Should Christians confess their sins?

[Tarheel Baptist]

A thread on the 666 brought this subject to my attention.

I believe that Scripture teaches Christ paid our sin debt through His Atoning work.
Judicially, our sins are forgiven....past, present and future sins.....God has laid on Christ the iniquity of us all. This is the basis of our eternal security.

I also believe that when we, Christians, sin it can affect our fellowship with the Father.
1John 1:9 speaks to this issue.
Hebrews 12 says that whom the Lord loves, He chastens....every son....if we are without chastening, we are bastards.....

Do you believe there is judicial forgiveness for sin.....the penalty and punishment of sin and a 'parental forgiveness' of sins...that has nothing to do with penalty or punishment of sin, but everything to do with our fellowship with the Father?

Where and / or why is this wrong?

I don't think its that simple.  I don't buy the second kind of forgiveness, parental, like it merely affects our relationship.  I am reading the book The Race Set Before Us by Arnel Canedy and Thomas Schreiner. They lay out a good case, but it is not easy to present.

How complicated can it be?
What do Christians need to do with sin in their lives?
What causes a Christian to be chastened?
What do you do as a father when your children disobey you?

I'm not familiar with that book or the authors, could you post a link to a review, maybe?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Race-Set-Before-Perseverance/dp/0830815554

They believe that your sins are forigven as you confess. They would say that you can't just say that confession is evidence that you are a Genuine Christian, because that is not what the text says.  But they would also say that it doesn't say that a Christian who does not confess loses his salvation or something like that. I am not done with the book, and I am right in the middle of their explanation of how sanctification works.  It is a good book, in my opinion.


here is one review:

By Dr. Marc Axelrod "PM" (Potter, Wi USA)      This review is from: The Race Set Before Us: A Biblical Theology of Perseverance & Assurance (Paperback)
Schreiner's little book The Race Set Before Us is based on his lectures and it is also a condensation of his larger book on the subject. It's very pastoral and hands on, very practical, and very honest. He takes the tack that the warnings in Hebrews and other New Testament texts are legitimate warnings for believers to shape up or be shipped out, so to speak. Yet he also contends that true believers in Christ will eventually heed these warnings, and that these are the very texts that God uses to encourage believers to persevere.

Those who do fall away were not true believers to begin with, based on Schreiner's reading of 1 John 2:18-19 and Matthew 7:21-23

The book is written in a way where people will be encouraged and will understand the doctrine of security or perseverance. Thumbs up!

Thanks for the info.

 

[OZZY]

Re​

I believe that when one is saved by grace thru faith in the finished work of Christ that his sin debt is paid in full....God no longer imputes sin to his account. His sin is never remembered against him again, ever!
Psalm 32:1-2
"Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,and in whose spirit there is no deceit".

I believe that when a Christian sins, that it can and does affect his fellowship with the father.....not his standing, his fellowship. I think sin in a Christians life can result in his being chastened...corrected by his heavenly Father.
Psalm 32:3-4
For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer

I believe that if we deal with sins in our lives as Christians, we can sometimes avoid such discipline, correction, chastening. (Heb 12)
I think that's what Paul had in mind when he rebuked the Corinthians over the Lord's Table...he told them to "examine themselves"...if they would "judge themselves, they would not be judged"!
(What are they examining themselves for...ticks?)

1 John 1:9
"If WE confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins...."
Psalm 32:5
"I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said,

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Re​

I believe that when one is saved by grace thru faith in the finished work of Christ that his sin debt is paid in full....God no longer imputes sin to his account. His sin is never remembered against him again, ever!
Psalm 32:1-2
"Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,and in whose spirit there is no deceit".

I believe that when a Christian sins, that it can and does affect his fellowship with the father.....not his standing, his fellowship. I think sin in a Christians life can result in his being chastened...corrected by his heavenly Father.
Psalm 32:3-4
For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer

I believe that if we deal with sins in our lives as Christians, we can sometimes avoid such discipline, correction, chastening. (Heb 12)
I think that's what Paul had in mind when he rebuked the Corinthians over the Lord's Table...he told them to "examine themselves"...if they would "judge themselves, they would not be judged"!
(What are they examining themselves for...ticks?)

1 John 1:9
"If WE confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins...."
Psalm 32:5
"I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said,

 

[OZZY]

Re​

I believe that when one is saved by grace thru faith in the finished work of Christ that his sin debt is paid in full....God no longer imputes sin to his account. His sin is never remembered against him again, ever!
Psalm 32:1-2
"Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,and in whose spirit there is no deceit".

