High profile HAC students

[Tarheel Baptist]

Much has been made on this thread about Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 18 and 19 do not teach that they were destroyed because they were homosexuals. Genesis 18:19 teaches that God their sin is very grievous. It actually does not highlight homosexuality as the sin or even one of the sins. Ultimately the cities were destroyed not because of homosexuality but because of there not being 10 righteous people in the city. Chapter 19 gives us a picture of the wickedness of the city. Verse 4 and 5 tells us that all the people from every quarter came to Lot's house because they wanted to rape the angels. This is a whole lot more than just having a desire for the same sex. Interesting enough God's judgement on Lot's wife for looking back was the same as the wicked in Sodom and Gomorrah. I agree with Smellin that it is easier for us to see sin that doesn't tempt us as an abomination far worse than the adominations we struggle with and are guilty of committing.

Jude7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodomy is a sin worthy of the extreme judgement of God.
Period.
If I argued otherwise, I'd be guilty of lying! 

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Prophet...Two people living in a monogamous homosexual relationship...who do they hurt?

So you don't want to answer....ok

I felt that your broad question was a set up. I felt that I did answer it albeit with a question. I will state that I do not see who is hurt when two people are living in a monogamous relationship.

Do you believe Sodomy is a sin?

 

[LongGone]

I will state that I do not see who is hurt when two people are living in a monogamous relationship.

Did I take a wrong turn when entering the earth's atmosphere?  Did my ship land in the IFB forum or the Dr. Phil/Oprah forum?

First, a "monogamous relationship" among homo's (male or female) is a joke.  It's all about the sex and that's what it's always been about.

Second, the "hurt" is that the statistics show that male homo's have a life expectancy many years less than hetero's.  Why?  Well, you constantly ingest feces from multiple men and you will either contract hepatitis or AIDS or some other disease.  Then you spread that disease among the general population.  Of course, since the US Gov. does not keep illegals out of the US, we now have a reoccurrence of TB and measles.  So I guess any objection to any of this is racist, right?

So it does matter.  It might not matter to you but it sure matters to me.

I am not sure what world you live in that you are not aware of monogamous homosexual couples.  I have worked with quite of people over the years that have been in monogamous relationships.  Yes there are promiscuous homosexuals just as there are promiscuous heterosexuals.

Please cite a source for the life expectancy of gay men vs. straight men.  You obviously know much more about the gay life style than I do since I am not aware that ingesting feces were part of it.  Of course the homosexual in a monogamous relationship wouldn't be involved with multiple men. They also will not be spreading AIDS and as long as you are a straight monogamous male the chances of you getting AIDS are minimal.

I am not sure how illegals entered this conversation but I can not find any support that they are contributing to an increase in measles or TB.  What I found is that measles is increased by those not vaccinated and TB is up globally but not in the US.  Please cite sources. 

The fact that homosexual people exist is not a matter of great concern to me. The fact that I have known homosexual people that have been very good to me makes me want to be slow in painting all with the broad brush that you have chosen to use. 

 

[LongGone]

Jude7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodomy is a sin worthy of the extreme judgement of God.
Period.
If I argued otherwise, I'd be guilty of lying! 
[/quote]

Actually I think that Jude 7 supports my contention that the issue was much greater than just homosexuality.  Remember Genesis 19 tells us that the people of the city wanted to rape Lot's guests. Once again this is gross immorality much deeper than a homosexual relationship. 

I don't think that you are lying but I do think that you have made sodomy into a sin above all others sins that is not supported by scripture.  What sin is not worthy of the extreme judgement of God?

 

[LongGone]

Do you believe Sodomy is a sin?
[/quote]

Yes but not the end all sin that you appear to believe that it is. 

 

[prophet]

Rom 1:27
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

No one is born a Sod, they leave their natural desires.
Once they make this turn, they become filled with all unrighteousness.

BTW, the statistics are out there, if you want to do the research, and the monogamous Sod is a myth.

I dont know which sources are cited, but in the documentary  "Aids: The Judgement of God", many U.S. Gov. stats are given. 

And then there is their recruitment method...

Lying is awful, it is hateful.
However, the death penalty wasn't doled out for pride, or lying, etc.
17 states in our Union, however, meted out this just desert for Sodomy at one time in U.S. History.

