Schaap's sentencing delayed

  • Thread starter Thread starter Torrent v.2
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qwerty said:
Just me said:
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/18835553-537/preacher-sex-with-17-year-old-was-lords-work.html
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I can see him saying all that garbage, sounds just like him.  All of what he said pretty much coincides with some of the philosophy he has been spewing.  Once you start down that slippery slope, it is easy to justify other sins as being righteous and appropriate.
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My thoughts exactly. I can hear him saying this kind of crap and trying to convince someone that blue was actually green if the mog said so.
 
No surprise but his rank narcissism is all over the place.  "If you should go back to what you were it would tear my soul apart."  What about her soul Jack?  What a punk.
 
It's extremely hard for me to read thru this. This is far more than a simple transgression. This is pure evil. This guy was on the road to being another Jim Jones.
 
deertrack, What's your opinion on the 23 pages? I only got to page 4 .....Was his secretary brain dead? I also have questions about where was Cindy?
 
Just me said:
More court documents on the scumbag Schaap.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-jack-schaap-sentencing-memorandum-20130314,0,4467793.htmlpage
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Thanks for posting. I am reading it.

At one point, he says these things:

I've never met anyone like you.

You BFF, Pastor.

Really? Your BFF?

And then he says in a hand written letter.

"God must trust you very much. He gave you the work of ministering to his servant-just like the angel ministered to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane."

Wow, what an egomaniac.  While sexually abusing a teenager, he compares himself to Jesus.
 
aleshanee said:
reading those documents..  i realized i wasn;t just reading about someone who made a foolish mistake.... i was reading about a person who spent the majority of his life believing he was better than everybody else... . that he deserved better than what others had...  and that he had a right to lie to them and take what they had from them if he wanted to.... ... as if he thought he was equal to God but not required to be as righteous.. .  ...  that;s the very kind of people who make up the majority of a prison population...  and after what i read in that document he has more than proved he deserves to keep them company.... for a very long time... . 

he doesn;t know it yet...    because.. even though the tables have turned...  his lies have been discovered... and the true depravity of his soul is being displayed for all to see in the court documents.. .. he;s still in the limelight.. ..  and it;s always been the limelight that he loved best... ... even now... ..  but his chance for an education is coming ... ..  the day all the drama of the courtrooms and legal proceedings come to an end...  when his sentence is handed down and he;s driven to a state prison... escorted to a cell.. walks in alone... and hears the door slam and lock behind him... ... that;s when it will have a chance to sink in.. when it;s not all about him anymore.. .. .. the day he becomes a nobody.... just another inmate wearing state issued drab with a number on it... nobody left to talk or write about him... and no way to read or hear about it if they are... .  .

conventional wisdom says the longer he has to think about all that, the better chance he will have of learning from it... .  but whether he learns anything from it or not.. or whether he actually comes to know the God he has been pretending to speak for all these years or not.. ... .  society will be a safer place the longer he and others like him stay there.. .. locked behind the bars..... and kept away from the people he made it his business to harm....  .. . .. and that is what;s most important... ... if he comes away some day realizing he is no better than the rest of us then so much the better.. .. ...  but it;s not something i would bank on... .. or take chances with... .. 
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Very perceptive Al. Ever since I have known him he has walked around with at least 4 or 6 young preacher boys around him just hanging on his every word. I don't think I would be able to handle it either. He has been worshiped and I think he came to love it. This man could probably have run United Airlines or US Steel but there is no other place on earth where he would have had the worship and adulation as an ifb church. And IMO this was started and encouraged by Jack Hyles.  Very sad indeed.
 
From the full text, the Prosecutor is shooting for 10 years, then ten years under supervised release and that he be required to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.

I think that will do.
 
BALAAM said:
aleshanee said:
reading those documents..  i realized i wasn;t just reading about someone who made a foolish mistake.... i was reading about a person who spent the majority of his life believing he was better than everybody else... . that he deserved better than what others had...  and that he had a right to lie to them and take what they had from them if he wanted to.... ... as if he thought he was equal to God but not required to be as righteous.. .  ...  that;s the very kind of people who make up the majority of a prison population...  and after what i read in that document he has more than proved he deserves to keep them company.... for a very long time... . 

