If a "Jack Hyles" took the pastorate of FBCH today......

[RAIDER]

Hyles covered over many, many things because he had the guile, tact and charisma to do so. I wouldn't think personality or "style" would matter one way or the other. People tend to respond better when they feel they are loved, regardless of whether they truly are loved or not. So if a person could truly love or feign love effectively, I don't think demeanor would be a factor in most cases.

Having been out of Hammond for over 2 decades now, I can only speak as a generalization and not particularly on behalf of those in Hammond.

You make a good point.  Would you not say that the majority of people felt loved by Hyles?

 

[rsc2a]

Put very simply he would not be welcome today, we are experiencing the result of his ministry and for it we are paying dearly.

You are experiencing the results of Jack Schaap's ministry.  While I can see how you can use the "trickle-down affect" to blame Hyles, the major problems FBCH is having is from the Schaap years.

All hail the great and mighty Hyles!

 

[RAIDER]

Then you have DH. JS thought if DH could get way with it he could too.
I could go on but that was all in the 70s and 80s, the die had been cast.
Yes JS is the capstone of the JH way.

You may be correct.  IMO I don't think Schaap thought he could get away with it because Dave Hyles did.  Schaap saw Dave Hyles get caught and saw his fall.  This would have been more of a deterrent.  I truly believe that pride is at the heart of Schaap's decision making.  Pride blinded Schaap to the point of thinking he could get away with it.  I'm sure it started very innocently and snowballed quickly into sin and wickedness.  Schaap's pride blinded him step-by-step. 

 

[prophet]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

 

[RAIDER]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I don't think most people viewed Hyles as a drill sarge.  Yes, he ran things his way, but not in a drill sarge type way.

 

[prophet]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I don't think most people viewed Hyles as a drill sarge.  Yes, he ran things his way, but not in a drill sarge type way.

I'm answering your question,  as you posted it.

He was a drill sarge, an actual one, in WWII, 82nd Airborne CADRY training.
He never saw combat, because he was training troops at Bragg.

His personality, and preaching style were a direct result of this.

If you never said something in his presence, that he didn't agree with, then you don't really know Jack.

His bombastic public speaking style was honed in troop training, and, accordingly, assumed resistance to be a challenge to his rightful authority.  He would publicly ridicule those who disagreed with him, as would a D.S.
He would scream for emphasis, very much calculated, as a D.S. would.

Since troops aren't trained th at way anymore, and we haven't gone through the Great Depression 35 years ago, there is no one 40 years old who fits that bill.

They may be reminiscent in some areas, but they wont have been trained in the same manner.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Hyles covered over many, many things because he had the guile, tact and charisma to do so. I wouldn't think personality or "style" would matter one way or the other. People tend to respond better when they feel they are loved, regardless of whether they truly are loved or not. So if a person could truly love or feign love effectively, I don't think demeanor would be a factor in most cases.

Having been out of Hammond for over 2 decades now, I can only speak as a generalization and not particularly on behalf of those in Hammond.

You make a good point.  Would you not say that the majority of people felt loved by Hyles?

Yes. I do believe that people felt he loved them. Whether he did or not, only God knows but he was masterful at portraying concern and love for people. After all, he called his church "The church with a heart."

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I do not believe Ruckman is the last one. There are still a lot of Vineyard, Gray, Gomez, and Fugate types out there...to name a few. 

 

[Tennessean]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I don't think most people viewed Hyles as a drill sarge.  Yes, he ran things his way, but not in a drill sarge type way.

I'm answering your question,  as you posted it.

He was a drill sarge, an actual one, in WWII, 82nd Airborne CADRY training.
He never saw combat, because he was training troops at Bragg.

His personality, and preaching style were a direct result of this.

If you never said something in his presence, that he didn't agree with, then you don't really know Jack.

His bombastic public speaking style was honed in troop training, and, accordingly, assumed resistance to be a challenge to his rightful authority.  He would publicly ridicule those who disagreed with him, as would a D.S.
He would scream for emphasis, very much calculated, as a D.S. would.

Since troops aren't trained th at way anymore, and we haven't gone through the Great Depression 35 years ago, there is no one 40 years old who fits that bill.

They may be reminiscent in some areas, but they wont have been trained in the same manner.

Please clarify a point.

Where did you get that Jack Hyles was a drill sergeant? According to the biography and his own words after he got his jump wings with the 82nd Airborne he was never more than a typist/clerk for his company. He was a sergeant when he was discharged but he never claimed to be a DI. There is a huge difference between an army DI and a military paper pusher.

Not seeking to pick a fight. This is just something about his life I've never heard. Is there a book, a sermon, a family recollection that you have, I'd like to study this aspect of his life further.

 

[Tennessean]

If we used the same deliberative process as we used for our current pastor he would fail in these two areas.

1. "A bishop then must be blameless"  Fail, not blameless.

2. "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)"
Massive fail, children zero out of four.  He had the Eli syndrome. Immoral son and sons-in-law.

