Can you be a "Gay Christian?"

[rsc2a]

Yes. Yes you can.

I think you are conveniently grouping all gay people as having a choice. I propose to you that some do not have a choice, and are actually *gasp* born gay. Yes, some gay people are gay by choice, and acting out of rebellion, shock-factor, or whatever. But, there are some who are not.

I view a gay person who is a Christian the same as any other single/unmarried/celibate Christian.

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

I believe you are talking about action where R2W is talking about inclination.

You're wrong as usual. I am talking about both.

So you judge people based on their temptations? Furthermore, you want to execute people based on those temptations. God grant that He shows you more mercy than you show others.

 

[christundivided]

Yes. Yes you can.

I think you are conveniently grouping all gay people as having a choice. I propose to you that some do not have a choice, and are actually *gasp* born gay. Yes, some gay people are gay by choice, and acting out of rebellion, shock-factor, or whatever. But, there are some who are not.

I view a gay person who is a Christian the same as any other single/unmarried/celibate Christian.

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

I believe you are talking about action where R2W is talking about inclination.

You're wrong as usual. I am talking about both.

So you judge people based on their temptations? Furthermore, you want to execute people based on those temptations. God grant that He shows you more mercy than you show others.

How in the world you turned inclination into temptation is beyond me. Inclination does not equal endless temptation. You're constantly looking to start a fight with me. Go away. You're a dishonest hack. Go smell some other place up,

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]How in the world you turned inclination into temptation is beyond me.[/quote]

Would you like me to provide definitions for these two words?

[quote author=christundivided]Inclination does not equal endless temptation.[/quote]

I know of no one anywhere in all of history who had any endless temptations. In fact, this mention by you is the first time anyone has even suggested it in this thread.

[quote author=christundivided]You're constantly looking to start a fight with me. Go away. You're a dishonest hack. Go smell some other place up,[/quote]

Actually, I was explaining where I thought the differences between your and R2W's stance was. You're the one that turned that explanation into a statement on your support of execution for people suffering temptation.

 

[Castor Muscular]

How in the world you turned inclination into temptation is beyond me.

They are quite related.  If you are inclined to be attracted to brunette women, then you are open to being tempted by brunette women.  If you are a woman who is inclined to be attracted to brunette women, then you are open to being tempted by brunette women. 

Or, to put it the other way, you are unlikely to be tempted by anything for which you have no inclination. 

 

[rsc2a]

Temptation cannot exist without the concurrence of inclination and opportunity. - E.H. Chapin

In the context of religion, temptation is the inclination to sin. - Wikipedia

In our members there is a slumbering inclination toward desire, which is both sudden and fierce. With irresistible power desire seizes master over the flesh. All at once a secret, smouldering fire is kindled. The flesh burns and is in flames. It makes no difference whether it is sexual desire, or ambition, or vanity, or desire for revenge, or love of fame and power, or greed for money... - Bonhoeffer

The first stage of temptation is inclination. - Central Baptist Theological Seminary website

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[christundivided]

How in the world you turned inclination into temptation is beyond me.

They are quite related.  If you are inclined to be attracted to brunette women, then you are open to being tempted by brunette women.  If you are a woman who is inclined to be attracted to brunette women, then you are open to being tempted by brunette women. 

Or, to put it the other way, you are unlikely to be tempted by anything for which you have no inclination.

Castor.... You may prefer Brunettes but don't tell me "brunette hair" is actually what "tempts" you when it comes to women. To say inclination and temptation are one in the same is just plain silly. They are not synonyms. Inclination is generally considered a synonym of attraction. You can be attracted/inclined to "something" and not be "tempted" to commit sin.

Either way, When I said I was speaking of both. I included my first response. Those in Christ have a helper. This "helper" empowers them to rise "above" such things. They are no longer subject to such "inclination" beyond divine "help" to oppose them.

 

[christundivided]

Temptation cannot exist without the concurrence of inclination and opportunity. - E.H. Chapin

This is the last time I will respond to you.

Inclination can exist without temptation. Don't cloudy the water you blathering hack.

 

[rsc2a]

Temptation cannot exist without the concurrence of inclination and opportunity. - E.H. Chapin

This is the last time I will respond to you.

Inclination can exist without temptation. Don't cloudy the water you blathering hack.

Ahhh...even worse. You don't want to execute folks based on what they are tempted by. You want to execute them based on what they have an inclination to be tempted by.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Castor.... You may prefer Brunettes

Actually, I am inclined to prefer long, straight, black hair. 

If that was a sin, then I'd be in big trouble. 

 

[rsc2a]

Castor.... You may prefer Brunettes

Actually, I am inclined to prefer long, straight, black hair. 

If that was a sin, then I'd be in big trouble.

You definitely deserve to be executed for it.

 

[MrsRow]

i know that lying is sin, i accept and see lying in the same way, as much as i am able, as God sees lying. 
I'm not going around trying to prove that i am innocent of all lies because i was born a liar.
I hate when i lie, i wish i didnt do it, but sometimes i do and i ask God to forgive me and i try to forsake it.
It's a daily crucifying of the flesh and i'm not too good at it most of the time.

Gays dont even see homosexuality as a sin.
They aren't on the same page as God about sin.

What i see A LOT w/ gays is.. they dont even believe that God feels homosexuality is a sin.
They are proud of their sin.
Gays are either trying to prove that the Bible is full of nonsense, is a fairytale book that they want to burn and do away with or that we're not interpreting Gods word correctly.

I have never met a homosexual person who viewed sodomy the same way God views it.