I believe that when a Christian sins, that it can and does affect his fellowship with the father.....not his standing, his fellowship. I think sin in a Christians life can result in his being chastened...corrected by his heavenly Father.
Psalm 32:3-4
For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer

I believe that if we deal with sins in our lives as Christians, we can sometimes avoid such discipline, correction, chastening. (Heb 12)
I think that's what Paul had in mind when he rebuked the Corinthians over the Lord's Table...he told them to "examine themselves"...if they would "judge themselves, they would not be judged"!
(What are they examining themselves for...ticks?)

1 John 1:9
"If WE confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins...."
Psalm 32:5
"I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said,

 

[jimmudcatgrant]

A thread on the 666 brought this subject to my attention.

I believe that Scripture teaches Christ paid our sin debt through His Atoning work.
Judicially, our sins are forgiven....past, present and future sins.....God has laid on Christ the iniquity of us all. This is the basis of our eternal security.

I also believe that when we, Christians, sin it can affect our fellowship with the Father.
1John 1:9 speaks to this issue.
Hebrews 12 says that whom the Lord loves, He chastens....every son....if we are without chastening, we are bastards.....

Do you believe there is judicial forgiveness for sin.....the penalty and punishment of sin and a 'parental forgiveness' of sins...that has nothing to do with penalty or punishment of sin, but everything to do with our fellowship with the Father?

Where and / or why is this wrong?

I think Jesus gave us an example of both in the footwashing episode.  It seems to be a spiritual application since Jesus said that one of them (Judas) was not clean.

John 13:6-11 (NASB)
6 So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
8 Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
9 Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
10 Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."
11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

A thread on the 666 brought this subject to my attention.

I believe that Scripture teaches Christ paid our sin debt through His Atoning work.
Judicially, our sins are forgiven....past, present and future sins.....God has laid on Christ the iniquity of us all. This is the basis of our eternal security.

I also believe that when we, Christians, sin it can affect our fellowship with the Father.
1John 1:9 speaks to this issue.
Hebrews 12 says that whom the Lord loves, He chastens....every son....if we are without chastening, we are bastards.....

Do you believe there is judicial forgiveness for sin.....the penalty and punishment of sin and a 'parental forgiveness' of sins...that has nothing to do with penalty or punishment of sin, but everything to do with our fellowship with the Father?

Where and / or why is this wrong?

I think Jesus gave us an example of both in the footwashing episode.  It seems to be a spiritual application since Jesus said that one of them (Judas) was not clean.

John 13:6-11 (NASB)
6 So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
8 Peter *said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
9 Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
10 Jesus *said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you."
11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, "Not all of you are clean."

And you point out an excellent example.
There are, to my knowledge, three posters on the 666, one posts here as well, who disagree....but they have no evidence except to ask for more evidence for the Biblical position!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I might have been the first time I realized it, when he made his first post some years ago.....
I was surprised at the ignorance of some others....

So when a believer questions what he has been taught and goes to the Scriptures to prove the truth or the error of it, this is called ignorance by you?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11 KJV)

"The lynchpin of Satan's deception is that you stubbornly believe you are right; the more dogmatic, the more easily deceived. The person who's open to accepting they're wrong is very hard to lead down the path of spiritual falsehood."  Chris Brown

Let's recite the model prayer in unison....no wait....you can't do that......

 

[Mathew Ward]

Are there any verses in the NT that teach all our sins are forgiven?

Plenty...almost too many to list

Are there any verses in the NT that teach we must confess our sins to God or it will adversely affect our fellowship with Him?

Not one.

 

[T-Bone]

To answer the thread title question is easy...of course we should confess our sins, 1 John 1:9 clearly teaches us to do so.  John wrote his Epistle to believers not to lost people...in context of the letter surely we should confess our sins.  Simple really to confess speaks of coming into agreement with God about our sin (it does not mean telling God anything He doesn't already know) and to repent or turn from our sin.

 

[Mathew Ward]

To answer the thread title question is easy...of course we should confess our sins, 1 John 1:9 clearly teaches us to do so.  John wrote his Epistle to believers not to lost people...in context of the letter surely we should confess our sins.  Simple really to confess speaks of coming into agreement with God about our sin (it does not mean telling God anything He doesn't already know) and to repent or turn from our sin.

The context of 1 John 1:9 is to those in the church who were Gnostic.  The Gnostics denied that Jesus came in the flesh or that they had sin.  To deny that Christ came in the flesh or that they did not have sin was to place them in darkness.

