Should Christians confess their sins?

[Tarheel Baptist]

Maybe someone could answer these questions...

If 1 John 1:9 was written to Christians, if a Christian does not confess his sin does God not forgive his sin nor cleanse him from unrighteousness?

From God's perspective our sins are already paid for forensically, and we are eternally secure, but from our perspective, we are warned to not fall away by making sure we examining ourselves to see that we are in the faith.  It's an aspect of perserverance, and Scriptures warns the believer to be diligent to pursue holiness (without which no man will see God) and such admonitions regularly.

Here's Johnny Macs answer to your question (and he covers your erroneous dispensational view of the covenants as well)...

Well, some teachers increasingly popular, by the way today, claim that since we are already forgiven we must never ask God to forgive our sins. To do so, they tell us, is an expression of unbelief. It's an expression of doubt. And, in fact, you are calling God's Word into question. Why would you ever ask the Lord to forgive your sins when He has told you all your sins are already forgiven? And so they insist that 1 John 1:9 has nothing to do with Christians but it is an invitation to non-Christians. When I was writing the book on forgiveness, I used some illustration from the best-known contemporary proponents of this view, a man named Bob George who teaches on the radio, a popular author, he says that Christians who pray for forgiveness, quote: "Live in daily insecurity, doubting whether all their sins are forgiven." He and several others who teach similarly claim that the only way to enjoy your liberty in Christ is to forget your sin, forget about it all together and just embrace God's forgiveness as a fully accomplished reality because of the work of Christ and never again pay any attention to your sin.

Well there's enough truth, of course, in saying that all your sins are forgiven to confuse people with that. And, you know, that's a...that would be a great way to live, pay absolutely no attention to your sin as if it didn't exist. That's what historically and theologically is known as antinomianism, disregard for the law of God and your violation of it. Our sins are all forgiven, that's true. But to say therefore we should pay no attention to our sin and if we ever were to ask forgiveness we would be disavowing, doubting or denying the promise of God indicates that you may understand some of the truth but you don't understand all the truth. It is true that all our sins are forgiven but that's not all the truth. From the perspective of God's judgment throne, the sins of believers are forgiven...forgiven, even before they're committed and even if they're never confessed. Did you get that one? Before the judgment throne of God the sins of believers are forgiven even before they are committed and even if they are never confessed because God has said He has forgiven all our sins.

As a righteous judge, He has done that because He thoroughly and completely punished Jesus Christ for our sins. The price is paid in full and therefore God by justice cannot hold us guilty because the price has been paid.

But that's not all the truth in this matter and to say that God therefore pays absolutely no attention to our sin is ridiculous and to say that you are to pay no attention to your sin is also ridiculous and dangerous. To say that we can sin and completely ignore it and bear no guilt and no remorse and offer no confession and ask for no forgiveness will, believe me, bring down on such a person's head the discipline and the displeasure of God. The idea that a Christian should never pray a penitent prayer seeking forgiveness is unbiblical, it's heretical. So-called Christians who think they can sin and never need to seek their Father's forgiveness is seriously deceived, but that is an increasingly popular view.

Another advocate says, I'm quoting, "You've probably heard people pray like this, 'And, Lord, we ask You to forgive us for all our sins,' but why do forgiven Christians ask God's forgiveness? Do they not believe they are forgiven? If they believe they're forgiven then why do they ask for it repeatedly? Their prayers reveal unbelief." Same approach. A few paragraphs later he proposes what he thinks is a better way to pray. This is what he writes, 'How frequently do you hear someone pray and...Lord, I thank You that I stand before You a completely forgiven man, thank You that I am as spotless as the driven snow? How frequently do you hear people pray that?' he asks. Those words are rare but they thrill the heart of God because they demonstrate faith that a man believes God who says we are forgiven in Christ. There is no way you're going to cozy up to God if you feel He is increasingly upset with you. To feel secure you must believe that He does not hold one single sin against you."

Here is a bold statement he writes, "It is impossible for a Christian to ask God's forgiveness for a besetting sin the umpteenth time and then snuggle up to Him. He will feel like God's patience is being stretched to the limit," end quote. I don't even know what cozy up and snuggle up to God means. But what he is saying is, you're never going to enjoy the presence of God until you stop thinking about your sin. And if you really want to get close to God, pay no attention to your sin. How much sense does that make? That's a happy doctrine for an antinomian. That's a wonderful conclusion to come to if you don't want to pay any attention to your sin. Very convenient theology.