he doesn;t know it yet...    because.. even though the tables have turned...  his lies have been discovered... and the true depravity of his soul is being displayed for all to see in the court documents.. .. he;s still in the limelight.. ..  and it;s always been the limelight that he loved best... ... even now... ..  but his chance for an education is coming ... ..  the day all the drama of the courtrooms and legal proceedings come to an end...  when his sentence is handed down and he;s driven to a state prison... escorted to a cell.. walks in alone... and hears the door slam and lock behind him... ... that;s when it will have a chance to sink in.. when it;s not all about him anymore.. .. .. the day he becomes a nobody.... just another inmate wearing state issued drab with a number on it... nobody left to talk or write about him... and no way to read or hear about it if they are... .  .

conventional wisdom says the longer he has to think about all that, the better chance he will have of learning from it... .  but whether he learns anything from it or not.. or whether he actually comes to know the God he has been pretending to speak for all these years or not.. ... .  society will be a safer place the longer he and others like him stay there.. .. locked behind the bars..... and kept away from the people he made it his business to harm....  .. . .. and that is what;s most important... ... if he comes away some day realizing he is no better than the rest of us then so much the better.. .. ...  but it;s not something i would bank on... .. or take chances with... .. 
Click to expand...

Very perceptive Al. Ever since I have known him he has walked around with at least 4 or 6 young preacher boys around him just hanging on his every word. I don't think I would be able to handle it either. He has been worshiped and I think he came to love it. This man could probably have run United Airlines or US Steel but there is no other place on earth where he would have had the worship and adulation as an ifb church. And IMO this was started and encouraged by Jack Hyles.  Very sad indeed.
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Balaam, you have knowledge and insight about Schaap that I admittedly lack, but from the outside looking in, I can't imagine anyone really taking him seriously, such less worshipping him. He comes across as a caricature of everything that's wrong with a pastor. What am I missing?
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Balaam, you have knowledge and insight about Schaap that I admittedly lack, but from the outside looking in, I can't imagine anyone really taking him seriously, such less worshipping him. He comes across as a caricature of everything that's wrong with a pastor. What am I missing?
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Balaam knew him better than I, but I have some knowledge of the culture. You are missing what he built. He took a church and initially doubled it, greatly expanded its vision, built a 7400 seat auditorium, and did it all in as flashy a manner as possible. When the culture of your Bible college/church is increasingly pragmatic, the reason to listen/sit at his feet is what he built. It is the proof he was right with God; it is the proof he was a profound preacher; it is the proof he was JH amped to the next level; etc. etc. etc.

...and then he cultivated that, nurturing his followers concept of his greatness carefully, while dazzling them with personality, showmanship, and numbers. At some point over the last few years people began to see through his lack of substance and leave FBCH for churches where they actually got fed/pastored. He was having increasing trouble keeping the plates spinning. The the hubris of his proud arrogance combined with his increasingly weird sexualized theology brought him crashing down.

There, but for the grace of God...
 
Tom Brennan said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Balaam, you have knowledge and insight about Schaap that I admittedly lack, but from the outside looking in, I can't imagine anyone really taking him seriously, such less worshipping him. He comes across as a caricature of everything that's wrong with a pastor. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Balaam knew him better than I, but I have some knowledge of the culture. You are missing what he built. He took a church and initially doubled it, greatly expanded its vision, built a 7400 seat auditorium, and did it all in as flashy a manner as possible. When the culture of your Bible college/church is increasingly pragmatic, the reason to listen/sit at his feet is what he built. It is the proof he was right with God; it is the proof he was a profound preacher; it is the proof he was JH amped to the next level; etc. etc. etc.

...and then he cultivated that, nurturing his followers concept of his greatness carefully, while dazzling them with personality, showmanship, and numbers. At some point over the last few years people began to see through his lack of substance and leave FBCH for churches where they actually got fed/pastored. He was having increasing trouble keeping the plates spinning. The the hubris of his proud arrogance combined with his increasingly weird sexualized theology brought him crashing down.

There, but for the grace of God...
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I agree...except for the numbers part.  It felt that the on-site numbers hardly moved as well as the college enrollment.  It felt like it was growing because of all the new staff and ministries, but the new building seemed like there was a lot of vacant seats(and sections).
 
Thanks for posting the court docs.  I was shocked and amazed.  I had been under the impression that he was suffering from his depression again which this time got the better of him.  I knew he had some pretty serious pride issues, but then again, most of the leadership and even membership of Hammond does.  I knew some of his doctrine was goofy, but never followed enough to see how much.

Court docs show a definite pattern of coercing this girl.  Sad.  So sad.  You see just how confused his mind had become as he encourages Bible reading and getting close to God, while..... (not even gonna type it). 

I recall when I was in HB the high school girls swooning over him, and he was just a Bible teacher then.  It wasn't just "I learned a life changing lesson from his sermon" it was something different that many guys felt was odd.  I can full well imagine the amount of emotional control he had over his victim.  I hurt for her and her family.

