Schaap's sentencing delayed

[patriotic]

Prosecuting someone for something that is is legal and not prosecutable in the state where both parties reside but against the law in another state would be interesting case law. 

The government sentencing memo said that Schaap broke Indiana law when he had sex multiple times in his office during youth conference. So even if he had stayed in IN, he still broke the law there.

Another issue with federal prosecution; Regardless of what they said, he did not violate any Indiana law; the Lake County prosecutor looked at the charges and found that there was nothing to charge him with.   I pointed out on the other forum, the plea agreement mentioned 35-42-4-7;  A good attempt but not entirely applicable to Schaap's position as pastor (since they are using the child care worker definition).  The victim was all ready expelled from the schools for improprieties with her boyfriend by the time she and Schaap started meeting, and the maximum penalty in Indiana if he did violate that law is a max of three years.

And that is precisely why he could say something along the lines that he knew he was breaking God's moral law, but he did not know he was doing anything illegal.  I'm still convinced the man had researched Indiana law and knew exactly what he was doing and believed he could get by with it. 

I'm still convinced there's way more to the story -  some financial indiscretions, other "affairs", whatever - that he could have been charged with, and the federal charges of transporting across state lines gave him the lighter/easier option.  Although, 12 years is not a "light" sentence, I think it's lighter than what he could have had if all the charges that could have been brought against him had been. 

qwerty, I thought I did read somewhere in prosecution doc that state charges were dropped only when he agreed to face federal charges? 

 

[qwerty]

Prosecuting someone for something that is is legal and not prosecutable in the state where both parties reside but against the law in another state would be interesting case law. 

The government sentencing memo said that Schaap broke Indiana law when he had sex multiple times in his office during youth conference. So even if he had stayed in IN, he still broke the law there.

Another issue with federal prosecution; Regardless of what they said, he did not violate any Indiana law; the Lake County prosecutor looked at the charges and found that there was nothing to charge him with.   I pointed out on the other forum, the plea agreement mentioned 35-42-4-7;  A good attempt but not entirely applicable to Schaap's position as pastor (since they are using the child care worker definition).  The victim was all ready expelled from the schools for improprieties with her boyfriend by the time she and Schaap started meeting, and the maximum penalty in Indiana if he did violate that law is a max of three years.

And that is precisely why he could say something along the lines that he knew he was breaking God's moral law, but he did not know he was doing anything illegal.  I'm still convinced the man had researched Indiana law and knew exactly what he was doing and believed he could get by with it. 

I'm still convinced there's way more to the story -  some financial indiscretions, other "affairs", whatever - that he could have been charged with, and the federal charges of transporting across state lines gave him the lighter/easier option.  Although, 12 years is not a "light" sentence, I think it's lighter than what he could have had if all the charges that could have been brought against him had been. 

qwerty, I thought I did read somewhere in prosecution doc that state charges were dropped only when he agreed to face federal charges?

Schaap is not an idiot, but at the same time, men (and women) do stupid things for love....

I am sure there is more to this whole thing too, and if I had to wager, it would be over money.  The feds were looking pretty hard at the books at the church, but as soon as the plea came out, they packed up their stuff pretty quick. 

There were no charges in the work in Indiana, not sure about Illinois or Michigan (I  never saw any mention of pending charges in those states in any news outlet), and the feds were pretty quick on this.  In his (Schaap's) plea agreement, they specifically address the Indiana statue, and speak in generalities with regards to the other two states. It looked fishy to me honestly.  The only time the laws in the other two states were specifically mentioned were in the sentencing memo.  The min/max in IL 4/14 years, and in MI it would have been 0/15 years. 

You are correct in that the plea agreement he made did stipulate that the local charges would be dropped in exchange for the plea....yet there was never a whisper of any local charges from any state. 

He most likely received what was deserved as punishment, but there is a broad disparity in the local charges (max in Indiana would have been 3 years if he did violate that specific statute) and what others receive for much more serious crimes.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=qwerty]Schaap is not an idiot, but at the same time, men (and women) do stupid things for love....[/quote]

Love?

