Calling all pastors!

[Tarheel Baptist]

Christundivided:

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, criticize those who can, and do! 

Those who can, do and mock those who can't. You're such a wonderful pastor. You're thirty years of success hasn't gone to your head at all. Its still just as big as it ever was....

I would suggest you reread YOUR posts here.
YOU are the one who judges and criticizes those who leave one church for another...as sinners!
According to YOUR illogic, the only legitimate reason for leaving a church is that it gets so weak, it has to be closed down!
Then, and only then, is a pastor free to leave...presumably to help another church close down.
Never Pastored but ONE church...never closed one down....

 

[christundivided]

Christundivided:

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, criticize those who can, and do! 

Those who can, do and mock those who can't. You're such a wonderful pastor. You're thirty years of success hasn't gone to your head at all. Its still just as big as it ever was....

I would suggest you reread YOUR posts here.
YOU are the one who judges and criticizes those who leave one church for another...as sinners!
According to YOUR illogic, the only legitimate reason for leaving a church is that it gets so weak, it has to be closed down!
Then, and only then, is a pastor free to leave...presumably to help another church close down.
Never Pastored but ONE church...never closed one down....

I was talking about pastors. Not anyone else. So get your facts straight. There are many reasons to leave a church for members. Pastors.... are a different story. Surely you know the difference.

I did not give the reason I left a church as the only legitimate reason. I suggest you REREAD my posts as well. You are the one that attacked me for what I wrote about my experience. You couldn't attack what I said about "reasons" for questioning when a pastor says something is "God's will". You simply latched onto something you considered to be a weakness of mine.

Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

I haven't seen one from you. All I've seen is the attitude of ..... "It must be God's will".... "you really shouldn't question God's will". "If a pastor says its God's will, then why question the pastor"?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Christundivided:

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, criticize those who can, and do! 

Those who can, do and mock those who can't. You're such a wonderful pastor. You're thirty years of success hasn't gone to your head at all. Its still just as big as it ever was....

I would suggest you reread YOUR posts here.
YOU are the one who judges and criticizes those who leave one church for another...as sinners!
According to YOUR illogic, the only legitimate reason for leaving a church is that it gets so weak, it has to be closed down!
Then, and only then, is a pastor free to leave...presumably to help another church close down.
Never Pastored but ONE church...never closed one down....

I was talking about pastors. Not anyone else. So get your facts straight. There are many reasons to leave a church for members. Pastors.... are a different story. Surely you know the difference.

I did not give the reason I left a church as the only legitimate reason. I suggest you REREAD my posts as well. You are the one that attacked me for what I wrote about my experience. You couldn't attack what I said about "reasons" for questioning when a pastor says something is "God's will". You simply latched onto something you considered to be a weakness of mine.

Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

I haven't seen one from you. All I've seen is the attitude of ..... "It must be God's will".... "you really shouldn't question God's will". "If a pastor says its God's will, then why question the pastor"?

Can you give ONE Biblical reason why a Pastor cannot leave one church for another, without killing...er closing it down? If a loon on the internet says the Pastor is always lying when he says he's following God's leading, why not question the loon?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church? [/quote]

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...
[/quote]

Certainly all viable reasons, but I see no Biblical or moral reason that a Pastor cannot conmsider and accept a call from another congregation. God led a dear friend ro leave a thriving church to accept the call of a church which was on life support. It proved to be a prosperous and good move for all involved, including the church he left.

 

[christundivided]

Christundivided:

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, criticize those who can, and do! 

Those who can, do and mock those who can't. You're such a wonderful pastor. You're thirty years of success hasn't gone to your head at all. Its still just as big as it ever was....

I would suggest you reread YOUR posts here.
YOU are the one who judges and criticizes those who leave one church for another...as sinners!
According to YOUR illogic, the only legitimate reason for leaving a church is that it gets so weak, it has to be closed down!
Then, and only then, is a pastor free to leave...presumably to help another church close down.
Never Pastored but ONE church...never closed one down....

I was talking about pastors. Not anyone else. So get your facts straight. There are many reasons to leave a church for members. Pastors.... are a different story. Surely you know the difference.

I did not give the reason I left a church as the only legitimate reason. I suggest you REREAD my posts as well. You are the one that attacked me for what I wrote about my experience. You couldn't attack what I said about "reasons" for questioning when a pastor says something is "God's will". You simply latched onto something you considered to be a weakness of mine.

Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

I haven't seen one from you. All I've seen is the attitude of ..... "It must be God's will".... "you really shouldn't question God's will". "If a pastor says its God's will, then why question the pastor"?

Can you give ONE Biblical reason why a Pastor cannot leave one church for another, without killing...er closing it down? If a loon on the internet says the Pastor is always lying when he says he's following God's leading, why not question the loon?