When we came to Christ for salvation and He forgave ALL of our sin we came into agreement about our sin.

So besides 1 John 1:9 that I take as positional, are there any NT verses that teach us to confess our sins?  If we don't confess them where are the verses that teach they will adversley affect our fellowship with Him?

 

[ALAYMAN]

Psa 32:1  A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psa 32:3  When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psa 32:4  For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.


Pro 28:13  He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Aside from those verses numerous Scriptures on repentance convey the proper notion of a change of mind that results in a change in attitude and action.  Chastening brings about such a change.  Godly sorrow leads to repentance.  Godly sorrow comes from conviction of sin.  The antithesis is grieving the Holy Spirit, which obviously is a picture of God's dissatisaction with our persistent wrong-headed sinful behavior.

 

[T-Bone]

To answer the thread title question is easy...of course we should confess our sins, 1 John 1:9 clearly teaches us to do so.  John wrote his Epistle to believers not to lost people...in context of the letter surely we should confess our sins.  Simple really to confess speaks of coming into agreement with God about our sin (it does not mean telling God anything He doesn't already know) and to repent or turn from our sin.

The context of 1 John 1:9 is to those in the church who were Gnostic.  The Gnostics denied that Jesus came in the flesh or that they had sin.  To deny that Christ came in the flesh or that they did not have sin was to place them in darkness.

When we came to Christ for salvation and He forgave ALL of our sin we came into agreement about our sin.

So besides 1 John 1:9 that I take as positional, are there any NT verses that teach us to confess our sins?  If we don't confess them where are the verses that teach they will adversley affect our fellowship with Him?

Actually 1 John was not written to the Gnostics who were lost but in the church...but it was written to the church as they had to deal with the gnostics and their doctrine.  John begins the letter and throughout the letter by saying he is speaking to the brethren, not the lost gnostics that have infiltrated the church. 

Do you hold the same position about the verses in the text where people would deny that they have sinned...is he talking to just the gnostics or to believers also...and if not to believers do you believe that believers sin?

1 John is clear enough to me...it is to believers, not to apostate gnostics...and we are told to confess our sin,  even though as you state correctly all our sin is and has been forgiven...your approach though leads to a callouse heart for the believer and the ability to sin with impunity, and I know that is not what you believe.  The pastor's who have fallen not only need to confess their sinfulness to God but also to the church that they have harmed.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Psa 32:1  A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2  Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psa 32:3  When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
Psa 32:4  For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.


Pro 28:13  He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Aside from those verses numerous Scriptures on repentance convey the proper notion of a change of mind that results in a change in attitude and action.  Chastening brings about such a change.  Godly sorrow leads to repentance.  Godly sorrow comes from conviction of sin.  The antithesis is grieving the Holy Spirit, which obviously is a picture of God's dissatisaction with our persistent wrong-headed sinful behavior.

In the OT where their past, present and future sins were not forgiven they had a yearly sacrifice that covered their sins.  If they sinned they had to confess them.

Nowhere in the NT is that OT practice commanded.  Especially in the NT when all my sins are forgiven when I trusted Christ.

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=Mathew Ward]

In the OT where their past, present and future sins were not forgiven they had a yearly sacrifice that covered their sins.  If they sinned they had to confess them.[/quote]

So you think that the OT saints didn't have eternal security?  And you don't think that we have to confess sins?

They confessed their sins on the same basis that we do, so that we agree with God that our behavior is an offense and that there needs to be repentance from such.

Nowhere in the NT is that OT practice commanded.  Especially in the NT when all my sins are forgiven when I trusted Christ.

Your sins were forgiven by God in some sense before the foundations of the world.  But in time and space your sanctification is dependent upon growth in Christ, which means a constant turning from sin (repentance).  Repentance occurs through conviction by the Spirit.  It brings godly sorrow, and agreement (confession) with God that our behavior is not what it ought to be.

II Cor 6:14 is a perfect illustration of the principle.  What fellowship hath Christ with Belial, darkness with light, unrighteousness with God?  Fellowship is on the basis of walking in the Spirit, and consequently obedience to and worship of Christ.  When we sin we are not fellowshipping, and we are not worshipping.  This can grieve the Spirit if done in a prolonged manner.  How can the Spirit be grieved and in felloship with our spirit at the same time?

 

[Ransom]

Do you believe there is judicial forgiveness for sin . . . that has nothing to do with penalty or punishment of sin

Then in what sense is it "judicial"?

