing who knows what with another guy.  He continues to promote and serve with the guy for multiple years.  And we are suppose to believe he let it all go on so that he would not hurt Dr. Hyles' ministry?

VN loved Bro. Hyles dearly. I believe he thought he was serving the cause of Christ by letting JH have his wife. This all came to a head after many years of keeping quiet when one night at deacons meeting he accused JH of commuting adultery with his wife. He compared JH to King David.
It was then on the record as a public relationship.

 

[Fresh Air]

I am a graduate of HAC.
My views are basically identical to Tom Brennan.

I have come to these conclusions independently but based on the same sources. If you search the internet with an open mind those are the conclusions you will reach. (Vic and Linda aren't credible, Voyle is credible, Hyles' staff is largely not credible, etc.)

I'm curious - and just adding to the discussion - since you hold Voyle credible, what do you do with the idea that Voyle holds Linda to be completely credible, as is evidenced by his latest blog entry, which is a favorable view of her and her book?  I'm not trying to be antagonistic, again, just adding to the discussion.

I think Voyle is making a mistake in judgment motivated by his desire for people to see that he has been right all along. In this, he reminds me a bit of the KJVO types who promote Gail Riplinger as a resource. They are both leaning on a broken reed, and one that will pierce their hand, IMHO.

 

[prophet]

I attended fbch for most of 1978-2006.
When Smellin Coffee's brother told me what he thought (by the way, he was a good man, not at all rebellious), I thought then what I do now....that God would bring the truth to light.  I learned through it all that no one has ever seen Jack Hyles in an adultery situation, and there is not one person who claims to be an eyewitness of such.  I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.
I learned that Jack Hyles was a very insecure man, and that all of his bravado was bluff.
I learned that his teaching on hiring someone else's wife as your secretary, because she'll work for less money, is a fatally flawed, and unscriptural practice.  Eph. 5 tells us that in the context of the church, wives should only be submitting to 'their own husband' and not someone else's. Adherence to scripture would have helped, here.
I learned that fundamentalism was a cancer, that had destroyed the local new testament baptist church, by mixing it's doctrine and practices in with protestantism.
I learned that fundamentalists blindly follow their leaders, until they fall, and then they turn on the fallen, as if they hated them all along.
Lots more to add, bottom line...Jack Hyles had a lot of flaws, adultery wasn't one.

Anishinabe

 

[bgwilkinson]

I am a graduate of HAC.
My views are basically identical to Tom Brennan.

I have come to these conclusions independently but based on the same sources. If you search the internet with an open mind those are the conclusions you will reach. (Vic and Linda aren't credible, Voyle is credible, Hyles' staff is largely not credible, etc.)

I'm curious - and just adding to the discussion - since you hold Voyle credible, what do you do with the idea that Voyle holds Linda to be completely credible, as is evidenced by his latest blog entry, which is a favorable view of her and her book?  I'm not trying to be antagonistic, again, just adding to the discussion.

I think Voyle is making a mistake in judgment motivated by his desire for people to see that he has been right all along. In this, he reminds me a bit of the KJVO types who promote Gail Riplinger as a resource. They are both leaning on a broken reed, and one that will pierce their hand, IMHO.

Voyle is  basically correct in his book. I just finished reading the Kindle edition and I can unequivocally confirm this. I did not find anything that did not match the facts as I watched them unfold. When it first came out I refused to read it or believe it could be correct. I wish I had read it then, I could have confirmed then instead of waiting decades. I was willfully blind. I have repented and confessed my sin.

 

[RAIDER]

VN loved Bro. Hyles dearly. I believe he thought he was serving the cause of Christ by letting JH have his wife. This all came to a head after many years of keeping quiet when one night at deacons meeting he accused JH of commuting adultery with his wife. He compared JH to King David.
It was then on the record as a public relationship.

When VN accused Dr. Hyles I believe I remember Hyles saying the VN had mental problems.  I realize that could be construed as a false counter attack, but in reading your last post I believe it could be true.

 

[RAIDER]

I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.

This is an interesting point that few people ever discuss.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I was a kid when it all broke.  I remember sitting in church when Bro. Hyles "Dropped the Bomb."  Basically, I was upset that we weren't going to get to play area schools anymore.  That's really all I knew.  Some people didn't like Bro. Hyles and were saying bad things about some of the people at the church.  So, we couldn't compete against those schools anymore.  I remember when DH came back to Hammond - the preparatory sermons about offering second chances, the woman at the well, etc.  I remember when JH heartbrokenly admitted that Dave had messed up and he (JH) had made mistakes. 

As I grew older, Bro. Hyles became my friend.  No, we didn't spend much time together, but it was enough to establish a relationship.  He was a real friend to me.  I spoke with JH personally about much of the "Spritual Abuse" and the infighting among ministries and other pastors and other such things commonly discussed here.

A few years ago, I began to ask around and then read around. 