But don't be under any illusions. Just because you tolerate your sin doesn't mean God does. In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. Luke 11:4, Jesus said to the disciples, "Here's how you pray, 'Forgive us our sins.'"

You say, "Well what do people do with that verse?" Well, those who argue against praying for forgiveness say that that verse applies to the Old Covenant under Moses' law. They say that under the Old Covenant, under the law of Moses, under the legal dispensation of the past and maybe some future legal dispensations, some of them refer to, that prayer applied. In other words, when you ask for forgiveness you got it and the next time you asked you got it, and the next time you asked you got it. And that's how it was, they say, under the Old Covenant.

Guess what? That's never how it was under the Old Covenant...never. People were saved under the Old Covenant the same way they're saved under the New Covenant.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/62-8

When our fellowship with God is broken because of sin, what is the result of that broken fellowship?

As has been stated, chastening for the child of God.  And until we repent, the physical as well as spiritual effects are many, including sorrow and heaviness of heart, and loss of joy (Psalm 32 and 51).

It is great that you quote Johhny Mac, however he was quoting others who might hold a similar but much different position, so I am not sure his answer really applies.

However you say that a lack of confession will result in chastening, while TB says in might, could result in chastening. 

Is it lack of confession or lack of repentance that will keep the chastening hand of God on the believer?

Sorrow for sin, humility and repentance for sin to result in holiness or Christlikeness.  You add confession of sin as though it is the magic wand.  Because those conditions for forgiveness are nowhere present in 1 John 1:9.  I would argue because of the erroneous teaching of 1 John 1:9 it has encouraged just confession without humility and repentance.

Now remember that anything not of faith is sin.  If you Have done anything that wasn't of faith and did not confess it as sin...God is coming to get you.

Now if you want to keep the old covenant you are more than welcome to try.  But only one person has ever kept the old covenant and He died to establish the new covenant.

MacArthur is addressing the same issue the OP addresses, but it doesn't apply?
Po igurunt MacArthur...he just don't know how to interpret scripture!
Have I said Bwaaaaaaaaaah lately???
Maybe you could find a quote by Vic to support your disposition.

 

[Ransom]

The NT letters were addressed for the admonition and instruction of believers...but they also contained warnings to and instruction for sinners to be saved.

Yes, sinners who were present in the congregation when the letter was read.  Nothing in Paul's works suggests that they were to be taken outside and read to pagans in the public square.

But, the letters were addressed to believers....the false professors were not a part of the true church.

Nonetheless, do you deny that there were false professors present in (for example) the church that met in Philemon's house in Colossae?

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
Is it lack of confession or lack of repentance that will keep the chastening hand of God on the believer?[/quote]

Confession, or agreement with God, indicates that a change of mind/repentance has occurred.  Repentance is clearly a hallmark of the Christian life, and intuitively necessary attendant upon repentance.

Remember that anything not of faith is sin.  If you Have done anything that wasn't of faith and did not confess it as sin...God is coming to get you.

God isn't out to get His children, but discipline them.  If you think God is out to get His children then you may have a misunderstanding of the nature of the relationship, and how correction works.

He says that folks that confess their sins live in insecurity not knowing if their sins are forgiven, I don't believe that.

He says the only way to enjoy your liberty in Christ is to forget your sin, I don't believe that.

He says you should never pay attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

He says we ignore our sin with the remorse and guilt, I don't believe that.

He says their prayers reveal their unbelief, I don't believe that.

He says if you really want to get close to God pay no attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

Then again if TB knew my position he would not think that I held this radio preachersosition that I have never heard of.

WhatchootalkinboutWillis?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Maybe someone could answer these questions...

If 1 John 1:9 was written to Christians, if a Christian does not confess his sin does God not forgive his sin nor cleanse him from unrighteousness?

From God's perspective our sins are already paid for forensically, and we are eternally secure, but from our perspective, we are warned to not fall away by making sure we examining ourselves to see that we are in the faith.  It's an aspect of perserverance, and Scriptures warns the believer to be diligent to pursue holiness (without which no man will see God) and such admonitions regularly.

Here's Johnny Macs answer to your question (and he covers your erroneous dispensational view of the covenants as well)...

