Baptism confusion plagues most versions including KJV and Latin Vulgate

FSSL said:
Yes. Every part of my hand is immersed in water. For this reason alone... I doubt I will ever shake your hand ;)

You must not understand the ceremonial washings.
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This is what many people fail to understand when βαπτιζω is used to indicate a washing. How did they wash their hands (in bible times prior to running water coming from a faucet in your bathroom)? Simple, they immersed their hands in water.

How did they wash dishes in that day? They immersed the dishes in water. Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe Steven isn't aware they didn't have running water in every home in bible times?
 
Thomas Cassidy said:
I would guess they agree with you on the Triune nature of the Godhead, the Person and Work of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Does that make you a KJVO?
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LOL! On at least one point, you guessed wrong . . .
 
Thomas Cassidy said:
FSSL said:
Yes. Every part of my hand is immersed in water. For this reason alone... I doubt I will ever shake your hand ;)

You must not understand the ceremonial washings.
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This is what many people fail to understand when βαπτιζω is used to indicate a washing. How did they wash their hands (in bible times prior to running water coming from a faucet in your bathroom)? Simple, they immersed their hands in water.

How did they wash dishes in that day? They immersed the dishes in water. Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe Steven isn't aware they didn't have running water in every home in bible times?
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... and there we go.

Using a grammatical-historical approach to teach the KJVO about baptism.
 
FSSL said:
The English word DOES involve the mode in the meaning... hence the reason for the OP. There is confusion.  Standard dictionaries say this...
Collins: baptize or baptise (bæpˈtaɪz) vb 1 Christianity to immerse (a person) in water or sprinkle water on (a person) as part of the rite of baptism 2 tr to give a name to; christen 3 tr to cleanse; purify [c13: from Late Latin baptīzāre, from Greek baptizein, from baptein to bathe, dip]
Compact Oxford: " baptism
■ noun the Christian rite of sprinkling water on to a person’s forehead or of immersing them in water, symbolizing purification or regeneration and admission to the Christian Church.
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So you believe the English word baptism has the meaning of sprinkling based on a "standard dictionary"?

Steven Avery
 
Steven Avery said:
So you believe the English word baptism has the meaning of sprinkling based on a "standard dictionary"?
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Yep! Did you not read the English dictionary entries?

For this reason we must clarify the English usages by explaining the grammatical-historical usage. The method you and Bibleprotector reject.
 
He is a Oneness Pentecostal... you hit ALL of the highlights!

It was a good chuckle! :)
 
Thomas Cassidy said:
So, why is a lost guy in here?
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We allow atheists... so we allow him. KJVOs have heavily moderated forums. We are fully able to moderate these guys without relying on a php function.

Besides... can you imagine the shrinkage on FFF if we.got rid of the unbelievers? :o
 
FSSL said:
Thomas Cassidy said:
So, why is a lost guy in here?
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We allow atheists... so we allow him. KJVOs have heavily moderated forums. We are fully able to moderate these guys without relying on a php function.

Besides... can you imagine the shrinkage on FFF if we.got rid of the unbelievers? :o
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I was in the pool!
 
Thomas Cassidy said:
So, why is a lost guy in here?
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Because his separatist KJV-onlyist friends go all squishy and ecumenical and accept him as a brother in the Lord.
 
Ransom said:
Thomas Cassidy said:
So, why is a lost guy in here?
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Because his separatist KJV-onlyist friends go all squishy and ecumenical and accept him as a brother in the Lord.
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All 2 of them.
 
FSSL said:
Yep! Did you not read the English dictionary entries?
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I was just wondering if you were really so dumb as to simply take a singular dictionary entry as your authority and base of analysis on a question of this nature.

As for immersion, ceremonial washings and related questions, there is a good discussion on Puritanboard that includes the Mark verse and a few others.

Does the Word "Baptizo" Require Immersion?
http://www.puritanboard.com/f57/does-word-baptizo-require-immersion-76976/

Steven Avery
 
There were TWO dictionaries of the ENGLISH word. Collins AND Oxford

I also provided BDAG's entry.

I don't get my information from forums. Forum posters have been known to not be able to read or count simple numbers.

I get my information from legitimate, peer-reviewed Greek sources. Baby baptizing sprinklers have zero Greek support for the ordinance of Baptism.
 
FSSL said:
There were TWO dictionaries of the ENGLISH word. Collins AND Oxford I also provided BDAG's entry. I don't get my information from forums. Forum posters have been known to not be able to read or count simple numbers.
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Sure. The Puritanboard folks in their discussion have the disadvanatage of actually looking at the scriptural and Greek aspects of the question. While a dictionary has the wonderful motif of telling you how the secular world thinks.  And allows you to cherrypick sources.  And which did not even support the necessity of immersion.  Very bright. Very historico-grammatical of you.  :)

And you should try to understand that the proper argument for immersion as the mode of baptism, rather than covering or washing or sprinkling, is NT contextual, eg:

Acts 8:36-38 
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Romans 6:3-4
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Steven Avery
 
Thomas Cassidy said:
Still lying. How sad. Another liar for the "ignore" list.
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The layers of the onion are slowly peeling away.

Who would have thunk it on this one?


peelingonion.jpg
 
And you should try to understand that the proper argument for immersion as the mode of baptism, rather than covering or washing or sprinkling, is NT contextual,...
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It's alright... the OP has been firmly established.

Since the grammar established the fact that it was by immersion (instead of the other Greek words meaning sprinkling/pouring), the Greek is clear... English... not so much.

There is confusion regarding Baptism and that confusion has not been cleared up by your continued shuffling.

You cannot even tell us what Baptism means. How do your posts move this discussion along?
 
While a dictionary has the wonderful motif of telling you how the secular world thinks.  And allows you to cherrypick sources.
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Well then... why not just go to the Greek Lexicons?
 
I think we have established that transliterating baptizo in the Vulgate instead of translating it, has extended to our English translations as well, and has caused great confusion throughout Christendom.

Many of the posts are so amusing as well as illustrative of that confusion.

For all of my life I have heard preachers explain that baptism did not mean sprinkling and that it was not one of the seven sacraments. If the word had been immersion there would have been no need for the explanation.

I do not know the reasons or motives of those who did those transliterations instead of translations, but I can speculate.

Perhaps it was their desire to impress their own ecclesiastical bias upon the text.

Maybe it was their desire to have the ability to define baptizo in a way that was not approved by God and the NT writers.


Discussions of this kind can clarify just exactly what baptizo means.

Thanks to all who have participated.
 
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