Can you be a "Gay Christian?"

[rsc2a]

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :

No sir.  There is not crushing the minority any more.  There is generating increase hostility on both sides.  It closes the path of honest, equal dialogue and keeps resolution and reconciliation from occurring.  :'(

Increased hostility like you displayed in the above post towards those in the majority?

No sir.  It is not hostility to state the facts.  This is the reason that honest and equal dialogue cannot be established.  When someone in the minority points out the problems they see it is taken as hostility instead of honest criticism.  This would relegate my view to emotion instead of reason and effectively invalidates my view.  When this happens dialogue becomes a monologue and neither the majority or minority groups learn anything and nothing changes--no reconciliation and no resolution.

You don't see hostility by painting all in the majority with such a broad brush? Personally, I have no issues at all with other cultures, nor do I suspect them nor do I require them to validate their viewpoints (any more than I do anyone else). Additionally, I don't automatically accuse minorities of crying wolf, nor do I think all the problems minority individuals face is self-inflicted. (Again, any more than I do anyone else...)

...yet you have attached that label to me as a member of the majority. Which one is the one making a judgment based on the cultural differences here? Hmm...

 

[graceandtruth]

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :

No sir.  There is not crushing the minority any more.  There is generating increase hostility on both sides.  It closes the path of honest, equal dialogue and keeps resolution and reconciliation from occurring.  :'(

Increased hostility like you displayed in the above post towards those in the majority?

No sir.  It is not hostility to state the facts.  This is the reason that honest and equal dialogue cannot be established.  When someone in the minority points out the problems they see it is taken as hostility instead of honest criticism.  This would relegate my view to emotion instead of reason and effectively invalidates my view.  When this happens dialogue becomes a monologue and neither the majority or minority groups learn anything and nothing changes--no reconciliation and no resolution.

You don't see hostility by painting all in the majority with such a broad brush? Personally, I have no issues at all with other cultures, nor do I suspect them nor do I require them to validate their viewpoints (any more than I do anyone else). Additionally, I don't automatically accuse minorities of crying wolf, nor do I think all the problems minority individuals face is self-inflicted. (Again, any more than I do anyone else...)

...yet you have attached that label to me as a member of the majority. Which one is the one making a judgment based on the cultural differences here? Hmm...

If it doesn't apply to you rsc2a then don't take umbrage.  I know there are exceptions or I would have never become IFB and I also assumed you were one of those exceptions.  So I was making a judgment and it was correct. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]If it doesn't apply to you rsc2a then don't take umbrage.  I know there are exceptions or I would have never become IFB and I also assumed you were one of those exceptions.  So I was making a judgment and it was correct.  [/quote]

Ahh...so it's okay to negatively stereotype entire groups of people as long as you acknowledge exceptions? In fact, you could just say you are "making a judgment". I'm guessing you'd be upset if certain groups stereotyped other groups just so long as they allowed for the occasional exception.

 

[graceandtruth]

[quote author=graceandtruth]If it doesn't apply to you rsc2a then don't take umbrage.  I know there are exceptions or I would have never become IFB and I also assumed you were one of those exceptions.  So I was making a judgment and it was correct. 

Ahh...so it's okay to negatively stereotype entire groups of people as long as you acknowledge exceptions? In fact, you could just say you are "making a judgment". I'm guessing you'd be upset if certain groups stereotyped other groups just so long as they allowed for the occasional exception.
[/quote]

Nope....I got over that a long time ago because I experience it all the time.  It is what it is.  I do try to inform them of the error in their stereotype.  Seldom do they really listen but those who do usually have an "I never knew that" or "I never looked at it that way" moment.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]If it doesn't apply to you rsc2a then don't take umbrage.  I know there are exceptions or I would have never become IFB and I also assumed you were one of those exceptions.  So I was making a judgment and it was correct. 

Ahh...so it's okay to negatively stereotype entire groups of people as long as you acknowledge exceptions? In fact, you could just say you are "making a judgment". I'm guessing you'd be upset if certain groups stereotyped other groups just so long as they allowed for the occasional exception.