Well, some teachers increasingly popular, by the way today, claim that since we are already forgiven we must never ask God to forgive our sins. To do so, they tell us, is an expression of unbelief. It's an expression of doubt. And, in fact, you are calling God's Word into question. Why would you ever ask the Lord to forgive your sins when He has told you all your sins are already forgiven? And so they insist that 1 John 1:9 has nothing to do with Christians but it is an invitation to non-Christians. When I was writing the book on forgiveness, I used some illustration from the best-known contemporary proponents of this view, a man named Bob George who teaches on the radio, a popular author, he says that Christians who pray for forgiveness, quote: "Live in daily insecurity, doubting whether all their sins are forgiven." He and several others who teach similarly claim that the only way to enjoy your liberty in Christ is to forget your sin, forget about it all together and just embrace God's forgiveness as a fully accomplished reality because of the work of Christ and never again pay any attention to your sin.

Well there's enough truth, of course, in saying that all your sins are forgiven to confuse people with that. And, you know, that's a...that would be a great way to live, pay absolutely no attention to your sin as if it didn't exist. That's what historically and theologically is known as antinomianism, disregard for the law of God and your violation of it. Our sins are all forgiven, that's true. But to say therefore we should pay no attention to our sin and if we ever were to ask forgiveness we would be disavowing, doubting or denying the promise of God indicates that you may understand some of the truth but you don't understand all the truth. It is true that all our sins are forgiven but that's not all the truth. From the perspective of God's judgment throne, the sins of believers are forgiven...forgiven, even before they're committed and even if they're never confessed. Did you get that one? Before the judgment throne of God the sins of believers are forgiven even before they are committed and even if they are never confessed because God has said He has forgiven all our sins.

As a righteous judge, He has done that because He thoroughly and completely punished Jesus Christ for our sins. The price is paid in full and therefore God by justice cannot hold us guilty because the price has been paid.

But that's not all the truth in this matter and to say that God therefore pays absolutely no attention to our sin is ridiculous and to say that you are to pay no attention to your sin is also ridiculous and dangerous. To say that we can sin and completely ignore it and bear no guilt and no remorse and offer no confession and ask for no forgiveness will, believe me, bring down on such a person's head the discipline and the displeasure of God. The idea that a Christian should never pray a penitent prayer seeking forgiveness is unbiblical, it's heretical. So-called Christians who think they can sin and never need to seek their Father's forgiveness is seriously deceived, but that is an increasingly popular view.

Another advocate says, I'm quoting, "You've probably heard people pray like this, 'And, Lord, we ask You to forgive us for all our sins,' but why do forgiven Christians ask God's forgiveness? Do they not believe they are forgiven? If they believe they're forgiven then why do they ask for it repeatedly? Their prayers reveal unbelief." Same approach. A few paragraphs later he proposes what he thinks is a better way to pray. This is what he writes, 'How frequently do you hear someone pray and...Lord, I thank You that I stand before You a completely forgiven man, thank You that I am as spotless as the driven snow? How frequently do you hear people pray that?' he asks. Those words are rare but they thrill the heart of God because they demonstrate faith that a man believes God who says we are forgiven in Christ. There is no way you're going to cozy up to God if you feel He is increasingly upset with you. To feel secure you must believe that He does not hold one single sin against you."

Here is a bold statement he writes, "It is impossible for a Christian to ask God's forgiveness for a besetting sin the umpteenth time and then snuggle up to Him. He will feel like God's patience is being stretched to the limit," end quote. I don't even know what cozy up and snuggle up to God means. But what he is saying is, you're never going to enjoy the presence of God until you stop thinking about your sin. And if you really want to get close to God, pay no attention to your sin. How much sense does that make? That's a happy doctrine for an antinomian. That's a wonderful conclusion to come to if you don't want to pay any attention to your sin. Very convenient theology.

But don't be under any illusions. Just because you tolerate your sin doesn't mean God does. In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. Luke 11:4, Jesus said to the disciples, "Here's how you pray, 'Forgive us our sins.'"

You say, "Well what do people do with that verse?" Well, those who argue against praying for forgiveness say that that verse applies to the Old Covenant under Moses' law. They say that under the Old Covenant, under the law of Moses, under the legal dispensation of the past and maybe some future legal dispensations, some of them refer to, that prayer applied. In other words, when you ask for forgiveness you got it and the next time you asked you got it, and the next time you asked you got it. And that's how it was, they say, under the Old Covenant.

