Fight back against the "equality" avatars

[Castor Muscular]

Yes - I would agree that God's perfect design of man is to find women attractive.

Have at 'er, tiger.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]Yes - I would agree that God's perfect design of man is to find women attractive.[/quote]

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now you can condemn others (in this case the "us") for their innate desires, which you yourself acknowledge were given by God since those desires can lead to sin, just like you condemn others for their innate desires (the proverbial "them").

Funny thing about "us" and "them". "They" are frequently really "us"; we just ignore that part of "us".

 

[Timothy]

[quote author=Timothy]Yes - I would agree that God's perfect design of man is to find women attractive.

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now you can condemn others (in this case the "us") for their innate desires, which you yourself acknowledge were given by God since those desires can lead to sin, just like you condemn others for their innate desires (the proverbial "them").

Funny thing about "us" and "them". "They are frequently really "us"; we just ignore that part of "us".
[/quote]

I don't believe it is a sin to find a woman attractive.

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

It is the lustful look that is the problem.

And what does this honestly have to do with homosexuality? Would your arguments fly when trying to defend a mass murderer?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]I don't believe it is a sin to find a woman attractive. And, honestly, it isn't a sin for a man to find another man attractive.[/quote]

Then stop railing against homosexuals for their desires.

[quote author=Timothy]But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

It is the lustful look that is the problem.[/quote]

Yes.

[quote author=Timothy]And what does this honestly have to do with homosexuality? Would your arguments fly when trying to defend a mass murderer?[/quote]

You first question... *sigh*

Your second question makes no sense concerning my arguments.

 

[rsc2a]

what i refuse to accept is gay men walking into the womens restroom and claiming their gender identity crisis entitles them to do that....  ....  and yes, i have seen it happen.. . . more than once.. ..  ...  if there was ever a group that when given an inch leaps for the mile, it is them.. ...  even a close friend of mine who has fought with lesbian issues most of her life says that.. . . she;s as tired of seeing gay guys try to force their way into our circle of friends, and pass themselves off as one of the girls, as i am.. .. ...

i have no problem with anyone being what they want to be...  if a glutton wants to sit at a table next to mine and gorge himself on cheesecake that;s fine with me.. .. . but what i don;t accept is him thinking he can toss it over onto my table or rub it in my face. ...  if he tries to he will quickly be educated, with nothing left to uncertainty, how much i don;t accept it.... .. ... and believe me, i won;t need an avatar to get my point across.. ..

This is a different argument, and one I would largely agree with.

 

[Timothy]

Sorry. I will never approve or accept homosexuality.

It is a sin and I question the mindset of anyone trying to prove anything other than that it is a sin.

 

[rsc2a]

Sorry. I will never approve or accept homosexuality.

It is a sin...

Homosexuality - a desire/attraction for the same sex

Desires are not sins. (I'll also point out that you don't direct this anger at your own desires that could lead to sin. (See the difference there?)

[quote author=Timothy]...and I question the mindset of anyone trying to prove anything other than that it is a sin.[/quote]

Much easier to be judgmental and self-righteous, no?

Thank God that I am not a sinner like these homosexuals and...

 

[Timothy]

Sorry. I will never approve or accept homosexuality.

It is a sin...

Homosexuality - a desire/attraction for the same sex

Desires are not sins. (I'll also point out that you don't direct this anger at your own desires that could lead to sin. (See the difference there?)

[quote author=Timothy]...and I question the mindset of anyone trying to prove anything other than that it is a sin.

Much easier to be judgmental and self-righteous, no?

Thank God that I am not a sinner like these homosexuals and...
[/quote]

Actually, the definition is sexual desire toward another of the same sex

 

[ALAYMAN]

Have I said anything about people who unapologetically act upon their urges to sin?

Had I said anything about people having homosexual desires yet not acting on them?


You're the one who introduced the concept of "acceptance".  I merely asked you to define your terms.  If by "acceptance" you mean that their lifestyle shouldn't be condemned as sinful then I disagree.  If you mean treat them with dignity as a human created in God's image, I got no problem with that.  And as Aleshanee said, treating them with respect and civility doesn't mean I have to agree (or "accept") with their radical agenda.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Timothy]Actually, the definition is sexual desire toward another of the same sex[/quote]

Your point?