There were so-called great preachers on our list that could not pass this simple list of Biblical qualifications.

Put very simply he would not be welcome today, we are experiencing the result of his ministry and for it we are paying dearly.

The question is, would FBCH call a young (30 years old) Jack Hyles as its' pastor today? You say he would have been disqualified based upon the behavior of his children. But to stay true to the question, if you were to call a 30 year old Jack Hyles, how could you say that the behavior of grade school Becky, toddlers David and Linda Lue, and unborn Cindy could disqualify Jack Hyles.

Here is a quote from a letter from John R. Rice to Jack Hyles dated January 27, 1958.
"Dr. Bob Jones, sitting on the platform, turned and whispered to me one day, 'Who is that nice blond woman on the front seat with 2 little children?' I answered that she was the pastor's wife. He said, 'She is one of the best listeners I ever had. She listens so well and is so interested in all the services. She must be a good woman.' I, too, was impressed with her fine spiritual viewpoint, the joy of the Lord which was manifest, and her loyalty to the church and to you. God bless you, and how good it is that God has given you such a lovely Christian wife..."

So my question is, based on the Biblical requirements of I Timothy 3, what specifically would have disqualified a 30-year-old Jack Hyles from pastoring FBCH.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

The question is, would FBCH call a young (30 years old) Jack Hyles as its' pastor today?

No, the question is, "Let's say that a personality like Jack Hyles (preaching and teaching style, leadership style, personality style, etc)... The question is not about the man himself at any age.

 

[prophet]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I do not believe Ruckman is the last one. There are still a lot of Vineyard, Gray, Gomez, and Fugate types out there...to name a few.

None of those men served in WWII or grew up in the depression.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I do not believe Ruckman is the last one. There are still a lot of Vineyard, Gray, Gomez, and Fugate types out there...to name a few.

None of those men served in WWII or grew up in the depression.

Be that as it may, they are all cut from the same cloth and do indeed have the same personality. The "my way or the highway" mentality didn't start with WWII, nor did it end there.

 

[prophet]

I dont think that the WWII drill sarge personality is welcome in 2014.
And, also, it isn't available.

Ruckman is the last one.

So this is all a moot point.

I do not believe Ruckman is the last one. There are still a lot of Vineyard, Gray, Gomez, and Fugate types out there...to name a few.

None of those men served in WWII or grew up in the depression.

Be that as it may, they are all cut from the same cloth and do indeed have the same personality. The "my way or the highway" mentality didn't start with WWII, nor did it end there.

And I wasn't referring to their version of it.
I also was referring to the generation that they served in.

The Baby Boomers were a far cry from their parents, and Gen X is very different from the Baby Boomers.

We have neither now.

The Vietnam Vets didn't return kings of their universe, having stopped Hitler, the Moose, and HiroHito.

And they didnt return to a society that looked up to them, as heroes.

These are huge factors.

 

[RAIDER]

The question is, would FBCH call a young (30 years old) Jack Hyles as its' pastor today?

No, the question is, "Let's say that a personality like Jack Hyles (preaching and teaching style, leadership style, personality style, etc)... The question is not about the man himself at any age.

Thank you.  So many are missing the point for one reason or another.

 

[Bravo]

BG this is for you,...

I am afraid some people would still take the Jack Hyle's type and blindly try to relive the "glory days".

I've recently (in the last month) saw on FB a young adult state that Jack Schaap was a great pastor. And I just shook my head. I believe some would take Jack Schaap back again if they could.

Raider: You seem to want to see Hyles and Schaap separately. You couldn't get to the Schaap years without the Hyles years,... The one directly led to the other.

 

[RAIDER]

Raider: You seem to want to see Hyles and Schaap separately. You couldn't get to the Schaap years without the Hyles years,... The one directly led to the other.

I do see what you are saying, but I don't think you can attribute all successes and all failures to someone who had your "job" before you.  Hyles taught people to be loyal to a pastor who was doing right.  Schaap took advantage of that mindset among the people.  The people allowed him to teach heresy.

 

[RAIDER]

BG this is for you,...

I am afraid some people would still take the Jack Hyle's type and blindly try to relive the "glory days".

I've recently (in the last month) saw on FB a young adult state that Jack Schaap was a great pastor. And I just shook my head. I believe some would take Jack Schaap back again if they could.

I agree with you.  I believe the people of FBCH would welcome someone with Dr. Hyles personality, preaching/teaching style with open arms.

 

[Citadel of Truth]

I believe the people of FBCH would welcome someone with Dr. Hyles personality, preaching/teaching style with open arms.

Are there any preachers out there that emulate his positive qualities without also possessing his negative qualities? If so, such a man would be a tremendous find, I would think.

 

[RAIDER]

Are there any preachers out there that emulate his positive qualities without also possessing his negative qualities? If so, such a man would be a tremendous find, I would think.

I believe there are a few who think they do , but in reality I would doubt it.  If you think about it is there really another Rice, Roloff, Roberson, etc.?