 

[Ransom]

qwerty said:

That being said, this has been interesting to watch from a legal standpoint.  In relation to other sentences in the area, it is a bit steep.

Good.

Not that I expect the state to do the church's job, nonetheless, a clergyman is in a position of considerable trust, and so a proportionately steep steep civil penalty for the enormity of Schaap's offense is justified. And, it's entirely consistent with what the Scriptures say about an elder's responsibility to keep a clean moral record:

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness" (James 3:1).

"Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear" (1 Tim. 5:19-20).

 

[qwerty]

[quote author=qwerty]Schaap is not an idiot, but at the same time, men (and women) do stupid things for love....

Love?
[/quote]

Both the suspect and victim made statement in letters and way too many text messages that they were in love. One can say lust, infatuation, or whatever, but according to their own words, yes. 

 

[abp]

Prosecuting someone for something that is is legal and not prosecutable in the state where both parties reside but against the law in another state would be interesting case law. 

The government sentencing memo said that Schaap broke Indiana law when he had sex multiple times in his office during youth conference. So even if he had stayed in IN, he still broke the law there.

Another issue with federal prosecution;  Regardless of what they said, he did not violate any Indiana law; the Lake County prosecutor looked at the charges and found that there was nothing to charge him with.  I pointed out on the other forum, the plea agreement mentioned 35-42-4-7;  A good attempt but not entirely applicable to Schaap's position as pastor (since they are using the child care worker definition).  The victim was all ready expelled from the schools for improprieties with her boyfriend by the time she and Schaap started meeting, and the maximum penalty in Indiana if he did violate that law is a max of three years.

Shut the front door! So what you're saying is the federal prosecutor is a lying womin! Schaap has the perfect case for an appeal, he'll be out by Thanksgiving!

 

[FreeToBeMe]

Both the suspect and victim made statement in letters and way too many text messages that they were in love.

On her part, yes....she may have been in "love". 

On Jack's part, well, I'm sure most of us can agree that men will sometimes say almost anything when we're thinking with the wrong head.  Unfortunately, in Schaap's mind, she was merely a main character in his fantasies. IMO.

 

[Holy Mole]

Schaap will now have plenty of time to work on and refine that polished sermon of his.

 

[qwerty]

Prosecuting someone for something that is is legal and not prosecutable in the state where both parties reside but against the law in another state would be interesting case law. 

The government sentencing memo said that Schaap broke Indiana law when he had sex multiple times in his office during youth conference. So even if he had stayed in IN, he still broke the law there.

Another issue with federal prosecution;  Regardless of what they said, he did not violate any Indiana law; the Lake County prosecutor looked at the charges and found that there was nothing to charge him with.  I pointed out on the other forum, the plea agreement mentioned 35-42-4-7;  A good attempt but not entirely applicable to Schaap's position as pastor (since they are using the child care worker definition).  The victim was all ready expelled from the schools for improprieties with her boyfriend by the time she and Schaap started meeting, and the maximum penalty in Indiana if he did violate that law is a max of three years.

Shut the front door! So what you're saying is the federal prosecutor is a lying womin! Schaap has the perfect case for an appeal, he'll be out by Thanksgiving!

You can only withdraw a plea agreement before sentencing.  You can not appeal a plea after sentencing unless you can prove coercion or if you are given a sentence for a term longer that the agreement. He will serve his time.

 

[abp]

Prosecuting someone for something that is is legal and not prosecutable in the state where both parties reside but against the law in another state would be interesting case law. 

The government sentencing memo said that Schaap broke Indiana law when he had sex multiple times in his office during youth conference. So even if he had stayed in IN, he still broke the law there.

Another issue with federal prosecution;  Regardless of what they said, he did not violate any Indiana law; the Lake County prosecutor looked at the charges and found that there was nothing to charge him with.  I pointed out on the other forum, the plea agreement mentioned 35-42-4-7;  A good attempt but not entirely applicable to Schaap's position as pastor (since they are using the child care worker definition).  The victim was all ready expelled from the schools for improprieties with her boyfriend by the time she and Schaap started meeting, and the maximum penalty in Indiana if he did violate that law is a max of three years.