 

[rsc2a]

Have I said anything about people who unapologetically act upon their urges to sin?

Had I said anything about people having homosexual desires yet not acting on them?

So your problem was exactly what with me saying you should accept people where they are at?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]You're the one who introduced the concept of "acceptance".  I merely asked you to define your terms.  If by "acceptance" you mean that their lifestyle shouldn't be condemned as sinful then I disagree.If you mean treat them with dignity as a human created in God's image, I got no problem with that.[/quote]

Yes. Like I said, you accept them where they are at. I don't recall God ever saying "Do this, this, and this, then I'll talk to you about saving you." He saves you then starts working on the sanctification process. (In a weird "saved before time began so sanctification starting from your first breath" kind of paradoxical way.)

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And as Aleshanee said, treating them with respect and civility doesn't mean I have to agree (or "accept") with their radical agenda.[/quote]

I know several gay folks, and none of them have an agenda. Most are actually quite conservative politically.

 

[Timothy]

Wait. I just went over the last 12 or so post .... are you saying that the desire is okay, but to act on the desire is where the sin it?

That is an interesting point.

I thank God I don't have that temptation to deal with. And yes, I suppose anyone who is tempted to lust after the same sex is far different than two men sharing a bed.

 

[rsc2a]

Wait. I just went over the last 12 or so post .... are you saying that the desire is okay, but to act on the desire is where the sin it?

That is an interesting point.

I thank God I don't have that temptation to deal with. And yes, I suppose anyone who is tempted to lust after the same sex is far different than two men sharing a bed.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The desire is not sinful. Once that desire progresses to lust, sin.

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

Have I said anything about people who unapologetically act upon their urges to sin?

Had I said anything about people having homosexual desires yet not acting on them?

So your problem was exactly what with me saying you should accept people where they are at?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]You're the one who introduced the concept of "acceptance".  I merely asked you to define your terms.  If by "acceptance" you mean that their lifestyle shouldn't be condemned as sinful then I disagree.If you mean treat them with dignity as a human created in God's image, I got no problem with that.

Yes. Like I said, you accept them where they are at. I don't recall God ever saying "Do this, this, and this, then I'll talk to you about saving you." He saves you then starts working on the sanctification process. (In a weird "saved before time began so sanctification starting from your first breath" kind of paradoxical way.)

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And as Aleshanee said, treating them with respect and civility doesn't mean I have to agree (or "accept") with their radical agenda.

I know several gay folks, and none of them have an agenda. Most are actually quite conservative politically.
[/quote]

i know some who are conservative too.. . but unfortunately... i also know a few gay people who do have an agenda.. .. . some have even brought it to these forums before .. .they could be doing it now... ..  doesn;t the average warrior have an agenda?... most people are not called warriors unless they have some kind of purpose or something they are fighting for......  . it all depends on who is trying to change who... and who is looking to the other for help and for answers.. . . sometimes people can be pretending to look for answers all the while just waiting for the right moments to get their own point across.... .. or chances to undermine the people they are pretending to seek help from... .. rub mud (or cheesecake) in their face as the case may be... .  i;m not saying it;s what here happening now... but i can tell you for certainty it has happened before...  . and it will again.. . .
[/quote]

I can assure you honey, I have no agenda here except to serve my on curiosity. To see who is bigoted or who is more Christlike. So far I have received what I have expected like everywhere in the world, with some exceptions,

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=rsc2a]

So your problem was exactly what with me saying you should accept people where they are at?
[/quote]
It depends, as I said, on who the people are. If you are talking about saved folk then accepting them where they are is not acceptable if where they are is in a state of perpetual unrepentant sin.  And Christ doesn't accept them as they are either. They must be clothed in Christ's righteousness to be accepted of the Father.

And if you don't think there is a gay agenda then I really can't help you.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=rsc2a]

So your problem was exactly what with me saying you should accept people where they are at?

It depends, as I said, on who the people are. If you are talking about saved folk then accepting them where they are is not acceptable if where they are is in a state of perpetual unrepentant sin.[/quote]

You only accept dead people?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And Christ doesn't accept them as they are either. [/quote]

No. Absolutely not. Not even a little bit. And then...

...ALAYMAN teaches works-based righteousness!?!? 

[quote author=ALAYMAN]They must be clothed in Christ's righteousness to be accepted of the Father.[/quote]

Yes, which is a free gift (i.e. "grace"). And that not of yourself...

