Can you be a "Gay Christian?"

[raised2walk]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

*sigh*

The Bible says some are born eunuchs. I believe my friend falls into this category. And I believe it is more common than you think. My friend does not flaunt their orientation, because they walk circumspectly in the light of Christ and Christ strengthens them. My friend knows it is God's will that they never be married NOR have a physical relationship with a person of the same sex, and is content; because just like you and alcoholism, God keeps their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. This does not remove their homosexuality. They are STILL homosexual. Why? Because God created them that way to bring the most glory to Himself.

Your friend would be considered an anomaly among homosexuals. Most homosexuals if they knew what a eunuch was wouldn't or couldn't identify as one because there is less emphasis on sexuality when one is a eunuch - there may be a sexual desire but it is not that strong because of the lack of testosterone.  Most eunuchs historically were not sexual (asexual) any ways.

Maybe so. I still believe we would be surprised at how many non-practicing homosexual Christians we come into contact with, unknowingly. Who would want to be honest in an environment that lumps them ALL together as hellbound pervs? Whether we like it or not, some are indeed born that way. It was hard for me to accept until I encountered it firsthand in the form of my friend.

 

[raised2walk]

With all due respect. Unless your friend was born without any sex organs at all or is physically impotent from his mother's womb, your friend wasn't born a eunuch.

I didn't say my friend was male.

I am all for grace and I marvel at how Act 8 opposes Deut 23:1 but you're taking your beliefs into "murky" waters.

No I'm not. I think it bothers you when I state the fact that some people are born gay. And that's ok.

I am grateful that I haven't personally experienced some things that affect many people in this life. I'm not being high minded nor do I believe myself to be any better than anyone else. I do believe in genetic abnormalities that produce a natural inclination that might lend some to be homosexual/lesbian. Those who willingly choose to live a life of celibacy for the glory of God should be commended. Yet, there are many that claim this that just can't reasonably make such claims. Maybe your friend can but I wouldn't say he was "born that way". Maybe some are, but I believe there are very few that can make an honest claim on being "born that way".

I'm grateful you haven't either. In fact, when you do experience some things that affect many people, the Holy Spirit tends to change your outlook on those things. Do those "genetic abnormalities" surprise God? How is that "genetic abnormality" any different than the "genetic abnormality" of sin we are ALL born into?

Yes, my friend was born that way. They would be hetro if they could. It is just not there, so they give it to God because He created them the way He did for a specific purpose. . .to bring the maximum glory to Himself.

Its very rare.

Like I said, I think we'd be surprised. 

 

[brianb]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

*sigh*

The Bible says some are born eunuchs. I believe my friend falls into this category. And I believe it is more common than you think. My friend does not flaunt their orientation, because they walk circumspectly in the light of Christ and Christ strengthens them. My friend knows it is God's will that they never be married NOR have a physical relationship with a person of the same sex, and is content; because just like you and alcoholism, God keeps their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. This does not remove their homosexuality. They are STILL homosexual. Why? Because God created them that way to bring the most glory to Himself.

With all due respect. Unless your friend was born without any sex organs at all or is physically impotent from his mother's womb, your friend wasn't born a eunuch.

I am all for grace and I marvel at how Act 8 opposes Deut 23:1 but you're taking your beliefs into "murky" waters. I am grateful that I haven't personally experienced some things that affect many people in this life. I'm not being high minded nor do I believe myself to be any better than anyone else. I do believe in genetic abnormalities that produce a natural inclination that might lend some to be homosexual/lesbian. Those who willingly choose to live a life of celibacy for the glory of God should be commended. Yet, there are many that claim this that just can't reasonably make such claims. Maybe your friend can but I wouldn't say he was "born that way". Maybe some are, but I believe there are very few that can make an honest claim on being "born that way". Its very rare.

It's pretty hard (no who am I kidding, it's impossible) to know what your sexual preference is at birth.

 

[Castor Muscular]

It's pretty hard (no who am I kidding, it's impossible) to know what your sexual preference is at birth.

I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I liked boobies. 

 

[christundivided]

I didn't say my friend was male.

Stop using your own definition of "eunuch". I had no reason to believe you referenced a "male".

No I'm not. I think it bothers you when I state the fact that some people are born gay. And that's ok.