Guess what? That's never how it was under the Old Covenant...never. People were saved under the Old Covenant the same way they're saved under the New Covenant.

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/62-8

When our fellowship with God is broken because of sin, what is the result of that broken fellowship?

As has been stated, chastening for the child of God.  And until we repent, the physical as well as spiritual effects are many, including sorrow and heaviness of heart, and loss of joy (Psalm 32 and 51).

It is great that you quote Johhny Mac, however he was quoting others who might hold a similar but much different position, so I am not sure his answer really applies.

However you say that a lack of confession will result in chastening, while TB says in might, could result in chastening. 

Is it lack of confession or lack of repentance that will keep the chastening hand of God on the believer?

Sorrow for sin, humility and repentance for sin to result in holiness or Christlikeness.  You add confession of sin as though it is the magic wand.  Because those conditions for forgiveness are nowhere present in 1 John 1:9.  I would argue because of the erroneous teaching of 1 John 1:9 it has encouraged just confession without humility and repentance.

Now remember that anything not of faith is sin.  If you Have done anything that wasn't of faith and did not confess it as sin...God is coming to get you.

Now if you want to keep the old covenant you are more than welcome to try.  But only one person has ever kept the old covenant and He died to establish the new covenant.

MacArthur is addressing the same issue the OP addresses, but it doesn't apply?
Po igurunt MacArthur...he just don't know how to interpret scripture!
Have I said Bwaaaaaaaaaah lately???
Maybe you could find a quote by Vic to support your disposition.

He quotes Bob George...never heard of him until this article.

He says that folks that confess their sins live in insecurity not knowing if their sins are forgiven, I don't believe that.

He says the only way to enjoy your liberty in Christ is to forget your sin, I don't believe that.

He says you should never pay attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

He says we ignore our sin with the remorse and guilt, I don't believe that.

He says their prayers reveal their unbelief, I don't believe that.

He says if you really want to get close to God pay no attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

Then again if TB knew my position he would not think that I held this radio preachersosition that I have never heard of.

 

[Mathew Ward]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
Is it lack of confession or lack of repentance that will keep the chastening hand of God on the believer?

Confession, or agreement with God, indicates that a change of mind/repentance has occurred.  Repentance is clearly a hallmark of the Christian life, and intuitively necessary attendant upon repentance.

Remember that anything not of faith is sin.  If you Have done anything that wasn't of faith and did not confess it as sin...God is coming to get you.

God isn't out to get His children, but discipline them.  If you think God is out to get His children then you may have a misunderstanding of the nature of the relationship, and how correction works.

He says that folks that confess their sins live in insecurity not knowing if their sins are forgiven, I don't believe that.

He says the only way to enjoy your liberty in Christ is to forget your sin, I don't believe that.

He says you should never pay attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

He says we ignore our sin with the remorse and guilt, I don't believe that.

He says their prayers reveal their unbelief, I don't believe that.

He says if you really want to get close to God pay no attention to your sin, I don't believe that.

Then again if TB knew my position he would not think that I held this radio preachersosition that I have never heard of.

WhatchootalkinboutWillis?
[/quote]

The guy that Johnny Mac was quoting who was suppose to believe like me.  Thoses were things that he espoused that I don't.  There are probably more, but you get the idea that we don't believe alike. 

It would be like quoting an extreme Calvinist when discussing the Bible with a moderate Calvinist.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
The guy that Johnny Mac was quoting who was suppose to believe like me.  Thoses were things that he espoused that I don't.  There are probably more, but you get the idea that we don't believe alike. 

It would be like quoting an extreme Calvinist when discussing the Bible with a moderate Calvinist.
[/quote]

What does Mac affirm regarding I Jn 1:9 that you deny?

What is it about confession of sins (in the manner put forth by Tarheel, Macarthur, me, etc) that you think is different than asking God for forgiveness when you fail him daily/weekly?

 

[Mathew Ward]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
The guy that Johnny Mac was quoting who was suppose to believe like me.  Thoses were things that he espoused that I don't.  There are probably more, but you get the idea that we don't believe alike. 

It would be like quoting an extreme Calvinist when discussing the Bible with a moderate Calvinist.

What does Mac affirm regarding I Jn 1:9 that you deny?