What is with Eddie telling her and her family it is not safe for them to return to the school/church?  Is he warning or threatening or removing the reminder or all three?  So much for a church wanting to help people.  I wonder if the church is offering to help with the counseling expenses, or sending the family off to a Hawaiian vacation like they did for Eddie?
 
Torrent v.2 said:
From the full text, the Prosecutor is shooting for 10 years, then ten years under supervised release and that he be required to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.

I think that will do.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think a far worse punishment would be for him to have to listen to his own sermons every day for the next ten years. :o
 
Aleshanee, I used to say that you were wise beyond your years...but that was a few years back. :).

Rather the church leadership should have invited that family, assuming the victim was known, to the front of the church as an act of contrition, apologized with great humility and sincerity and then preached a sermon that would have brought Godly shame to anyone that would have said a negative word about the family or made them feel unwelcome.

 
Tarheel Baptist said:
BALAAM said:
aleshanee said:
reading those documents..  i realized i wasn;t just reading about someone who made a foolish mistake.... i was reading about a person who spent the majority of his life believing he was better than everybody else... . that he deserved better than what others had...  and that he had a right to lie to them and take what they had from them if he wanted to.... ... as if he thought he was equal to God but not required to be as righteous.. .  ...  that;s the very kind of people who make up the majority of a prison population...  and after what i read in that document he has more than proved he deserves to keep them company.... for a very long time... . 

he doesn;t know it yet...    because.. even though the tables have turned...  his lies have been discovered... and the true depravity of his soul is being displayed for all to see in the court documents.. .. he;s still in the limelight.. ..  and it;s always been the limelight that he loved best... ... even now... ..  but his chance for an education is coming ... ..  the day all the drama of the courtrooms and legal proceedings come to an end...  when his sentence is handed down and he;s driven to a state prison... escorted to a cell.. walks in alone... and hears the door slam and lock behind him... ... that;s when it will have a chance to sink in.. when it;s not all about him anymore.. .. .. the day he becomes a nobody.... just another inmate wearing state issued drab with a number on it... nobody left to talk or write about him... and no way to read or hear about it if they are... .  .

conventional wisdom says the longer he has to think about all that, the better chance he will have of learning from it... .  but whether he learns anything from it or not.. or whether he actually comes to know the God he has been pretending to speak for all these years or not.. ... .  society will be a safer place the longer he and others like him stay there.. .. locked behind the bars..... and kept away from the people he made it his business to harm....  .. . .. and that is what;s most important... ... if he comes away some day realizing he is no better than the rest of us then so much the better.. .. ...  but it;s not something i would bank on... .. or take chances with... .. 
Click to expand...

Very perceptive Al. Ever since I have known him he has walked around with at least 4 or 6 young preacher boys around him just hanging on his every word. I don't think I would be able to handle it either. He has been worshiped and I think he came to love it. This man could probably have run United Airlines or US Steel but there is no other place on earth where he would have had the worship and adulation as an ifb church. And IMO this was started and encouraged by Jack Hyles.  Very sad indeed.
Click to expand...

Balaam, you have knowledge and insight about Schaap that I admittedly lack, but from the outside looking in, I can't imagine anyone really taking him seriously, such less worshipping him. He comes across as a caricature of everything that's wrong with a pastor. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I really don't understand either. What is it that gives a person charisma or personal magnetism? Schaap definitely had (has) it, was extremely smart, extremely passionate, and extremely driven. All excellent traits but like the book says about ambition; It is a wonderful servant but a terrible master.

The hardest thing for me to understand is that if you listened to his sermons the last couple of years became increasingly more vulgar and sexual in content. He said several times that if the teenagers in fbch could get to know him that they would never lose one of them. He told parents, "You need to buy into me". He began preaching sermons that were always over an hour in length and seemed to have the idea that he held the keys to life and if people could only spend more time with him they would be allright. It all went to his head. IMO
 
Do you think any of the 141 people regret writing what they did after reading what was presented to the court?
 
kaba said:
Do you think any of the 141 people regret writing what they did after reading what was presented to the court?
Click to expand...
NOPE!
 
Not sure about saaaaap being such a great leader and had the ability to run a big business entity.  The very first time I ever heard him speak, as with Jim Bakker, I knew he was all fluff and full of stuff that makes tomatoes grow.  People who are that easy to read and an obvious empty suit, don't fare well in the business world either.  They can fool enough people to last for a short time, but they never make it for the long haul.  Run out of tricks. :)
 
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