I haven't refused it. I just restrict how often that happens. I believe its rare.

I'm grateful you haven't either. In fact, when you do experience some things that affect many people, the Holy Spirit tends to change your outlook on those things. Do those "genetic abnormalities" surprise God? How is that "genetic abnormality" any different than the "genetic abnormality" of sin we are ALL born into?

Sin is not a genetic abnormality. It might cause a genetic abnormality. There is a difference.

Yes, my friend was born that way. They would be hetro if they could. It is just not there, so they give it to God because He created them the way He did for a specific purpose. . .to bring the maximum glory to Himself.

You ignore the new creation in Christ Jesus. That is the purpose of God's in creation. Not when someone is born a certain way.

Like I said, I think we'd be surprised. 

Probably not.

 

[christundivided]

It's pretty hard (no who am I kidding, it's impossible) to know what your sexual preference is at birth.

I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I liked boobies.

LOL.... and its not like certain things naturally work a certain way. God "keyed" male and female to work a certain way.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=brianb]Your friend would be considered an anomaly among homosexuals. The term eunuch isn't a good term to apply to homosexuals.[/quote]

I also know a few.

[quote author=brianb]Most homosexuals if they knew what a eunuch was wouldn't or couldn't identify as one because there is less emphasis on sexuality when one is a eunuch - there may be a sexual desire but it is not that strong because of the lack of testosterone.  Most eunuchs historically were not sexual (asexual) any ways.[/quote]

There is a tremendous amount of emphasis on sexuality in the case of eunuchs. Humans are sexual creatures. What there likely isn't is a tremendous amount of sexual activity.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]With all due respect. Unless your friend was born without any sex organs at all or is physically impotent from his mother's womb, your friend wasn't born a eunuch. [/quote]

Of course there is the strange possibility that Jesus was speaking in symbolic terms as He had a habit of doing.

[quote author=christundivided]Yet, there are many that claim this that just can't reasonably make such claims. Maybe your friend can but I wouldn't say he was "born that way". Maybe some are, but I believe there are very few that can make an honest claim on being "born that way". Its very rare.[/quote]

Sources?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]You ignore the new creation in Christ Jesus. That is the purpose of God's in creation. Not when someone is born a certain way. [/quote]

Based on this and other posts you've made, I'm curious: do you hold to some version of Wesleyan Perfectionism?

 

[brianb]

[quote author=christundivided]With all due respect. Unless your friend was born without any sex organs at all or is physically impotent from his mother's womb, your friend wasn't born a eunuch.

Of course there is the strange possibility that Jesus was speaking in symbolic terms as He had a habit of doing.

[quote author=christundivided]Yet, there are many that claim this that just can't reasonably make such claims. Maybe your friend can but I wouldn't say he was "born that way". Maybe some are, but I believe there are very few that can make an honest claim on being "born that way". Its very rare.[/quote]

Sources?
[/quote]

Jesus was responding to his disciples' statement concerning men and marriage. All men cannot receive this saying ("it is not good for the man to marry") save they to whom it is given (Matthew 19:11).

 

[Castor Muscular]

It's pretty hard (no who am I kidding, it's impossible) to know what your sexual preference is at birth.

I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I liked boobies.

LOL.... and its not like certain things naturally work a certain way. God "keyed" male and female to work a certain way.

Technically, baby girls like boobies right off the bat, too.  Maybe that's why men are attracted to lesbians.  They're more "natural". 

 

[Torrent v.3]

It's pretty hard (no who am I kidding, it's impossible) to know what your sexual preference is at birth.

I don't know.  I'm pretty sure I liked boobies.

LOL.... and its not like certain things naturally work a certain way. God "keyed" male and female to work a certain way.

Technically, baby girls like boobies right off the bat, too.  Maybe that's why men are attracted to lesbians.  They're more "natural".

Castor said Boobies.  Is that ok? Can I say that, and if I can, can I say it a hundred times in a row?

 

[HereIStand]

It may be that some people have an impulse towards being gay, but they have a choice of whether to act on it or not. To be a Christian, a person can not act on it. Sadly, there is increasing media pressure on Christians to cave in on this issue. It seems any moral objection to homosexuality (or acting on the desire) is labelled as bigotry.   

 

[Castor Muscular]

Castor said Boobies.  Is that ok? Can I say that, and if I can, can I say it a hundred times in a row?

