Can you be a "Gay Christian?"

[Castor Muscular]

No where in Scripture does it indicate that the effects of salvation on the life of a person cannot be seen.  As a matter of fact, the opposite was true in the early church.  This is a peculiar time when people want to be considered Christians though no one can tell them from those who are not Christians.  This is just a little different than NT Christianity.

NT Christianity included people who were having sex with their father's wife and proud of it.  In fact, based on all the repeated warnings about sexual immorality (and the letter to the church of Thyatira in Revelation), I think a LOT of sexual immorality was going on. 

NT Christianity included Christians suing each other.

NT Christianity included gossips and busybodies.

NT Christianity included people getting drunk at the Lord's supper.

NT Christianity included people inconsiderately eating up all the food before others arrived. 

NT Christianity included idolaters.

NT Christianity included egotists and self-appointed elites who looked down on others because of their inferior "gifts". 

NT Christianity included Christians who denied the resurrection.

NT Christianity included freeloaders who didn't want to work.

NT Christianity included Christians who were eager to return to a works-based salvation.

NT Christianity included Christians who took pleasure in the destruction of others. 

And so on...

I think you have a distorted view of NT Christianity.  Maybe it's "Good Old Days" syndrome.

 

[graceandtruth]

No where in Scripture does it indicate that the effects of salvation on the life of a person cannot be seen.  As a matter of fact, the opposite was true in the early church.  This is a peculiar time when people want to be considered Christians though no one can tell them from those who are not Christians.  This is just a little different than NT Christianity.

NT Christianity included people who were having sex with their father's wife and proud of it.  In fact, based on all the repeated warnings about sexual immorality (and the letter to the church of Thyatira in Revelation), I think a LOT of sexual immorality was going on. 

NT Christianity included Christians suing each other.

NT Christianity included gossips and busybodies.

NT Christianity included people getting drunk at the Lord's supper.

NT Christianity included people inconsiderately eating up all the food before others arrived. 

NT Christianity included idolaters.

NT Christianity included egotists and self-appointed elites who looked down on others because of their inferior "gifts". 

NT Christianity included Christians who denied the resurrection.

NT Christianity included freeloaders who didn't want to work.

NT Christianity included Christians who were eager to return to a works-based salvation.

NT Christianity included Christians who took pleasure in the destruction of others. 

And so on...

I think you have a distorted view of NT Christianity.  Maybe it's "Good Old Days" syndrome.

"Good Old Days" syndrome.......Probably not.....Jim Crow was not Good Old Days for some.

You may have a distorted view if you don't see that Scripture was written to end this behavior among those professing to be Christians not to congratulate them and encourage them in this behavior.  Your list is a list of behaviors that Scripture teaches the Gospel makes unnatural for Christians.

 

[Castor Muscular]

You may have a distorted view if you don't see that Scripture was written to end this behavior among those professing to be Christians not to congratulate them and encourage them in this behavior. 

I don't know where you get the nerve to even introduce that possibility.  I clearly stated that Paul reprimanded them for their behavior.  But he did NOT say they weren't really Christians. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

"Good Old Days" syndrome.......Probably not.....Jim Crow was not Good Old Days for some.

Ah, yes, the pride of the Democrats -- Jim Crow laws. 

 

[HereIStand]

It may be that some people have an impulse towards being gay, but they have a choice of whether to act on it or not. To be a Christian, a person can not act on it. Sadly, there is increasing media pressure on Christians to cave in on this issue. It seems any moral objection to homosexuality (or acting on the desire) is labelled as bigotry. 

Exactly.

All people have a natural tendency to sinful thoughts and acts.  These include homosexuality and many others.  Conversion makes these tendencies to sin unnatural including homosexuality, lying, etc.  I would question the salvation of the person who rejects the clear teaching of Scripture to engage in or validate their "natural" sinful desires regardless of if it is gluttony, drunkenness, or homosexuality.

The question in the OP was not can a person struggle with the sin of homosexuality as a Christian. In that case, someone would recognize what he is doing as sin and strive to repent. The OP question was about someone who sees nothing wrong with homosexuality from a Christian standpoint, but still considers himself a good Christian. Clearly that can't be the case from Scripture.

Also, while all sin is sin, on a practical level many people (including non-Christians) would see some sins -- such as drunkenness -- to be harmful at least if they become a habit. On the other hand, homosexuality is not only seen as not harmful, but as something to be celebrated. Or at least that is what is being pushed by secular media. 

 

[christundivided]

I didn't say my friend was male.

Stop using your own definition of "eunuch". I had no reason to believe you referenced a "male".

No I'm not. I think it bothers you when I state the fact that some people are born gay. And that's ok.

I haven't refused it. I just restrict how often that happens. I believe its rare.

I'm grateful you haven't either. In fact, when you do experience some things that affect many people, the Holy Spirit tends to change your outlook on those things. Do those "genetic abnormalities" surprise God? How is that "genetic abnormality" any different than the "genetic abnormality" of sin we are ALL born into?