What is it about confession of sins (in the manner put forth by Tarheel, Macarthur, me, etc) that you think is different than asking God for forgiveness when you fail him daily/weekly?
[/quote]

I re-read the article again and did not see what JM was affirming, just what was wrong with Bob George's view.

But to answer your question, I don't think it is Biblical.  It is part of performance based Christianity.  It goes like this...

After you get saved you have the flesh and the spiritual nature doing battle within you.  The one you feed the most is going to win.  It is based on my performance.

God said And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Galatians 5:24 KJV) So it isn't based on my performance. 

However when I am in this performance based Christianity and fail I then continue my performance by confessing my sins.

Besides 1 John 1:9 there are no other NT verses commanding Christians to ask forgiveness of sins that God has already forgiven me of.  And I don't believe the context of 1 John 1:9 is for the saved but the unsaved.

So the whole doctrine of being right with God is predicated upon me keeping short accounts with God or my performance and not on Christ.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

The NT letters were addressed for the admonition and instruction of believers...but they also contained warnings to and instruction for sinners to be saved.

Yes, sinners who were present in the congregation when the letter was read.  Nothing in Paul's works suggests that they were to be taken outside and read to pagans in the public square.

But, the letters were addressed to believers....the false professors were not a part of the true church.

Nonetheless, do you deny that there were false professors present in (for example) the church that met in Philemon's house in Colossae?

I'm sure there might have been false professors in all churches, but the epistles weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.....the epistles were written to believers for the admonition and instruction of believers.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]...
So the whole doctrine of being right with God is predicated upon me keeping short accounts with God or my performance and not on Christ.
[/quote]


The process of practical sanctification means that we are to grow in Holiness, which entails an awareness of personal sin (Paul's exclamation "oh wretched man that I am"), an acknowledgment (confession/agreement) of it, and a turning from it.  This process of repentance and forgiveness is part and parcel of sanctification, and always has been, and is in no way "performance based", lest the Puritans and scores of other serious Christians misapprehended the manner of growth in the Christian life.

Personally, I think all the stuff (bad theology and praxis) you absorbed in Fundyland for years has caused a sort of antinomian over-correction.

 

[Mathew Ward]

The NT letters were addressed for the admonition and instruction of believers...but they also contained warnings to and instruction for sinners to be saved.

Yes, sinners who were present in the congregation when the letter was read.  Nothing in Paul's works suggests that they were to be taken outside and read to pagans in the public square.

But, the letters were addressed to believers....the false professors were not a part of the true church.

Nonetheless, do you deny that there were false professors present in (for example) the church that met in Philemon's house in Colossae?

I'm sure there might have been false professors in all churches, but the epistles weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.....the epistles were written to believers for the admonition and instruction of believers.

So when one of these false professors wants to get saved, what epistles do you take them too since none of the verses in the Bible were specifically formulated with them in mind but were written only for believers?

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
So when one of these false professors wants to get saved, what epistles do you take them too since none of the verses in the Bible were specifically formulated with them in mind but were written only for believers?
[/quote]


You keep saying things that don't make any sense.  First it was that contritition and confession aren't necessary components of sanctification, and now you make the gargantuan leap of logic that mischaracterizes Tarheel's words to make them say that the gospel can't be found in the epistles/Bible???

 

[Mathew Ward]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
So when one of these false professors wants to get saved, what epistles do you take them too since none of the verses in the Bible were specifically formulated with them in mind but were written only for believers?

You keep saying things that don't make any sense.  First it was that contritition and confession aren't necessary components of sanctification, and now you make the gargantuan leap of logic that mischaracterizes Tarheel's words to make them say that the gospel can't be found in the epistles/Bible???
[/quote]

Where did I say contrition was not a necessary component of sanctification?

The issue is does a Christian who God forgave of all sin (past, present and future) and imputed the righteousness of Christ have to confess a sin to God and ask His forgiveness of the sin that God already or gave him of.

Here is what TB said "I'm sure there might have been false professors in all churches, but the epistles weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.....the epistles were written to believers for the admonition and instruction of believers"

So there are verses written in the Bible for the lost, but these verses weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.  Seems he wants to have it both ways for salvation (which is my position on 1 John 1:9) but not anything else.

As far as misrepresenting my view, the article you posted by Johnny Mac was way off, but hey that's ok.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]

Where did I say contrition was not a necessary component of sanctification?[/quote]

It seemed implied, at a minimum, otherwise, what is a Christian's response when he becomes contrite?