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And if you don't think there is a gay agenda then I really can't help you.[/quote]

I think some gay folks have an agenda; I don't think there is "a gay agenda".

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=aleshanee]i;m not your honey.. .  and the fact that you take it on yourself to adress me that way tells me which side of the bigoted vrs Christlike scale you;re resting on...[/quote]

I thought it was a bit demeaning when I read it as well.

[quote author=aleshanee]. but then i saw you baiting people on the forum over a controversial issue  .. then trying to play judge and jury when you got the results you even admit you came here looking for... ..  you are not here to serve your curiosity and you know it..[/quote]

Yes. It does appear like RW has pretty plainly stated they are looking to troll.

 

[Torrent v.2]

Have I said anything about people who unapologetically act upon their urges to sin?

Had I said anything about people having homosexual desires yet not acting on them?

So your problem was exactly what with me saying you should accept people where they are at?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]You're the one who introduced the concept of "acceptance".  I merely asked you to define your terms.  If by "acceptance" you mean that their lifestyle shouldn't be condemned as sinful then I disagree.If you mean treat them with dignity as a human created in God's image, I got no problem with that.

Yes. Like I said, you accept them where they are at. I don't recall God ever saying "Do this, this, and this, then I'll talk to you about saving you." He saves you then starts working on the sanctification process. (In a weird "saved before time began so sanctification starting from your first breath" kind of paradoxical way.)

[quote author=ALAYMAN]And as Aleshanee said, treating them with respect and civility doesn't mean I have to agree (or "accept") with their radical agenda.

I know several gay folks, and none of them have an agenda. Most are actually quite conservative politically.

i know some who are conservative too.. . but unfortunately... i also know a few gay people who do have an agenda.. .. . some have even brought it to these forums before .. .they could be doing it now... ..  doesn;t the average warrior have an agenda?... most people are not called warriors unless they have some kind of purpose or something they are fighting for......  . it all depends on who is trying to change who... and who is looking to the other for help and for answers.. . . sometimes people can be pretending to look for answers all the while just waiting for the right moments to get their own point across.... .. or chances to undermine the people they are pretending to seek help from... .. rub mud (or cheesecake) in their face as the case may be... .  i;m not saying it;s what here happening now... but i can tell you for certainty it has happened before...  . and it will again.. . .

I can assure you honey, I have no agenda here except to serve my on curiosity. To see who is bigoted or who is more Christlike. So far I have received what I have expected like everywhere in the world, with some exceptions,
[/quote]

i;m not your honey.. .  and the fact that you take it on yourself to adress me that way tells me which side of the bigoted vrs Christlike scale you;re resting on... .  .. it also tells me more about your personal character than i want to know... .. .. . .  when i first saw your name i thought you might be a fan of the university of hawaii... since "rainbow warriors" is the name of their sports teams.. .. but then i saw you baiting people on the forum over a controversial issue  .. then trying to play judge and jury when you got the results you even admit you came here looking for... ..  you are not here to serve your curiosity and you know it.. ..  you came here to serve your ego .... to justify yourself.. .  ... baiting people then pointing out what you see as their hypocrisy helps you serve that.. ..  it;s a game that;s been played here many times before... . you are not the first, and not even the most interesting, poster to come in and try it.. ...
[/quote]


Good insight and assessment.

 

[ALAYMAN]

You only accept dead people?

Are you suggesting that all living people are perpetually unrepentant?

No. Absolutely not. Not even a little bit. And then...

...ALAYMAN teaches works-based righteousness!?!? 

What in the world are you babbling about now?

Yes, which is a free gift (i.e. "grace"). And that not of yourself...

Who would argue that it's not God's grace that saves us, sanctifies us, and glorifies us?  You are arguing against things that only you've invented.  My point was that no person ought to feel "accepted" in the sense that they are comfortable with their sin, particularly those who are lost.  One gay man said "why would God want me to repent of the wonderful gift of my gayness, which He gave me"?  That person has bought into the idea that God accepts sinfulness as acceptable.

I think some gay folks have an agenda; I don't think there is "a gay agenda".

Again, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[Castor Muscular]

...ALAYMAN teaches works-based righteousness!?!? 

No, not just works.  Appearances count, too.