There is so much wrong with your agenda here, not the least of which is the attempt at equating capital crimes with misdemeanors, LongGone.
Suffice it to say, I, for one, disagree strongly with you.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Much has been made on this thread about Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 18 and 19 do not teach that they were destroyed because they were homosexuals. Genesis 18:19 teaches that God their sin is very grievous. It actually does not highlight homosexuality as the sin or even one of the sins. Ultimately the cities were destroyed not because of homosexuality but because of there not being 10 righteous people in the city. Chapter 19 gives us a picture of the wickedness of the city. Verse 4 and 5 tells us that all the people from every quarter came to Lot's house because they wanted to rape the angels. This is a whole lot more than just having a desire for the same sex. Interesting enough God's judgement on Lot's wife for looking back was the same as the wicked in Sodom and Gomorrah. I agree with Smellin that it is easier for us to see sin that doesn't tempt us as an abomination far worse than the adominations we struggle with and are guilty of committing.

Exactly. And the sexual proclivities were not merely consentual homosexual acts, the citizens wanted to rape the guests. In Judges 19, there is an example of the tribe of Benjamin doing pretty much the exact same thing yet God didn't destroy that tribe. God clearly showed through the prophets that the destruction of Sodom was due to their lack of benevolence ("righteous people").

Tarheel says:

A few sprinkled verses...out of context!?
Maybe to someone who is a biased hermeneutical illiterate  seeking to defend the sin of sodomy.

Wait. I thought proper hermeneutics involved comparing Scripture with Scripture. When you compare the verses in the OT concerning Sodom, there is nil comment that they were destroyed due to stritctly homosexual activity.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I will state that I do not see who is hurt when two people are living in a monogamous relationship.

Did I take a wrong turn when entering the earth's atmosphere?  Did my ship land in the IFB forum or the Dr. Phil/Oprah forum?

First, a "monogamous relationship" among homo's (male or female) is a joke.  It's all about the sex and that's what it's always been about.

Quite a broadbrush there. The gay people I know who are in relationships seek emotional as well as physical ties. Sure some do it for the sex but there is an emotional connection with members of the same sex that a person who is gay needs to fulfill his/her life.

Second, the "hurt" is that the statistics show that male homo's have a life expectancy many years less than hetero's.  Why?  Well, you constantly ingest feces from multiple men and you will either contract hepatitis or AIDS or some other disease.  Then you spread that disease among the general population.  Of course, since the US Gov. does not keep illegals out of the US, we now have a reoccurrence of TB and measles.  So I guess any objection to any of this is racist, right?

So it does matter.  It might not matter to you but it sure matters to me.

Since it matters, what are you personally doing to help the gay community come out of their lifestyle? I don't mean preach at them, give them lip service, I mean getting to know gay people in their relationships and being involved in their lives to pull them out.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Much has been made on this thread about Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 18 and 19 do not teach that they were destroyed because they were homosexuals. Genesis 18:19 teaches that God their sin is very grievous. It actually does not highlight homosexuality as the sin or even one of the sins. Ultimately the cities were destroyed not because of homosexuality but because of there not being 10 righteous people in the city. Chapter 19 gives us a picture of the wickedness of the city. Verse 4 and 5 tells us that all the people from every quarter came to Lot's house because they wanted to rape the angels. This is a whole lot more than just having a desire for the same sex. Interesting enough God's judgement on Lot's wife for looking back was the same as the wicked in Sodom and Gomorrah. I agree with Smellin that it is easier for us to see sin that doesn't tempt us as an abomination far worse than the adominations we struggle with and are guilty of committing.

Jude7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodomy is a sin worthy of the extreme judgement of God.
Period.
If I argued otherwise, I'd be guilty of lying! 

And it comes down to how you choose to interpet "strange flesh". It is clear that they sought to rape the sojourners in their land. Yeah, I would call that going after "strange flesh". Not exactly the city's Welcome Wagon...

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Rom 1:27
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

No one is born a Sod, they leave their natural desires.
Once they make this turn, they become filled with all unrighteousness.

BTW, the statistics are out there, if you want to do the research, and the monogamous Sod is a myth.

I dont know which sources are cited, but in the documentary  "Aids: The Judgement of God", many U.S. Gov. stats are given. 

And then there is their recruitment method...

Lying is awful, it is hateful.
However, the death penalty wasn't doled out for pride, or lying, etc.
17 states in our Union, however, meted out this just desert for Sodomy at one time in U.S. History.

There is so much wrong with your agenda here, not the least of which is the attempt at equating capital crimes with misdemeanors, LongGone.
Suffice it to say, I, for one, disagree strongly with you.

So you believe in stoning one's children should they disobey. That too was a capital offense.

 

[Norefund]

Maybe we should ask the forum moderator to open a Westboro Baptist sub-forum.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Do you believe Sodomy is a sin?

Yes but not the end all sin that you appear to believe that it is.
[/quote]


Yes!!
Thank you.