 

[Mathew Ward]

Actually 1 John was not written to the Gnostics who were lost but in the church...but it was written to the church as they had to deal with the gnostics and their doctrine.  John begins the letter and throughout the letter by saying he is speaking to the brethren, not the lost gnostics that have infiltrated the church. 

Do you hold the same position about the verses in the text where people would deny that they have sinned...is he talking to just the gnostics or to believers also...and if not to believers do you believe that believers sin?

1 John is clear enough to me...it is to believers, not to apostate gnostics...and we are told to confess our sin,  even though as you state correctly all our sin is and has been forgiven...your approach though leads to a callouse heart for the believer and the ability to sin with impunity, and I know that is not what you believe.  The pastor's who have fallen not only need to confess their sinfulness to God but also to the church that they have harmed.

Yes it is written to believers who are dealing with these folks in the church.  But if it was written to only believers...

So which brethren were walking in darkness(v6)?

Which brethren had no sin and the truth was not in them (v8)?

Or were these the Gnostics who were denying that Christ came in the flesh(v1-4) that we're in the church?

Of course I believe that believers sin.  But they are not instructed to confess their sins to God that were already forgiven.  Since you hold to that doctrine, where else in the NT are we instructed to do so?

Either a person is saved and in the light and in fellowship with God or he is lost and in darkness and out of fellowship with God.  1 John 1 deals with light and darkness.

Actually since all my sin has been forgiven and my flesh has been crucified with Christ when I sin now it doesn't make my heart callouse but I realize how gracious and loving and caring God is that He has forgiven me of all my sin.  It humbles me.  But if God has forgiven me of all my sin, why would I have to continually ask Him to forgive me of those sins that He has already forgiven me of?

The only forgiveness a Christian is instructed to seek after iin the NT is to those he has hurt.  Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16 KJV)

The only other folks in the NT that confess their sins are those who come to Christ for salvation.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Your sins were forgiven by God in some sense before the foundations of the world.  But in time and space your sanctification is dependent upon growth in Christ, which means a constant turning from sin (repentance).  Repentance occurs through conviction by the Spirit.  It brings godly sorrow, and agreement (confession) with God that our behavior is not what it ought to be.

II Cor 6:14 is a perfect illustration of the principle.  What fellowship hath Christ with Belial, darkness with light, unrighteousness with God?  Fellowship is on the basis of walking in the Spirit, and consequently obedience to and worship of Christ.  When we sin we are not fellowshipping, and we are not worshipping.  This can grieve the Spirit if done in a prolonged manner.  How can the Spirit be grieved and in felloship with our spirit at the same time?

Is sanctification a battle between my sin nature and my Spiritual nature and the one that I feed the most wins the battle?

As far as fellowship is concerned in the NT, you are either in Christ and in fellowship with Him(in the light) or you are not in Christ and have no fellowship with Him (in darkness).  Fellowship is based on salvation. 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

1 John was written to Christians....perhaps he was referencing the Gnostics, but the we refers to Christians.
The tense of confess in the Greek is a continuing action.
Chapter two continues in the same vein....if any man sin, he has an advocate with the Father....

It takes some really creative hermeneutics to twist what John said into he really didn't mean what he said....

 

[Mathew Ward]

The we in verse 6 are Christians?

The we in verse 8 are Christians?

The we in verse 10 are Christians?

If he is the propitiation for our sins (2:2) and he is writing because their sins are forgiven (2:12) why do they need to confess their sins?

 

[Mathew Ward]

If 1 John 1:9 was written to Christians as you assert, if a Christian does not confess his sin does God not forgive nor cleanse him from unrighteousness?

If 1 John 1:9 was written to unbelievers, if they come to Christ confessing their sin Christ will forgive them and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.  If they walk in darkness and say they have no sin and don't ask for forgiveness then God won't forgive him.

It seems that the hermenutics supports the second senerio above.  But since this is such a vital doctrine in the NT where are all the other references commanding a Christian to confess their sins or it will adversely affect their fellowship with God?

Or I could believe that all my sins were paid for by Christ when he died on the cross.

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (Romans 4:7, 8 KJV)

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV)

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Peter 2:24 KJV)

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18 KJV)

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. (Hebrews 10:1-18 KJV)

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7 KJV)

Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Romans 4:23-25 KJV)

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV)

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (Ephesians 1:7 KJV)

Not an exhaustive list, but you guys get the point.