Of course you can.  Boobies are the answer to all mysteries, including ancient aliens. 

 

[graceandtruth]

It may be that some people have an impulse towards being gay, but they have a choice of whether to act on it or not. To be a Christian, a person can not act on it. Sadly, there is increasing media pressure on Christians to cave in on this issue. It seems any moral objection to homosexuality (or acting on the desire) is labelled as bigotry. 

Exactly.

All people have a natural tendency to sinful thoughts and acts.  These include homosexuality and many others.  Conversion makes these tendencies to sin unnatural including homosexuality, lying, etc.  I would question the salvation of the person who rejects the clear teaching of Scripture to engage in or validate their "natural" sinful desires regardless of if it is gluttony, drunkenness, or homosexuality. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

I would question the salvation of the person who rejects the clear teaching of Scripture to engage in or validate their "natural" sinful desires regardless of if it is gluttony, drunkenness, or homosexuality.

I don't know what it is with this obsession to question the salvation of others.

Paul didn't do that.  He reprimanded people.  When the Corinthians were getting drunk at the Lord's supper, he didn't even tell them not to drink (he basically said, if you're going to get drunk, get drunk at home).  He reprimanded them for dishonoring the Lord's supper, and even told them there could be fatal (sleep) consequences with God. 

But he didn't start tossing about claims they weren't really saved.  That's only something I see repeated here on FFF all the time. 

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Castor Muscular]I don't know what it is with this obsession to question the salvation of others.

Paul didn't do that.  He reprimanded people.  When the Corinthians were getting drunk at the Lord's supper, he didn't even tell them not to drink (he basically said, if you're going to get drunk, get drunk at home).  He reprimanded them for dishonoring the Lord's supper, and even told them there could be fatal (sleep) consequences with God. 

But he didn't start tossing about claims they weren't really saved.  That's only something I see repeated here on FFF all the time. [/quote]

I almost wrote something very similar.

 

[raised2walk]

I didn't say my friend was male.

Stop using your own definition of "eunuch". I had no reason to believe you referenced a "male".

No I'm not. I think it bothers you when I state the fact that some people are born gay. And that's ok.

I haven't refused it. I just restrict how often that happens. I believe its rare.

I'm grateful you haven't either. In fact, when you do experience some things that affect many people, the Holy Spirit tends to change your outlook on those things. Do those "genetic abnormalities" surprise God? How is that "genetic abnormality" any different than the "genetic abnormality" of sin we are ALL born into?

Sin is not a genetic abnormality. It might cause a genetic abnormality. There is a difference.

Yes, my friend was born that way. They would be hetro if they could. It is just not there, so they give it to God because He created them the way He did for a specific purpose. . .to bring the maximum glory to Himself.

You ignore the new creation in Christ Jesus. That is the purpose of God's in creation. Not when someone is born a certain way.

Like I said, I think we'd be surprised. 

Probably not.

*blink blink* Do you practice reading comprehension or even read what you write?

 

[graceandtruth]

I would question the salvation of the person who rejects the clear teaching of Scripture to engage in or validate their "natural" sinful desires regardless of if it is gluttony, drunkenness, or homosexuality.

I don't know what it is with this obsession to question the salvation of others.

Paul didn't do that.  He reprimanded people.  When the Corinthians were getting drunk at the Lord's supper, he didn't even tell them not to drink (he basically said, if you're going to get drunk, get drunk at home).  He reprimanded them for dishonoring the Lord's supper, and even told them there could be fatal (sleep) consequences with God. 

But he didn't start tossing about claims they weren't really saved.  That's only something I see repeated here on FFF all the time.

How does one determine if a person is a perspective for marriage or not without some sort of evaluation of their claims of salvation?  How do we know which part of 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 applies?  No where in Scripture does it indicate that the effects of salvation on the life of a person cannot be seen.  As a matter of fact, the opposite was true in the early church.  This is a peculiar time when people want to be considered Christians though no one can tell them from those who are not Christians.  This is just a little different than NT Christianity.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=graceandtruth]This is a peculiar time when people want to be considered Christians though no one can tell them from those who are not Republicans.[/quote]

Fixed. 

[quote author=graceandtruth]This is just a little different than NT Christianity.[/quote]

Truth.