Sin is not a genetic abnormality. It might cause a genetic abnormality. There is a difference.

Yes, my friend was born that way. They would be hetro if they could. It is just not there, so they give it to God because He created them the way He did for a specific purpose. . .to bring the maximum glory to Himself.

You ignore the new creation in Christ Jesus. That is the purpose of God's in creation. Not when someone is born a certain way.

Like I said, I think we'd be surprised. 

Probably not.

*blink blink* Do you practice reading comprehension or even read what you write?

Do you care to elaborate or do you enjoy being vague?

If you're trying to say a eunuch is a "male" being born with "female" genitals (lesbian)... then you're a few bricks short of load.

 

[graceandtruth]

"Good Old Days" syndrome.......Probably not.....Jim Crow was not Good Old Days for some.

Ah, yes, the pride of the Democrats -- Jim Crow laws.

You are right.  The pride of the Democrats and the secret love of the Republicans.

Never the less not "Good Old Days".

 

[Castor Muscular]

You are right.  The pride of the Democrats and the secret love of the Republicans.

Never the less not "Good Old Days".

How do you know what Republicans secretly love?  ESP?  (I'm not a Republican, by the way.)

Also, who said, "I’ll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

That's right.  Famous Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson.  And so far, he's been right.  I'm bewildered as to why African Americans mostly vote Democrat, but they do. 

 

[graceandtruth]

You are right.  The pride of the Democrats and the secret love of the Republicans.

Never the less not "Good Old Days".

How do you know what Republicans secretly love?  ESP?  (I'm not a Republican, by the way.)

Also, who said, "I’ll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

That's right.  Famous Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson.  And so far, he's been right.  I'm bewildered as to why African Americans mostly vote Democrat, but they do. 

They probably vote Democratic because of the way those who openly support Republican candidates act and treat them.  I have to use my ESP again since I don't know when was the last time I voted for a Democratic candidate since Edwards ran for governor in LA against the republican candidate David Duke, Grand Wizard of the KKK......Maybe fielding candidates with that type of affiliation is what motivates African-Americans to vote for Democrats like Edwards.

I would say it is the secret love of the Republicans since they missed it so much that they repackaged it as the "war on drugs".  (By the way I am not a Republican or a Democrat but a Christian). 

 

[Castor Muscular]

I have to use my ESP again since I don't know when was the last time I voted for a Democratic candidate since Edwards ran for governor in LA against the republican candidate David Duke, Grand Wizard of the KKK......Maybe fielding candidates with that type of affiliation is what motivates African-Americans to vote for Democrats like Edwards.

You mean like Robert Byrd?  A recruiter for the KKK?  Except Byrd was welcomed by the Democrat party, unlike David Duke, who was repudiated by the Republican party.  Even Bill Clinton tried to justify Byrd's association with the KKK after Byrd died by saying he was just a good ol' boy trying to get elected.  Byrd eventually repented of his KKK role and philosophy.  Not so, Duke, as far as I know, which makes him a pathetic human being. 

I'm not a Republican or Democrat, either, but on the whole, I find the Democrat party to be ultra-racist and obsessed with racial identity.  I do not see the same in the Republican party.  I have a lot of Republican friends and I don't know of any Republicans who want to suppress ANY votes.  They do want to stop dead people, cartoon characters and illegal aliens from voting.  So do I. 

I don't see what the war on drugs has to do with anything, although I'm not a fan of the war on drugs, myself.  Maybe you'll enlighten me. 

 

[raised2walk]

I didn't say my friend was male.

Stop using your own definition of "eunuch". I had no reason to believe you referenced a "male".

No I'm not. I think it bothers you when I state the fact that some people are born gay. And that's ok.

I haven't refused it. I just restrict how often that happens. I believe its rare.

I'm grateful you haven't either. In fact, when you do experience some things that affect many people, the Holy Spirit tends to change your outlook on those things. Do those "genetic abnormalities" surprise God? How is that "genetic abnormality" any different than the "genetic abnormality" of sin we are ALL born into?

Sin is not a genetic abnormality. It might cause a genetic abnormality. There is a difference.

Yes, my friend was born that way. They would be hetro if they could. It is just not there, so they give it to God because He created them the way He did for a specific purpose. . .to bring the maximum glory to Himself.

You ignore the new creation in Christ Jesus. That is the purpose of God's in creation. Not when someone is born a certain way.

Like I said, I think we'd be surprised. 

Probably not.

*blink blink* Do you practice reading comprehension or even read what you write?

Do you care to elaborate or do you enjoy being vague?

If you're trying to say a eunuch is a "male" being born with "female" genitals (lesbian)... then you're a few bricks short of load.

 

[graceandtruth]

I have to use my ESP again since I don't know when was the last time I voted for a Democratic candidate since Edwards ran for governor in LA against the republican candidate David Duke, Grand Wizard of the KKK......Maybe fielding candidates with that type of affiliation is what motivates African-Americans to vote for Democrats like Edwards.