The issue is does a Christian who God forgave of all sin (past, present and future) and imputed the righteousness of Christ have to confess a sin to God and ask His forgiveness of the sin that God already or gave him of.

Do you deny the difference/distinction between a Christian's standing and state in Christ?

As far as misrepresenting my view, the article you posted by Johnny Mac was way off, but hey that's ok.

Mac used Bob George is an example of somebody who confuses the nature of a believer's eternal position in Christ with their state in Christ.  Bob George's motivation for that confusion is different than yours, but you also apparently think that regeneration and sanctification are the same thing, and they are categorically not.

 

[Mathew Ward]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]

Where did I say contrition was not a necessary component of sanctification?

It seemed implied, at a minimum, otherwise, what is a Christian's response when he becomes contrite?

The issue is does a Christian who God forgave of all sin (past, present and future) and imputed the righteousness of Christ have to confess a sin to God and ask His forgiveness of the sin that God already or gave him of.

Do you deny the difference/distinction between a Christian's standing and state in Christ?

As far as misrepresenting my view, the article you posted by Johnny Mac was way off, but hey that's ok.

Mac used Bob George is an example of somebody who confuses the nature of a believer's eternal position in Christ with their state in Christ.  Bob George's motivation for that confusion is different than yours, but you also apparently think that regeneration and sanctification are the same thing, and they are categorically not.
[/quote]

So when you are contrite the only thing you do is confess you sins?

Being contrite is also in the form that I am a low down, no good sinner that God had mercy on and forgave me of all my sins.  That should be our continual understanding of ourselves.  Our contrition should keep us humble, repentant and sorrowful that I sin against a Holy, Righteous God, who has graciously forgiven me of all my sin.

What do you mean by a Christians state and standing?

I don't think that regeneration and sanctification are the same thing, you just might be reading into my position.

Do you believe that you have 2 natures fighting inside of you or do you believe that your flesh was crucified with Christ?

 

[Vandal]

Joseph Prince teaches that the 1st chapter of 1 John was for the Gnostics in the Church in his books Destined to Reign, and Unmerited Favor. He teaches that 1 John 2:1 is when he started talking to the "Little Children" a.k.a the Church. Chapter one of 1 John was a call to believe on the Lord Jesus to the Gnostics...

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]
So when one of these false professors wants to get saved, what epistles do you take them too since none of the verses in the Bible were specifically formulated with them in mind but were written only for believers?

You keep saying things that don't make any sense.  First it was that contritition and confession aren't necessary components of sanctification, and now you make the gargantuan leap of logic that mischaracterizes Tarheel's words to make them say that the gospel can't be found in the epistles/Bible???

Where did I say contrition was not a necessary component of sanctification?

The issue is does a Christian who God forgave of all sin (past, present and future) and imputed the righteousness of Christ have to confess a sin to God and ask His forgiveness of the sin that God already or gave him of.

Here is what TB said "I'm sure there might have been false professors in all churches, but the epistles weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.....the epistles were written to believers for the admonition and instruction of believers"

So there are verses written in the Bible for the lost, but these verses weren't specifically formulated with them in mind.  Seems he wants to have it both ways for salvation (which is my position on 1 John 1:9) but not anything else.

As far as misrepresenting my view, the article you posted by Johnny Mac was way off, but hey that's ok.
[/quote]

The NT letters were addressed for the admonition and instruction of believers...but they also contained warnings to and instruction for sinners to be saved

But, the letters were addressed to believers....the false professors were not a part of the true church.

That's what I said, you just have selective memory Matt.
You've backed yourself into this corner and seem to be grasping at straws to defend the Biblically unsound position you've taken.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Joseph Prince teaches that the 1st chapter of 1 John was for the Gnostics in the Church in his books Destined to Reign, and Unmerited Favor. He teaches that 1 John 2:1 is when he started talking to the "Little Children" a.k.a the Church. Chapter one of 1 John was a call to believe on the Lord Jesus to the Gnostics...

From wikipedia...

Prince has been invited to preach at churches in Australia, London, Canada, Norway, Netherlands, South Africa and Indonesia.[4] Notably, he was invited to preach at the Grace & Favour Seminar at Hillsong Church[1][dead link] Sydney and Hillsong London[5] in 2006. In 2007 and 2008, he was invited to speak at the Hillsong Conferences in Sydney and London. In 2009, he was invited to speak, alongside Joel Osteen from Lakewood Church, at the 2 Days of Hope Conference held in Johannesburg, South Africa.[6]

This, and the fact that he has had money troubles, taking a salary of $50,000 a month, tells me all I need to know about this shiller of the gospel.