Shut the front door! So what you're saying is the federal prosecutor is a lying womin! Schaap has the perfect case for an appeal, he'll be out by Thanksgiving!

You can only withdraw a plea agreement before sentencing.  You can not appeal a plea after sentencing unless you can prove coercion or if you are given a sentence for a term longer that the agreement. He will serve his time.

Brazen hussy heifers! First you have a sultry girl seduce her preacher into having sexy time, then he gets screwed over by an overzealous conniving prosecutor!

TiC

 

[Vandal]

[quote author=qwerty]Schaap is not an idiot, but at the same time, men (and women) do stupid things for love....

Love?
[/quote]
Lust...

 

[Holy Mole]

This is so fitting in many sick and twisted ways:

Tainted Love by Soft Cell

 

[Just John]

Will preface this with the statement that I do not condone anything that Schaap did....

That being said, this has been interesting to watch from a legal standpoint.  In relation to other sentences in the area, it is a bit steep.  I have a case for vehicular homicide (which falls under involuntary manslaughter) where the guy wont see 10 years.  It goes to show the problems with the legal system in our nation...

I fail to see the problem here.

A person gets drunk and runs over someone and kills them, it falls under that statute.  This person took the life of an 8 year old child because of his own actions but because of the way the law is written he will most likely receive less than 10 year, (5 is the average in the county).

Guess some folks have no problem with that.

To be fair...it's not like you explained in your other post it was a drunk-driving case.

I don't have a problem with Schaap getting what he got because he abused a place of trust and authority. It's irrelevant what someone else gets for a different offense. This case should stand on it's own IMO.

 

[qwerty]

Will preface this with the statement that I do not condone anything that Schaap did....

That being said, this has been interesting to watch from a legal standpoint.  In relation to other sentences in the area, it is a bit steep.  I have a case for vehicular homicide (which falls under involuntary manslaughter) where the guy wont see 10 years.  It goes to show the problems with the legal system in our nation...

I fail to see the problem here.

A person gets drunk and runs over someone and kills them, it falls under that statute.  This person took the life of an 8 year old child because of his own actions but because of the way the law is written he will most likely receive less than 10 year, (5 is the average in the county).

Guess some folks have no problem with that.

To be fair...it's not like you explained in your other post it was a drunk-driving case.

I don't have a problem with Schaap getting what he got because he abused a place of trust and authority. It's irrelevant what someone else gets for a different offense. This case should stand on it's own IMO.

So killing an 8 year old sober is better...

(Sarcasm) )

 

[Just John]

Will preface this with the statement that I do not condone anything that Schaap did....

That being said, this has been interesting to watch from a legal standpoint.  In relation to other sentences in the area, it is a bit steep.  I have a case for vehicular homicide (which falls under involuntary manslaughter) where the guy wont see 10 years.  It goes to show the problems with the legal system in our nation...

I fail to see the problem here.

A person gets drunk and runs over someone and kills them, it falls under that statute.  This person took the life of an 8 year old child because of his own actions but because of the way the law is written he will most likely receive less than 10 year, (5 is the average in the county).

Guess some folks have no problem with that.

To be fair...it's not like you explained in your other post it was a drunk-driving case.

I don't have a problem with Schaap getting what he got because he abused a place of trust and authority. It's irrelevant what someone else gets for a different offense. This case should stand on it's own IMO.

So killing an 8 year old sober is better...

(Sarcasm) )

 

[Torrent v.2]

[quote author=qwerty]Schaap is not an idiot, but at the same time, men (and women) do stupid things for love....

Love?

Both the suspect and victim made statement in letters and way too many text messages that they were in love. One can say lust, infatuation, or whatever, but according to their own words, yes. 
[/quote]

Schaap the chronologically mature man, represented his perverted, twisted abuse of this teenage girl, who was very vulnerable, as love to trap her into having sex with him. No matter what he wrote, no matter how many million times he told her he loved her, he loved himself and hated her. He used and abused her.

 

[Torrent v.2]

I have never joked about abuse. Never.

 

[Torrent v.2]

Talking to yourself can sometimes be an indication that you need help.