You mean like Robert Byrd?  A recruiter for the KKK?  Except Byrd was welcomed by the Democrat party, unlike David Duke, who was repudiated by the Republican party.  Even Bill Clinton tried to justify Byrd's association with the KKK after Byrd died by saying he was just a good ol' boy trying to get elected.  Byrd eventually repented of his KKK role and philosophy.  Not so, Duke, as far as I know, which makes him a pathetic human being. 

I'm not a Republican or Democrat, either, but on the whole, I find the Democrat party to be ultra-racist and obsessed with racial identity.  I do not see the same in the Republican party.  I have a lot of Republican friends and I don't know of any Republicans who want to suppress ANY votes.  They do want to stop dead people, cartoon characters and illegal aliens from voting.  So do I. 

I don't see what the war on drugs has to do with anything, although I'm not a fan of the war on drugs, myself.  Maybe you'll enlighten me.

I think it is the Republican party that has been termed "the party of old white men".  Both parties are equally guilty of dishonesty at the polls.

Check out "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander.  It will provide you with a substantial amount of additional reading material that will help to enlighten you.

 

[Castor Muscular]

I think it is the Republican party that has been termed "the party of old white men". 

Yeah, so?  The term was given to Republicans by their opponents.  I just called Democrats ultra-racists.  That doesn't make it true (although I think it is). 

I do agree that both Democrats and Republicans are dishonest.  I trust no politicians.  However, most Democrat policies are demonstrably evil.  That's not true of Republican policies.  Dang, Democrats even booed God at their convention, and the speaker had to ignore the actual vote to get God back into the platform.  The vast majority voted against putting God back in the platform. 

Hey, you want to vote Democrat, by all means, do.  You'll get what you deserve. 

 

[graceandtruth]

I think it is the Republican party that has been termed "the party of old white men". 

Yeah, so?  The term was given to Republicans by their opponents.  I just called Democrats ultra-racists.  That doesn't make it true (although I think it is). 

I do agree that both Democrats and Republicans are dishonest.  I trust no politicians.  However, most Democrat policies are demonstrably evil.  That's not true of Republican policies.  Dang, Democrats even booed God at their convention, and the speaker had to ignore the actual vote to get God back into the platform.  The vast majority voted against putting God back in the platform. 

Hey, you want to vote Democrat, by all means, do.  You'll get what you deserve.

I haven't voted Democrat since Duke ran against Edwards but it seems I am still getting what I deserve--Democrats oppressing through entitlements and Republicans oppressing through disenfranchising.  Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well.  All I can do is HOPE for CHANGE...........LOL.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well.[/quote]

How much of that hostility is based on cultural differences, boy crying wolf,  and/or self-inflicted?

 

[graceandtruth]

[quote author=graceandtruth]Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well.

How much of that hostility is based on cultural differences, boy crying wolf,  and/or self-inflicted?
[/quote]

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well.

How much of that hostility is based on cultural differences, boy crying wolf,  and/or self-inflicted?

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.[/quote]

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :

 

[graceandtruth]

[quote author=graceandtruth]Our nation has always been quite a hostile environment for certain people groups and continues that tradition to this day.  The sad part is that the American church has largely supported this in all its incarnations or remained silent and that tradition continues as well.

How much of that hostility is based on cultural differences, boy crying wolf,  and/or self-inflicted?

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :
[/quote]

No sir.  There is not crushing the minority any more.  There is generating increase hostility on both sides.  It closes the path of honest, equal dialogue and keeps resolution and reconciliation from occurring.  :'(

 

[rsc2a]

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :

No sir.  There is not crushing the minority any more.  There is generating increase hostility on both sides.  It closes the path of honest, equal dialogue and keeps resolution and reconciliation from occurring.  :'(

Increased hostility like you displayed in the above post towards those in the majority?

 

[graceandtruth]

Much of it is based on cultural differences.  Unfortunately, those in the minority culture are automatically suspect or forced to attempt to prove that their view is valid to someone looking at life from a totally different perspective under totally different conditions while being accused of crying wolf and inflicting their own wounds.

Yes...because there aren't negative associated with every culture out there and all of the accusations of crying wolf and self-inflicted wounds are just examples of the majority doing everything to crush the minority.  :

No sir.  There is not crushing the minority any more.  There is generating increase hostility on both sides.  It closes the path of honest, equal dialogue and keeps resolution and reconciliation from occurring.  :'(

Increased hostility like you displayed in the above post towards those in the majority?

No sir.  It is not hostility to state the facts.  This is the reason that honest and equal dialogue cannot be established.  When someone in the minority points out the problems they see it is taken as hostility instead of honest criticism.  This would relegate my view to emotion instead of reason and effectively invalidates my view.  When this happens dialogue becomes a monologue and neither the majority or minority groups learn anything and nothing changes--no reconciliation and no resolution.