Nope....I got over that a long time ago because I experience it all the time.  It is what it is.  I do try to inform them of the error in their stereotype.  Seldom do they really listen but those who do usually have an "I never knew that" or "I never looked at it that way" moment.[/quote]

Then why are you stereotyping entire groups of people?

 

[graceandtruth]

[quote author=graceandtruth]If it doesn't apply to you rsc2a then don't take umbrage.  I know there are exceptions or I would have never become IFB and I also assumed you were one of those exceptions.  So I was making a judgment and it was correct. 

Ahh...so it's okay to negatively stereotype entire groups of people as long as you acknowledge exceptions? In fact, you could just say you are "making a judgment". I'm guessing you'd be upset if certain groups stereotyped other groups just so long as they allowed for the occasional exception.

Nope....I got over that a long time ago because I experience it all the time.  It is what it is.  I do try to inform them of the error in their stereotype.  Seldom do they really listen but those who do usually have an "I never knew that" or "I never looked at it that way" moment.

Then why are you stereotyping entire groups of people?
[/quote]

Nothing is true for all members of any group.  I am simply pointing out what I have seen and experienced.  I would think my experience would be as valid as anyone else's ..... right.

 

[graceandtruth]

Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well. 

Do me a favor rsc2a.  Take this quote that you take umbrage with and ask several of your African-American friends to be completely honest with you and tell you if they agree with this statement or do they think it is completely off base and let me know what you get.  You may be surprised.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]Nothing is true for all members of any group.  I am simply pointing out what I have seen and experienced.  I would think my experience would be as valid as anyone else's ..... right.
[/quote]

Holy contradiction, Batman!

 

[rsc2a]

Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well. 

Do me a favor rsc2a.  Take this quote that you take umbrage with and ask several of your African-American friends to be completely honest with you and tell you if they agree with this statement or do they think it is completely off base and let me know what you get.  You may be surprised.

Actually many of the folks I know that you are referring to have ran from their upbringing. It's a discussion that they and I have had before. There is something about prison, "baby-daddies" and a culture (not skin color!) that celebrates entitlements that disgusts them. They moved out of the hood the first chance they got. Of course, there are also the ones I know who still live in the hood but stay away from drugs and gangs...and they don't seem to have many of the the "hood" problems.

On the other hand, close family members have ran from their upbringing and I now have a whole pile of bi-"racial" kinfolk. And, I'll tell you point blank, that those kids have it a whole lot easier than they would have had it twenty years ago.

 

[graceandtruth]

Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well. 

Do me a favor rsc2a.  Take this quote that you take umbrage with and ask several of your African-American friends to be completely honest with you and tell you if they agree with this statement or do they think it is completely off base and let me know what you get.  You may be surprised.

Actually many of the folks I know that you are referring to have ran from their upbringing. It's a discussion that they and I have had before. There is something about prison, "baby-daddies" and a culture (not skin color!) that celebrates entitlements that disgusts them. They moved out of the hood the first chance they got. Of course, there are also the ones I know who still live in the hood but stay away from drugs and gangs...and they don't seem to have many of the the "hood" problems.

On the other hand, close family members have ran from their upbringing and I now have a whole pile of bi-"racial" kinfolk. And, I'll tell you point blank, that those kids have it a whole lot easier than they would have had it twenty years ago.

Well I choose to engage the people in this culture with the Gospel.  I too do not like the prison, "baby-daddies", entitlements, drugs, and gangs but I choose to try to help them with the gospel, education, and the example of a family that is doing it correctly.  The Gospel has removed the option of flight for me.

I only have one bi-racial grandson but there is potential for more since my daughter married a Euro-American in January and I could possibly have a nephew with my brother and his wife.  My daughter-in-law also commented that she was unaware that so many people were so prejudice until her and my son got back to America. 

Now go ahead and ask the question.

I laughed when I saw "entitlements".  it always seems to pop up in these types of conversations.  My wife and I were just talking last night about how our grandparents adamantly opposed these entitlements and often lived on little or nothing because they knew the entitlements were just an effort to make them "slaves" by becoming dependent on these handouts that are designed to make sure they are not a hand-up.