And  I have no clue as to what end all sin means.
Just as you have no clue what I believe.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Smellin:
Wait. I thought proper hermeneutics involved comparing Scripture with Scripture. When you compare the verses in the OT concerning Sodom, there is nil comment that they were destroyed due to stritctly homosexual activity.

Dan, scripture is filled with references to Sodomy....not exactly rocket science to anyone who:
Can read.
Is not seeking to justify perversion.
Is not biblically illiterate.
Someone who doesn't read Scripture and then declare 'it didn't say what it meant on mean what it said'.


Do you believe Sodomy is a sin?

 

[prophet]

Rom 1:27
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

No one is born a Sod, they leave their natural desires.
Once they make this turn, they become filled with all unrighteousness.

BTW, the statistics are out there, if you want to do the research, and the monogamous Sod is a myth.

I dont know which sources are cited, but in the documentary  "Aids: The Judgement of God", many U.S. Gov. stats are given. 

And then there is their recruitment method...

Lying is awful, it is hateful.
However, the death penalty wasn't doled out for pride, or lying, etc.
17 states in our Union, however, meted out this just desert for Sodomy at one time in U.S. History.

There is so much wrong with your agenda here, not the least of which is the attempt at equating capital crimes with misdemeanors, LongGone.
Suffice it to say, I, for one, disagree strongly with you.

So you believe in stoning one's children shoud they disobey. That too was a capital offense.

Absolom rebelled, and yes.

Leaving a greenbean on your plate is not the same.

 

[cpizzle]

Let's just quit sniping and agree on a few points....

1. Sodomy is a grievous sin before God, listed right above bestiality in Romans 1 as the final descent of mankind into sin. (anyone who says otherwise is intentionally lying.  They may not believe the Bible is God's word, but they cannot deny the Bible clearly labels it an abomination.)
2. People are born with a sin nature because of the fall of man, not because God created us sinners.
3. People are born with different temptations, once again, due to sin nature.
4. Homosexuals are born with the sinful desire to have "sex" within the same gender.  They are not created this way, they are born this way due to sin.
5. Homosexual temptations are no more sinful than heterosexual temptations.  Acting on any sexual sin is wrong.  (I am born wanting to have sex with multiple women simultaneously outside of my marriage.  I don't act on these temptations because they are sinful and contrary to scripture.  I must suppress my sinful sexual desires that I did not "choose" to have.)
6. A person born with homosexual desires should not act on them anymore than a married person should commit adultery.  I was not born wanting to be sexually monogamous, but I have never slept with anyone who was not my wife.  I choose to not act on my temptations.
7. A person who has homosexual desires can choose to not act on them and can choose to live a life that pleases God.  This has been done for centuries, until society began encouraging people to "be who they are." 
8. Pastors should preach HARD against homosexuality, but not with the intention of hurting others or making church members feel self righteous. 
9. Preaching against heterosexual sins should also be preached hard against, because those are the sins most likely occurring in the church.  Fornication, adultery, pornography, divorce, ect.. are rampant in Baptist churches, but we ignore those.  Lost people are going to act like lost people, but the people of God have no excuse.

 

[RAIDER]

Let's just quit sniping and agree on a few points....

1. Sodomy is a grievous sin before God, listed right above bestiality in Romans 1 as the final descent of mankind into sin. (anyone who says otherwise is intentionally lying.  They may not believe the Bible is God's word, but they cannot deny the Bible clearly labels it an abomination.)
2. People are born with a sin nature because of the fall of man, not because God created us sinners.
3. People are born with different temptations, once again, due to sin nature.
4. Homosexuals are born with the sinful desire to have "sex" within the same gender.  They are not created this way, they are born this way due to sin.
5. Homosexual temptations are no more sinful than heterosexual temptations.  Acting on any sexual sin is wrong.  (I am born wanting to have sex with multiple women simultaneously outside of my marriage.  I don't act on these temptations because they are sinful and contrary to scripture.  I must suppress my sinful sexual desires that I did not "choose" to have.)
6. A person born with homosexual desires should not act on them anymore than a married person should commit adultery.  I was not born wanting to be sexually monogamous, but I have never slept with anyone who was not my wife.  I choose to not act on my temptations.
7. A person who has homosexual desires can choose to not act on them and can choose to live a life that pleases God.  This has been done for centuries, until society began encouraging people to "be who they are." 
8. Pastors should preach HARD against homosexuality, but not with the intention of hurting others or making church members feel self righteous. 
9. Preaching against heterosexual sins should also be preached hard against, because those are the sins most likely occurring in the church.  Fornication, adultery, pornography, divorce, ect.. are rampant in Baptist churches, but we ignore those.  Lost people are going to act like lost people, but the people of God have no excuse.