Yes. There is a good reason. A very good reason. Its called faithfulness. Do you ever remember reading the word "vocation" in your KJV?

What about the members left behind?

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...
[/quote]

Really? Job relocation? Are we talking about fulltime "pastors"? Even they are not fulltime.... I've known pastor's that wouldn't do such.

Church planting? So pastors are now church planters?

How about explaining changing demographics? Are you talking about too many black people in the church? Now, I have known that to happen before. Can't say it was God's will. Sorry.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Yes. There is a good reason. A very good reason. Its called faithfulness. Do you ever remember reading the word "vocation" in your KJV?[/quote]

Let's see..."faithful" to a local congregation or faithful to God's direction...hmm?

[quote author=christundivided]What about the members left behind?[/quote]

Yes? How would this argument be any different if you were talking about someone other than the pastor?

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...

Certainly all viable reasons, but I see no Biblical or moral reason that a Pastor cannot conmsider and accept a call from another congregation. God led a dear friend ro leave a thriving church to accept the call of a church which was on life support. It proved to be a prosperous and good move for all involved, including the church he left.
[/quote]

So in like manner.... I'm sure your church will do just fine when you leave it. On the contrary, I have seen churches die when a successful pastor left for bigger and better things. Have you seen such before?

Since both happen.... How do we tell which one is right and which one is wrong? Are you to judge it only by "success"?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...

Really? Job relocation? Are we talking about fulltime "pastors"? Even they are not fulltime.... I've known pastor's that wouldn't do such. [/quote]

I'm not making any distinction between full- and part-time. And just because some pastors wouldn't do such doesn't make the decision wrong.

[quote author=christundivided]Church planting? So pastors are now church planters?[/quote]

Yes. Actually many are.

[quote author=christundivided]How about explaining changing demographics?[/quote]

If someone has been pastoring an increasing "other" congregation and finds himself unable to communicate (both verbally and culturally) with the members, it might be best for him to step down.

[quote author=christundivided]Are you talking about too many black people in the church? Now, I have known that to happen before. Can't say it was God's will. Sorry.[/quote]

What? 

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Yes. There is a good reason. A very good reason. Its called faithfulness. Do you ever remember reading the word "vocation" in your KJV?

Let's see..."faithful" to a local congregation or faithful to God's direction...hmm?[/quote]

What a lame excuse. I assume you've left a church before to pastor another one and you're trying to make yourself feel better?

Being faithful to your local congregation is being faithful to God's direction.

[quote author=christundivided]What about the members left behind?

Yes? How would this argument be any different if you were talking about someone other than the pastor?[/quote]

What?

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Church planting? So pastors are now church planters?

Yes. Actually many are.[/quote]

Maybe so now..... but not so in the early church. Prove it.

If someone has been pastoring an increasing "other" congregation and finds himself unable to communicate (both verbally and culturally) with the members, it might be best for him to step down.

Really? He can't change? He has to go somewhere else? Really? All the ambition and no ambition to change. He has the "call" of God but he's not empowered to server anymore?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Yes. There is a good reason. A very good reason. Its called faithfulness. Do you ever remember reading the word "vocation" in your KJV?

Let's see..."faithful" to a local congregation or faithful to God's direction...hmm?

What a lame excuse. I assume you've left a church before to pastor another one and you're trying to make yourself feel better?[/quote]

Actually, no. I've never even "pastored" a church, but I have left several for various reasons. I also don't think pastors are some super-service Christian whose role is any more important than that of any other member.

[quote author=christundivided]Being faithful to your local congregation is being faithful to God's direction. [/quote]

Sometimes.

[quote author=christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]What about the members left behind?

Yes? How would this argument be any different if you were talking about someone other than the pastor?[/quote]

What?
[/quote]

See my first response.

 

[christundivided]

Actually, no. I've never even "pastored" a church, but I have left several for various reasons. I also don't think pastors are some super-service Christian whose role is any more important than that of any other member.

Sure they are different. They shouldn't ACT differently in many regards.... but they sure are different. If anyone should have a life of "service". It should be a pastor. Do you know what an example means? Are they to be an example regardless of member actions?

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Church planting? So pastors are now church planters?

Yes. Actually many are.

Maybe so now..... but not so in the early church. Prove it. [/quote]

1 - John the Apostle.
2 - Stop trying to import 1st century Roman culture into the modern era as normative.

[quote author=christundivided]

If someone has been pastoring an increasing "other" congregation and finds himself unable to communicate (both verbally and culturally) with the members, it might be best for him to step down.

