Calling all pastors!

[Frag]

I laughed out loud..............

I'm glad you find hypocrisy FUNNY. Why do you laugh at Frag doing exactly what he is condemning in me?

Look, we're are laughing at YOU!
You are hypocritical in your judgment.
Your are judgemental in your hypocrisy.
You are ignorant of basic Bible facts!
You are clueless when it comes to Pastors and Pastoring!
You have no idea about church polity!

You are funny....ha...ha...and funny i.e. odd.....

You offer advice and criticism of a Pastor and a church...yet your experience is Pastoring a church that closed or was buried because it died a merciful death....under your watchful, all knowing leadership!

Somebody say Bwaaaaaaaaaaaah!

TB, you are killing me.......

 

[Sherryh]

TB who ?

 

[Mathew Ward]

LOL. It always comes down to this doesn't it. If anyone questions the actions of a "pastor"... they're branded a "gossiper" a person who "judges" other people. Yet, these same pastors will question anyone and anything they want to question. After all....they're just "standing against sin". Don't you just love it. What a double standard.

Are you seriously suggesting that churches should split just like Paul and Barnabas did? One of them was right and the other was wrong. Do we hear anymore from Barnabas? You don't even know that the Mark mentioned in 2 Timothy is the same John Mark you think he is...

Where did I say that if you question the actions of a pastor you are a gossiper?  Please do not stereotype me.  Where did I ask for a double standard?

The church did not split, the missionaries did.  One was ministry oriented while the other was people oriented. 

So which one was right?

Why are you so sure it isn't the same one?

 

[Pastor Marty]

So a church starts in God's will.  Calls a pastor in God's will.  Shuts down in God's will.

But if a pastor goes to one church in God's will he cannot go to another church, because you cannot find an example in the scriptures.

Where is the example in scriptures that show a church shutting down?


I don't doubt that there are hirelings in the ministry.  I don't doubt there are servants of God in the ministry.  I also don't doubt that each will answer to God for their choices of what they believe is God's leading.  Since they will face God, I will keep my focus on Christ.

Just my .02 cents

Yup and Amen

 

[christundivided]

LOL. It always comes down to this doesn't it. If anyone questions the actions of a "pastor"... they're branded a "gossiper" a person who "judges" other people. Yet, these same pastors will question anyone and anything they want to question. After all....they're just "standing against sin". Don't you just love it. What a double standard.

Are you seriously suggesting that churches should split just like Paul and Barnabas did? One of them was right and the other was wrong. Do we hear anymore from Barnabas? You don't even know that the Mark mentioned in 2 Timothy is the same John Mark you think he is...

Where did I say that if you question the actions of a pastor you are a gossiper?  Please do not stereotype me.  Where did I ask for a double standard?

The church did not split, the missionaries did.  One was ministry oriented while the other was people oriented. 

So which one was right?

Why are you so sure it isn't the same one?

My statement was a general statement and not necessarily reflective of your own personal belief. What I said was true. Pastors have no problems questioning anything and everything. When they themselves fall under scrutiny.... they tend to automatically play the "gossip" card.

Our conversation involved the splitting of a church. You then mentioned "Paul and Barnabas" as reference. Don't blame me for taking what you referenced as a valid reason for a church to split. Why did you even mention it...Can you explain?

There is no reason to believe that the "Mark", who later helped Paul, is the same "John Mark" referenced when Paul and Barnabas split. We just don't know. If Luke was actually the penman of 2 Timothy (which we know Luke was with Paul at the time according to verse 4:11 of the same book) then, we can see that Luke always referenced "John" along with the surname of Mark. I don't see why this time would be any different. We do not see that occurring. Surely you can't take the metnioning of the same name as always being the same person. We know this not the case with the use of "John". Thus you have "John" mentioned along with the surname. You don't have the same mentioned in 2 Timothy.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

So a church starts in God's will.  Calls a pastor in God's will.  Shuts down in God's will.

But if a pastor goes to one church in God's will he cannot go to another church, because you cannot find an example in the scriptures.

Where is the example in scriptures that show a church shutting down?


I don't doubt that there are hirelings in the ministry.  I don't doubt there are servants of God in the ministry.  I also don't doubt that each will answer to God for their choices of what they believe is God's leading.  Since they will face God, I will keep my focus on Christ.

Just my .02 cents

Yup and Amen

Is that really you, Marty?
If so, I'll try to remember not to post imHo.....

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Lets start a list of churches you would leave your current successful church to "pastor"!

1. We can start the list with Jack Wilkerson from FBLB for FBCH and HAC

What church would you accept a position if they came calling?

Now I know some of you wouldn't, because you actually have a calling and duty to those you've labored among many years! I applaud you for it. Your ambition for success hasn't overridden your love and care for the sheep of your pastor! I can give a good example. Bobby Roberson has been pastoring GLBC since 1956! I'm sure he's had opportunity to find something else. Even opportunity.

Prov 26:4  Answer not a fool according to his folly...

1Ti 6:4-6  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

2Ti 2:23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes

 

[christundivided]

Lets start a list of churches you would leave your current successful church to "pastor"!

1. We can start the list with Jack Wilkerson from FBLB for FBCH and HAC

What church would you accept a position if they came calling?

Now I know some of you wouldn't, because you actually have a calling and duty to those you've labored among many years! I applaud you for it. Your ambition for success hasn't overridden your love and care for the sheep of your pastor! I can give a good example. Bobby Roberson has been pastoring GLBC since 1956! I'm sure he's had opportunity to find something else. Even opportunity.