Hey, that's enough of that level-headed thinking on the HAC FFF!!!!

 

[subllibrm]

It's the pants on the wimmin I tell you. Once they put that thar material 'tween their legs, the 'hole wurld dun gone to H*E* - double toothpicks!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Let's just quit sniping and agree on a few points....

1. Sodomy is a grievous sin before God, listed right above bestiality in Romans 1 as the final descent of mankind into sin. (anyone who says otherwise is intentionally lying.  They may not believe the Bible is God's word, but they cannot deny the Bible clearly labels it an abomination.)
2. People are born with a sin nature because of the fall of man, not because God created us sinners.
3. People are born with different temptations, once again, due to sin nature.
4. Homosexuals are born with the sinful desire to have "sex" within the same gender.  They are not created this way, they are born this way due to sin.
5. Homosexual temptations are no more sinful than heterosexual temptations.  Acting on any sexual sin is wrong.  (I am born wanting to have sex with multiple women simultaneously outside of my marriage.  I don't act on these temptations because they are sinful and contrary to scripture.  I must suppress my sinful sexual desires that I did not "choose" to have.)
6. A person born with homosexual desires should not act on them anymore than a married person should commit adultery.  I was not born wanting to be sexually monogamous, but I have never slept with anyone who was not my wife.  I choose to not act on my temptations.
7. A person who has homosexual desires can choose to not yact on them and can choose to live a life that pleases God.  This has been done for centuries, until society began encouraging people to "be who they are." 
8. Pastors should preach HARD against homosexuality, but not with the intention of hurting others or making church members feel self righteous. 
9. Preaching against heterosexual sins should also be preached hard against, because those are the sins most likely occurring in the church.  Fornication, adultery, pornography, divorce, ect.. are rampant in Baptist churches, but we ignore those.  Lost people are going to act like lost people, but the people of God have no excuse.

Your summary is excellent, and should be obvious to those who are Christ followers. It's sad to me that they aren't.
As to number 9, my experience is they are not ignored....if anything they are over-emphasized compared to other preaching/teaching topics.

 

[cpizzle]

Your summary is excellent, and should be obvious to those who are Christ followers. It's sad to me that they aren't.
As to number 9, my experience is they are not ignored....if anything they are over-emphasized compared to other preaching/teaching topics.
[/quote]

In too many "Megachurches" and "Megachurch Wantabee" churches, preachers have given up on purity.  They have decided that their teens are going to hookup, their young adults are going to shack up, and their married people are going to split up, no matter what is preached.  They think that preaching purity will drive young people away, and not make a difference anyway.  I have seen shack ups teaching Sunday school!  Preachers assume they have lost the battle and have moved on to other things.

 

[LongGone]

Rom 1:27
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

No one is born a Sod, they leave their natural desires.
Once they make this turn, they become filled with all unrighteousness.

BTW, the statistics are out there, if you want to do the research, and the monogamous Sod is a myth.

I dont know which sources are cited, but in the documentary  "Aids: The Judgement of God", many U.S. Gov. stats are given. 

And then there is their recruitment method...

Lying is awful, it is hateful.
However, the death penalty wasn't doled out for pride, or lying, etc.
17 states in our Union, however, meted out this just desert for Sodomy at one time in U.S. History.

There is so much wrong with your agenda here, not the least of which is the attempt at equating capital crimes with misdemeanors, LongGone.
Suffice it to say, I, for one, disagree strongly with you.

First it doesn't say they leave their natural desires but leave the natural use of women. 

I don't see why you see the need to call people Sods. Yes there are all kinds of statistics that can say anything you want but you lose all credibility when you state that there are no monogamous homosexual relationships. That just is not true. That like saying all pastors can't keep their zipper up because they are pastors who can't.  I find it hard to take serious anyone that believes AIDS was God's judgement on gay people.  If God passing out judgement it would be more like Sodom and Gomorrah than a disease that in the US has been under control for 3 decades. 

Gay people do not recruit.  Pedophiles need to recruit. I am 58 years old and have known scores of gay people. Absolutely no one try to recruit me to the other team.  Once again it is hard to take you seriously with those type of allegations.   

We use to allow people to have slaves...so the fact that the death penalty was given to homosexuals doesn't mean it was right. 

I have no agenda.  I also disagree with you but I think that you have placed homosexuality in a category that God does not place it. So I think you disagree with God and refuse to accept facts that don't fit into your argument.