Cindy filed for divorce?
- Thread starter Norefund
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Still There said:qwerty said:
Let's just say, as a member of FBC, I was shocked at the house and its "humble" furnishings, a lot of furnishings. It's quite humbling. I had to laugh at the mantle piece picture. Look at one picture and it's there and then the next clip, it's gone. HMMM! LOL!
Looks like his home furnishings were more modest than his office furnishings - From what I remember.
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Norefund said:
I haven't heard that name in a long time. I knew them really well. I didn't know it was once owned by them. I had heard the house in Crete had been on the market a while and listed for $900,000. He got it for $600,000. Cash.
Tom Brennan said:
I have great respect for your opinions after listening to the "39 Years..." message, but I believe he did as much harm to Christianity as, say Billy Graham has done. Was he a fraud? I really don't know, but when pastors begin to think that they have to "protect their image", that leads to fraud.
patriotic said:
Heard him talk about blowing off the place that sold him the gun safe when they recommended delivery and installation , then regretted it when it came to him and the guys in the family getting it downstairs. He said then it's not coming back up. Guess it didn't.
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Baptist City Holdout said:
Nope. That is just a door, not a fireproof safe that would protect ammunition from flames. A gun safe is just that - a box, not just a door. This door seems to lead to a room where he either played alot of ping pong, or the original contents have been replaced.
kaba said:
Most importantly, by leading American Christianity to throw away the doctrinal essential of ecclesiastical separation. Much else of error flowed from that, and b/c of the esteem in which he was held, and the extensive reach and length of his ministry that error has flowed deep and wide.
I have a great deal of respect for Billy Graham, the man, in regards to his personal integrity. I have very little respect for Billy Graham, the preacher, and especially for Billy Graham, the Christian movement leader.
IFB X-Files said:
I agree with everything that has been said here regarding B.G., but I think it’s only fair to point out it's likely more people will be in heaven because of him then any man that has ever lived. He reached many in his lifetime.
He clearly changed his position on many things including Hell. He clearly fellowshipped & spoke with groups who were not even Christian but he was still a great evangelist.
sword said:
The measure of our life isn't/cannot be what it seems we have accomplished. The only measurement valid is whether/if/to what extent we obeyed God. Billy Graham is not a success b/c tens of thousands came to Christ in His ministry. He is a failure (at least in the sense in which I am speaking) b/c he clearly and repeatedly and openly disobeyed God in this area, and influenced an entire generation of American Christianity to disobey in the same way.
Tom Brennan said:
Precisely so. And, as you so well preached in the excellent "39 Years" message, we must take the same measuring stick to "our" big names like Jack Hyles. It isn't about the numbers that may have been saved through their ministry - but did they (for preachers) preach the Bible? Did they edify others and obey the command to "feed the flock of God which is among you"?
In my opinion, Jack Hyles taught a complete unscriptural concept of authority/loyalty; he exalted himself almost to God (I was personally present when a fellow preacher introduced JH, calling him 'God' - such a thing would have brought [and did bring] sharp rebuke from the likes Paul - but JH ate it up). I watched in disgust as he seemed to be accorded "rock star" status when he got on the platform to preach; people making much of him, but not so much of God Himself) - cult of personality, it is called. His organist stated that there was no difference between loyalty to JH and to God. All of this is wrong. Granted, it was not he, but his organist that thought that way -- but she sat under his ministry for decades, and was either taught that directly, or was never taught that the pastor is a man like other men. Why wasn't her pastor feeding her Biblical truth?
Ah, I don't want to rehearse everything again.
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Walt said:
Because that is the "Biblical truth" that Jack Hyles taught (and I think really believed). The mantra taught under Wendell Evans was "there is no loyalty but blind loyalty," and when he taught that in his classes, he attributed it to Jack Hyles teaching him.
I heard myself Bro. Hyles teach on that unscriptural concept of authority/loyalty you spoke of. This is what he based it off of ...
Exodus 4:
14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.
15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.
On one of these threads, someone discusses an illustration common among HACkers about people asking to see your hands, because they expected to see nail prints there, certain that you were actually Christ. I heard Bro. Hyles give that illustration many times, especially when mentioning the above verses about Moses being to Aaron "instead of God." Yes, in his mind, he was literally in the place of God to his people on this earth. That is a large part, in my way of thinking, of what caused all the many problems up there.
btw ... where is this "39 years" message located?
PappaBear said:
http://maplewoodbiblebaptistchurch.org/media.php?pageID=6
...scroll down the page to 8/19/12
"39 Years an Independent Baptist...And Grieved About It"
There is also a downloadable print copy available once you pull up the sermon.
Walt said:
Walt, my longer considered and public opinion about Jack Hyles can be found here:
http://www.fundamentalforums.org/hyles-anderson-college/so-what-did-youdo-you-believe/10/
I am glad that Billy Graham stepped up and was able to reach others for the Gospel of Christ, he might have done things differently than what I was taught in my IFB church, but that doesnt make it wrong.
I highly respect my father, (who has since passed away in 1999), and value his opinion. He was an IFB through and through, but loved to hear Billy Graham and respected the work he did.
There are those that tear down Billy Graham but want us to over look what Schaap did, or they want to ignore any truth to the evil from Jack Hyles. But they love to continue to look down on Billy Graham and his style of reaching others.
I highly respect my father, (who has since passed away in 1999), and value his opinion. He was an IFB through and through, but loved to hear Billy Graham and respected the work he did.
There are those that tear down Billy Graham but want us to over look what Schaap did, or they want to ignore any truth to the evil from Jack Hyles. But they love to continue to look down on Billy Graham and his style of reaching others.
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My wife and I have a solid marriage and I can't imagine a divorce in our life. But if we did, it would be sad if the details were uploaded to the internet and talked about it. I think that would be horrible. I know the Schaaps were in the "public eye", but there done, so let's put a fork in it and move on.