Prov 26:4  Answer not a fool according to his folly...

Mat 5:22  But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Mathew Ward]

My statement was a general statement and not necessarily reflective of your own personal belief. What I said was true. Pastors have no problems questioning anything and everything. When they themselves fall under scrutiny.... they tend to automatically play the "gossip" card.

Our conversation involved the splitting of a church. You then mentioned "Paul and Barnabas" as reference. Don't blame me for taking what you referenced as a valid reason for a church to split. Why did you even mention it...Can you explain?

There is no reason to believe that the "Mark", who later helped Paul, is the same "John Mark" referenced when Paul and Barnabas split. We just don't know. If Luke was actually the penman of 2 Timothy (which we know Luke was with Paul at the time according to verse 4:11 of the same book) then, we can see that Luke always referenced "John" along with the surname of Mark. I don't see why this time would be any different. We do not see that occurring. Surely you can't take the metnioning of the same name as always being the same person. We know this not the case with the use of "John". Thus you have "John" mentioned along with the surname. You don't have the same mentioned in 2 Timothy.

Not everyone is always mentioned with their surname in the Scriptures.

Simon Peter is a great example of that.

 

[christundivided]

My statement was a general statement and not necessarily reflective of your own personal belief. What I said was true. Pastors have no problems questioning anything and everything. When they themselves fall under scrutiny.... they tend to automatically play the "gossip" card.

Our conversation involved the splitting of a church. You then mentioned "Paul and Barnabas" as reference. Don't blame me for taking what you referenced as a valid reason for a church to split. Why did you even mention it...Can you explain?

There is no reason to believe that the "Mark", who later helped Paul, is the same "John Mark" referenced when Paul and Barnabas split. We just don't know. If Luke was actually the penman of 2 Timothy (which we know Luke was with Paul at the time according to verse 4:11 of the same book) then, we can see that Luke always referenced "John" along with the surname of Mark. I don't see why this time would be any different. We do not see that occurring. Surely you can't take the metnioning of the same name as always being the same person. We know this not the case with the use of "John". Thus you have "John" mentioned along with the surname. You don't have the same mentioned in 2 Timothy.

Not everyone is always mentioned with their surname in the Scriptures.

Simon Peter is a great example of that.

True. Yet, we have other considerations with Peter. Peter was an apostle. He was the only Peter referenced as an apostle. The narrative around "Peter" leaves very little room to consider the possibility of another "Peter" in the overall discourse of NT testament writings. The use of "Mark" doesn't have the same support. It is possible and I'm not rejecting it altogether. Just mentioning the evidence. Draw your own conclusion.

Even so, the example of "Mark" doesn't set forth a illustration of a pastors continually changing churches due to the fact they "sinned" and later on are restored. In the "grand scheme" of things, Mark's transgression wasn't a "show stopper". We have a similar example of Jonah refusing to preach and later repenting. I'd say very few "preachers/pastors" face the same situation in restoration. They usually removed for "other" reasons.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Touche'!

I apologize.  I do not know you or if you scorn the truth once delivered to you.  My fault.  I am a sinner.  No sarcasm.

Yet, your question genders strife, envy and supposes that gain is godliness.  Your responses are filled with evil surmisings and railings.  Hence, it meets the Biblical definition of a foolish question.

 

[christundivided]

Touche'!

I apologize.  I do not know you or if you scorn the truth once delivered to you.  My fault.  I am a sinner.  No sarcasm.

Yet, your question genders strife, envy and supposes that gain is godliness.  Your responses are filled with evil surmisings and railings.  Hence, it meets the Biblical definition of a foolish question.

No problem. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I haven't tried to "gain" anything. What have I tried to gain?

I don't envy anyone. I haven't called for the envy of anyone. If anything, I've stood against envy. How about the "envy" associated with super human expectations? You know like....I "wish I could be so like the man that really handled this appropriately. If I just could be more like this man. God help me to be so much like my "pastors" and his example of the acceptance of God's grace?

Now "strife". Maybe. Yet, not all strife is bad. People need to get offended sometimes. It helps to change them. I haven't "strived" against the truth.... which is what is detailed in the verses you posted. Jesus sure did create a lot of "strife" among the Sanhedrin. So did the apostles.

 

[Pastor Marty]

Is that really you, Marty?
If so, I'll try to remember not to post imHo.....

Yes it is I

 

[weaker-brother]

I agree, I don't get the whole "called" of God business that Pastor's and Christian workers go on about.

99% of the "will of God" is in the Bible. 

How I should treat people, what I should do at any given time, how to pray, when to pray, what to pray about, that I should be a soulwinner, a witness for Christ, how I should treat my wife, how I should rear my children, and about everything else you can think of.

The 1%, the WHERE should I do all these things, it what is not said in the scriptures.

And this discussion would be different if people would STOP treating the 1% as though it comprised the whole will of God.

The will of God for any of us is that we follow God by obeying everything in the Bible.

The call of God is a call to be personally righteous, which is in the Bible, by the way.

I feel that if you concentrate real hard, and work on doing  all of the 99% of the "will of God" that is revealed in the Bible, I'm sure God will let you know the WHERE to do it--the last 1%.

Reminds me of lines from an old song:

It must be, the will of the Lord,
because it seems so right to me!

weaker