I believe that Bro. Hyles sacrificed his family on the altar of ministry.  It is hard to say that he wasn't told about Dave.  I personally believe he chose not to believe it because the truth hurt so bad.  Whatever the reason, JH made a mistake in not taking action (Only a few people in this world know if he took action privately - maybe he privately scolded and hoped it would go away?).  I believe JH was forced to acknowledge that mistake and years later somewhat apologized/confessed his mistakes in parenting.  I believe the decision of his children to not pattern their life in the same way he had patterned his own was his great heartache in life.

I do not believe the stories of the affair with JN.  The claims simply are not supported by reasonable people, as Tom Brennan so eloquently stated.  I find it interesting that Norefund now claims there was never a physical relationship, but that all the accusers are absolutely correct.  I read Sumner's accusation.  I read Hyles's defense.  I think that JH and JN may have been very close as they worked together, but I also think that VN sought to blame someone else for his marriage falling apart rather than taking correction and seeking to fix his marriage.  In any divorce, children are told different stories from the different parents.  Who they believe is up to them and does not always reflect truth.  Years of anger and hurt and bitterness then become nearly impossible to overcome.

I think Linda was hurt in her home life and ran away from the hurt.  In seeking counsel from other religions and secularists, she has blamed her past rather embracing all things working together for good that she may be conformed to the image of Christ.

I know that Bro. Hyles did not desire the rabid followship that became so much of the movement.  It was promoted by the minions and he decided to go along and play with it (wrong decision).  I know that much of what HAC became was not the desire of JH, it was the work of the minions.

 

[Norefund]

I find it interesting that Norefund now claims there was never a physical relationship, but that all the accusers are absolutely correct.

I said I don't know if the relationship was actually physical. As many take great delight in pointing out, there isn't any physical proof. The very act of intimacy usually leaves no proof anyway. I don't at all doubt the affair. I choose to use the word affair, as Jack Hyles own daughter has, because it doesn't matter if this was physical or just overly intimate. The relationship existed. I don't know how anyone can doubt it. Judy Nischik Johnson's account of the lovey dovey phone calls, the door, the refusal to remove the door, the refusal to even acknowledge that the door existed later after the refusal to remove the door, the firing and absolute skewering of George Godfrey after he pleaded for Jack Hyles to switch Jennie's office or remove the door to avoid the appearance of evil. Sheesh, people....what reasonable man with his ministry under suspicion would have not done the reasonable thing and show some propriety and make it visible that no improper relationship exists? It would have been very easy to address the rumor by moving Jennie's office. Yet, no such action was taken. Instead, skewer any "rumor monger" that dared look.

I believe that Bro. Hyles sacrificed his family on the altar of ministry.

A man that would do that is capable of anything. Step up. Those of you who support JH...step up. Tell us how you are willing, for the good of your ministry, to sacrifice your family. Tell us how you think that was the right thing to do and how it saved America.

After reading Linda's 2nd chapter, I now think the relationship with Jennie was the Genesis of everything that went bad after that. It wasn't always the rabid environment it became. Why didn't JH take an action about Dave? Could it be because he might expose his father and Jennie?

 

[Norefund]

I saw him retire to the basement and say goodnight. I though nothing of it until one of the Hyles children explained that he lived down there and slept there every night. I learned a great deal more as time went on.

Jack Hyles lived in his basement for even longer than that. Again, I saw it.

Chapter 2 of Linda's book tells the story of how he explained it to his children.

You saw him living in the basement?  Did you see him sleeping there?  Did you see him eating his meals there?  What did you see him doing in the basement that would make you think he was living there?

 

[tobytyler]

In 1990 or 1991, DH was found on a darkened Schererville street with a female secretary from HBJHS.  A police report was made unbeknownst to the principals who voted to let the secretary keep her job.
A few BRAVE deacons brought up the issue in a deacons meeting;  it became very public and still nothing changed. Had HB students been found in the car, they'd been expelled.  But this secretary kept her job.

A copy of the police report was anonymously mailed to some of the deacons to ensure that they knew that it was legit.  Vogel swears that he was told that there was no police report made;  by whom, I don't know.

So lying and cover up continued in protecting DH even when he came back to Hammond by JH.  Many good families left the church over this event.

 

[BALAAM]

In 1990 or 1991, DH was found on a darkened Schererville street with a female secretary from HBJHS.  A police report was made unbeknownst to the principals who voted to let the secretary keep her job.
A few BRAVE deacons brought up the issue in a deacons meeting;  it became very public and still nothing changed. Had a HB students been found in the car, they'd been expelled.  But this secretary kept her job.

A copy of the police report was anonymously mailed to some of the deacons to ensure that they knew that it was legit.  Vogel swears that he was told that there was no police report made;  by whom, I don't know.

So lying and cover up continued in protecting DH even when he came back to Hammond by JH.  Many good families left the church over this event.

We need to get SmellinCoffee to weigh in on this one. If I am not mistaken he worked for the police dept. or something like that at the time and was involved.

 

[Norefund]

I had a copy of that police report. It happened. I really would prefer that we not go to deep on this one as the woman involved and her husband have reconciled and I don't see the point. Dave Hyles has no credibility with anyone on here and even the most ardent JH supporter here believes JH turned a deaf ear to Dave's affairs. 