 

[raised2walk]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

 

[brianb]

I don't even identify myself as a straight Christian. Why? Because adjective Christianity is not scriptural. I'm just a Christian. It's a separate identity from what I am in the flesh. My identity in the flesh is insignificant in comparison.

 

[christundivided]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

 

[christundivided]

I don't even identify myself as a straight Christian. Why? Because adjective Christianity is not scriptural. I'm just a Christian. It's a separate identity from what I am in the flesh. My identity in the flesh is insignificant in comparison.

Gal 2:20 and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God

 

[raised2walk]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

*sigh*

The Bible says some are born eunuchs. I believe my friend falls into this category. And I believe it is more common than you think. My friend does not flaunt their orientation, because they walk circumspectly in the light of Christ and Christ strengthens them. My friend knows it is God's will that they never be married NOR have a physical relationship with a person of the same sex, and is content; because just like you and alcoholism, God keeps their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. This does not remove their homosexuality. They are STILL homosexual. Why? Because God created them that way to bring the most glory to Himself.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Respectively, I think the OP has produced talking at each other rather than talking to each other...as is common in interacting with rsc2a in my experience.

Can sinners be Christians?
Yes, duh!

The question(s) in the evangelical environment of today:
Is homosexual activity a sin?
Can practicing homosexuals be in a right relationship with God....while practicing/living the homosexual lifestyle?

To me the Biblical answer is 'NO'!

 

[brianb]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

*sigh*

The Bible says some are born eunuchs. I believe my friend falls into this category. And I believe it is more common than you think. My friend does not flaunt their orientation, because they walk circumspectly in the light of Christ and Christ strengthens them. My friend knows it is God's will that they never be married NOR have a physical relationship with a person of the same sex, and is content; because just like you and alcoholism, God keeps their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. This does not remove their homosexuality. They are STILL homosexual. Why? Because God created them that way to bring the most glory to Himself.

Your friend would be considered an anomaly among homosexuals. The term eunuch isn't a good term to apply to homosexuals. Most homosexuals if they knew what a eunuch was wouldn't or couldn't identify as one because there is less emphasis on sexuality when one is a eunuch - there may be a sexual desire but it is not that strong because of the lack of testosterone.  Most eunuchs historically were not sexual (asexual) any ways.

 

[raised2walk]

Respectively, I think the OP has produced talking at each other rather than talking to each other...as is common in interacting with rsc2a in my experience.

Can sinners be Christians?
Yes, duh!

The question(s) in the evangelical environment of today:
Is homosexual activity a sin?
Can practicing homosexuals be in a right relationship with God....while practicing/living the homosexual lifestyle?

To me the Biblical answer is 'NO'!

'NO!' to both of your questions?

 

[christundivided]

View it however you want. The real question is how God views it.

I see you provided no evidence at all. Provided SOMETHING besides you're own personal preference.

By the way, I was born a drunk, whore-monger, pimp, thief and a liar. I have never claimed what I was "born with" was alright with God. Everyone has a choice. Being born a certain way doesn't remove your choices in life. I'm pretty sure some people are predisposed to pedophilia. That doesn't change my view of a pedophile. Hang em all.

Show me where I have said homosexuality was/is "alright with God." Aw, see? You can't.

Even a person who is born a homosexual has a "choice" to follow Christ through the renewing of the Holy Spirit, or resist. Just like you, as an alcoholic, have a choice to follow God or resist Him. Just because they are not practicing homosexual activity does not mean they are not tempted, just like you, as an alcoholic, desire the effects of alcohol. Because you desire a drink, does that mean you are not regenerate? No. It is the exact same with a homosexual. I know one. They are not "practicing" and are every OUNCE a Christian as you are. Just because they are not practicing doesn't magically take away the temptation, it is a thorn they will live with for the rest of their life. I admire them for their stand. If you would open your eyes, you would too.

The Bible does speak of eunuchs. Look it up.

I didn't take your response to be such. Sorry. I do agree to a point. Even though I do believe that such people are few and far between. I honestly believe, for the most part, that homosexuality is pretty much a "fad". Most that claim to "homosexual" are actually "bisexual". Homosexuality is nothing more than a means to express "control" over someone. Some people enjoy degrading others. Its common in many homosexual relationships.

I don't have to look-up the "eunuchs" verse you referenced. I know what it says. Are you really saying these "homosexuals" you know make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom of God? Even the Catholics are giving up on doing such.

*sigh*

The Bible says some are born eunuchs. I believe my friend falls into this category. And I believe it is more common than you think. My friend does not flaunt their orientation, because they walk circumspectly in the light of Christ and Christ strengthens them. My friend knows it is God's will that they never be married NOR have a physical relationship with a person of the same sex, and is content; because just like you and alcoholism, God keeps their heart and mind in Christ Jesus. This does not remove their homosexuality. They are STILL homosexual. Why? Because God created them that way to bring the most glory to Himself.

With all due respect. Unless your friend was born without any sex organs at all or is physically impotent from his mother's womb, your friend wasn't born a eunuch.

I am all for grace and I marvel at how Act 8 opposes Deut 23:1 but you're taking your beliefs into "murky" waters. I am grateful that I haven't personally experienced some things that affect many people in this life. I'm not being high minded nor do I believe myself to be any better than anyone else. I do believe in genetic abnormalities that produce a natural inclination that might lend some to be homosexual/lesbian. Those who willingly choose to live a life of celibacy for the glory of God should be commended. Yet, there are many that claim this that just can't reasonably make such claims. Maybe your friend can but I wouldn't say he was "born that way". Maybe some are, but I believe there are very few that can make an honest claim on being "born that way". Its very rare.