So when you are contrite the only thing you do is confess you sins?

Confess, as in "agree with God", in effect is another expression for the process of repentance.  Is there something wrong in your book with repentance?

The issue is does a Christian who God forgave of all sin (past, present and future) and imputed the righteousness of Christ have to confess a sin to God and ask His forgiveness of the sin that God already or gave him of.

Relational forgiveness is important, as I illustrated earlier with the notion of "leaving thy gift at the altar".  There are other NT ("epistles") evidence that making things right with a brother proves this point of relational forgiveness as well (James 5:16).



The "two nature" theory, or one nature theory, must have some definition before I can answer the question.  What do you mean by "nature"?


As far as state and standing, state has to do with your eternally justified condition that is guaranteed by Christ at the moment of regeneration, whereas standing is your place/position of Christian growth in the spectrum of sanctification.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]...
So the whole doctrine of being right with God is predicated upon me keeping short accounts with God or my performance and not on Christ.

The process of practical sanctification means that we are to grow in Holiness, which entails an awareness of personal sin (Paul's exclamation "oh wretched man that I am"), an acknowledgment (confession/agreement) of it, and a turning from it.  This process of repentance and forgiveness is part and parcel of sanctification, and always has been, and is in no way "performance based", lest the Puritans and scores of other serious Christians misapprehended the manner of growth in the Christian life.

Personally, I think all the stuff (bad theology and praxis) you absorbed in Fundyland for years has caused a sort of antinomian over-correction.
[/quote]

You are attempting to actually answer his questions, but he will come up with another and another.
He wanted NT scriptures, then a scripture from Paul, the Vic wanted a scripture Paul wrote while standing on one foot in a driving rainstorm.

When someone nit picks the details of your terms, they're just whistling past the graveyard....

And how many angels can dance together on the tip of a pin? 

 

[Mathew Ward]

Confess, as in "agree with God", in effect is another expression for the process of repentance.  Is there something wrong in your book with repentance?


Relational forgiveness is important, as I illustrated earlier with the notion of "leaving thy gift at the altar".  There are other NT ("epistles") evidence that making things right with a brother proves this point of relational forgiveness as well (James 5:16).


The "two nature" theory, or one nature theory, must have some definition before I can answer the question.  What do you mean by "nature"?


As far as state and standing, state has to do with your eternally justified condition that is guaranteed by Christ at the moment of regeneration, whereas standing is your place/position of Christian growth in the spectrum of sanctification.

Nothing wrong with repentance.  I think we change our minds which results in a change of action as we grow in Christ.

I have stated before in this discussion (it could be on the other forum) that we are told to confess our faults to one another.  Those who we have hurt we have a Biblical mandate to secure their forgiveness.  However with God He has assured us of His forgiveness to us at salvation, so I don't think you can use this example and apply it to God.

We agree on state and standing.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Maybe someone could answer these questions...

If 1 John 1:9 was written to Christians, if a Christian does not confess his sin does God not forgive his sin nor cleanse him from unrighteousness?

When our fellowship with God is broken because of sin, what is the result of that broken fellowship?

Jesus said in the model prayer that if we should forgive or we wouldn't be forgiven.....
Do you discount His words and therefore the model prayer was a model for thr Old Covenant, which was ending!
Please.

And John, in chapter 2, says he writes that they sin not?
That lost people sin not?

If any man sin, he has an advocate with the Father.

So if someone hasn't forgiven his brother and God won't forgive his sin does that mean he will send them to hell because they have unforgiven sin?

Because in your position of mixing the 2 covenants your sin will separate you from God according to Isaiah 59:2, but you don't say what that means to the Christian today.

But to make sure I understand your position at salvation God forgives all sin past, present and future.  But in the future if you sin and don't confess it or if you refuse to forgive your brother God will not forgive your sin that he has already forgiven you of?  Is that correct?

I have asked this repeatedly of you in regards to 1 John 1:9 but you won't, can't or refuse to answer.

It's because, in the context of our debate, it's a silly question.
I have stated many times, it's a fellowship issue....all sins were covered in the atonement.
Try to keep up.....