Really? He can't change? He has to go somewhere else? Really? All the ambition and no ambition to change. He has the "call" of God but he's not empowered to server anymore?[/quote]

I didn't say he has to do anything. You did.

 

[rsc2a]

Actually, no. I've never even "pastored" a church, but I have left several for various reasons. I also don't think pastors are some super-service Christian whose role is any more important than that of any other member.

Sure they are different. They shouldn't ACT differently in many regards.... but they sure are different. If anyone should have a life of "service". It should be a pastor. Do you know what an example means? Are they to be an example regardless of member actions?

Different ≠ more important

Spiritual gifting 101

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...

Certainly all viable reasons, but I see no Biblical or moral reason that a Pastor cannot conmsider and accept a call from another congregation. God led a dear friend ro leave a thriving church to accept the call of a church which was on life support. It proved to be a prosperous and good move for all involved, including the church he left.

So in like manner.... I'm sure your church will do just fine when you leave it. On the contrary, I have seen churches die when a successful pastor left for bigger and better things. Have you seen such before?

Since both happen.... How do we tell which one is right and which one is wrong? Are you to judge it only by "success"?
[/quote]

That's a straw man argument...I'm not leaving our church...at least have no thoughts or plans to do so at the moment, but am ALWAYS open to the Lord's leading! I have had opportunity to leave thru the years, but never felt the Lord leading me to do so....

I've seen a five legged calf before but what i've seen and you've seen doesn't really matter.

You gave me NO Biblical reason to prevent a pastor from leaving one church foor another...because you have noe...because there is none. Now, your opinion is your opinion and that's fine too...but opinions are like armpits, and I think your's stink, in this particular area!
Wilkerson took the church in long beach when it was on life support and now it is on solid footing. he is going to Hammond to a church that is wheezing while on life support...but he is, according to him, following the same leading that took him to LB...one of the Holy Spirit!
He knows more about his life and leading than you do!

Maybe they'll call you to Long Beach...probably not.......

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

BUT...IF the church closes for lack of members, attendance or resources...THEN, the Pastor who led them into that mess is free to leave!

Have I said Bwaaaaaaaaaaah!

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Church planting? So pastors are now church planters?

Yes. Actually many are.

Maybe so now..... but not so in the early church. Prove it.

1 - John the Apostle.
2 - Stop trying to import 1st century Roman culture into the modern era as normative.

[quote author=christundivided]

If someone has been pastoring an increasing "other" congregation and finds himself unable to communicate (both verbally and culturally) with the members, it might be best for him to step down.

Really? He can't change? He has to go somewhere else? Really? All the ambition and no ambition to change. He has the "call" of God but he's not empowered to server anymore?[/quote]

I didn't say he has to do anything. You did.
[/quote]

1. John was an apostle. Not a pastor.
2. How about 1st century church culture? Too radical for you?

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Would you like to give a legitimate reason for a pastor, in good standing with his members, willingly leaving a church for another church?

Job relocation. Church planting. Changing demographics...

Certainly all viable reasons, but I see no Biblical or moral reason that a Pastor cannot conmsider and accept a call from another congregation. God led a dear friend ro leave a thriving church to accept the call of a church which was on life support. It proved to be a prosperous and good move for all involved, including the church he left.

So in like manner.... I'm sure your church will do just fine when you leave it. On the contrary, I have seen churches die when a successful pastor left for bigger and better things. Have you seen such before?

Since both happen.... How do we tell which one is right and which one is wrong? Are you to judge it only by "success"?

That's a straw man argument...I'm not leaving our church...at least have no thoughts or plans to do so at the moment, but am ALWAYS open to the Lord's leading! I have had opportunity to leave thru the years, but never felt the Lord leading me to do so....

I've seen a five legged calf before but what i've seen and you've seen doesn't really matter.

You gave me NO Biblical reason to prevent a pastor from leaving one church foor another...because you have noe...because there is none. Now, your opinion is your opinion and that's fine too...but opinions are like armpits, and I think your's stink, in this particular area!
Wilkerson took the church in long beach when it was on life support and now it is on solid footing. he is going to Hammond to a church that is wheezing while on life support...but he is, according to him, following the same leading that took him to LB...one of the Holy Spirit!
He knows more about his life and leading than you do!

Maybe they'll call you to Long Beach...probably not.......
[/quote]

I gave a very important reason. One you ignored.

So your just taking his word for it? Marty said the same where he is now? So did the other "Jack"

All the while there are people at FBLB left guessing!

Do you think FBCH offered to pay him more since he will have more responsibilities? Do you think that might have something to do with it?

It's got to be a real blessing that God would lead man to such a great work as FBCH and pay him more at the same time. I imagine he is getting a real blessing!

Do you think he might donate some of his salary to local abuse programs?