 

[qwerty]

  I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.

This is an interesting point that few people ever discuss.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....

 

[bgwilkinson]

Those of you who live in the Calumet region will know about this others might not.
Just a few months ago a former policeman by the name of Drew Peterson was convicted of the murder of his wife.
They had no eye witnesses against him.
They could not place him at the scene of the crime.
They had no finger prints.
According to JH philosophy he should not have been accused.
He should have gotten off right? Wrong. He was convicted on the weight of hearsay evidence alone.
He is now serving a life sentence for murder.

If you take the Drew Peterson  murder case and apply those principles to the JH case you would convict JH on the weight of hearsay alone.
We know he had opportunity. The not so secret door between the offices. It would all have been very private. No way to witness it.
He had motive.
He always had JN sitting directly behind him in the choir. Just three feet from him when he was sitting down on the platform.
More than one visitor had asked me if JN was his wife.
She carried on continuously during the song service with him.
No his wife is sitting across the isle from JN.
He had the means.

Rom_14:16  Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

It was Bro. Hyles responsibly to take measures so as not to give the appearance of evil. It sure did look bad all those years.
He has no one to blame but himself.
We had covered for him all those years.
Now the elephant in the room is just too big.
And far too smelly to ignore any longer.

 

[Norefund]

Where are the demands for proof on this accusation?

  I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.

This is an interesting point that few people ever discuss.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....

 

[bgwilkinson]

Where are the demands for proof on this accusation?

  I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.

This is an interesting point that few people ever discuss.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....

I never heard this one back in the 70's. What is the time frame on it?

 

[Torrent v.3]

I guess I have a hard time understanding how you guys can dismiss Vic, Linda, Judy and Jack Nischik as having no credibility but still go with trusting Jack Hyles weak denials even though you acknowledge his outright lies from the pulpit. You should spend $1.99 and read the second chapter of Linda's book.

I also spoke with several people who confirmed to me that they had personally told Bro. Hyles about Dave Hyles' adultery in private conversations long before Dave Hyles was caught at Miller Road in 1984. This is important b/c I heard Bro. Hyles, with my own ears, repeatedly state that he had no prior knowledge of his son's sins prior to Dave being caught in 1984. Because these people told me privately the same thing again and again, independently corroborating each other, I now believe Bro. Hyles openly and repeatedly lied about what he knew about Dave Hyles and when he knew it. I also know Bro. Hyles lied about the door in his office that linked up to Jennie Nischik's office b/c I've talked to a number of people who, again independently, confirmed its existence during those years.

^This.

Are you the offspring of Torrent v.2 or did you forget your password?

I am a Hindu, it's reincarnation.  I came back as a computer virus.

 

[Fresh Air]

I learned that Vic N, was a liar, or a fake( liar) because I had watched him interact with Bro.Hyles, as if they were best friends, up til the day his wife caught him with a YOUNG lady.

This is an interesting point that few people ever discuss.

I've had a whole bunch more people tell me they saw him in a compromising situation then ever said that about Bro. Hyles. It is one of the reasons my opinion of him is so low.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

I find it interesting that Norefund now claims there was never a physical relationship, but that all the accusers are absolutely correct.

I said I don't know if the relationship was actually physical. As many take great delight in pointing out, there isn't any physical proof. The very act of intimacy usually leaves no proof anyway. I don't at all doubt the affair. I choose to use the word affair, as Jack Hyles own daughter has, because it doesn't matter if this was physical or just overly intimate. The relationship existed. I don't know how anyone can doubt it. Judy Nischik Johnson's account of the lovey dovey phone calls, the door, the refusal to remove the door, the refusal to even acknowledge that the door existed later after the refusal to remove the door, the firing and absolute skewering of George Godfrey after he pleaded for Jack Hyles to switch Jennie's office or remove the door to avoid the appearance of evil. Sheesh, people....what reasonable man with his ministry under suspicion would have not done the reasonable thing and show some propriety and make it visible that no improper relationship exists? It would have been very easy to address the rumor by moving Jennie's office. Yet, no such action was taken. Instead, skewer any "rumor monger" that dared look.

There is a huge difference in being very close acquaintance and physical intimacy.  Can anyone produce a picture of this mysterious door?  Did JN used to work in the waiting room or something?

I believe that Bro. Hyles sacrificed his family on the altar of ministry.

A man that would do that is capable of anything. Step up. Those of you who support JH...step up. Tell us how you are willing, for the good of your ministry, to sacrifice your family. Tell us how you think that was the right thing to do and how it saved America.

After reading Linda's 2nd chapter, I now think the relationship with Jennie was the Genesis of everything that went bad after that. It wasn't always the rabid environment it became. Why didn't JH take an action about Dave? Could it be because he might expose his father and Jennie?
[/quote]

Sacrificing family on the altar of ministry happens to many pastors, staff and even laymen.  It is not intentional.  Normally, the guilty party does not even realize it is happening until it is too late.  Then, it is all to obvious.