Why John MacArthur became a Calvinist.

[Ransom]

OK, so that pretty much summarizes the difference between us. I believe God loves everyone and Jesus died for everyone, while you maintain that God loves everyone on a scale and Jesus died for certain people as opposed to every person.

Do you love your brother's wife in the same way as you love your own wife? If so, you're in a heap of trouble with your brother.

Do you love the people in your neighbourhood with the same intensity as you love a complete stranger in, say, Myanmar?

No one loves all humanity equally and without distinction, and rightly so. Apparently, we just demand that of God. Yet he loves the whole world enough to give them life and their daily necessities, and to proclaim to them his Son so that, if they were willing, they could be saved from the judgment to come. But he loves his own people enought to give them special blessings, and to actually save them. There is, indeed, a hierarchy and a distinction.

 

[aleshanee]

You have made a few references to the relationship between Calvinism and the human psyche, which is very intriguing to me. I plan to research this when time allows. Thank you - this was something I hadn’t previously considered, but it seems to be relevant.

i first heard about that from my sister who has a phd in psychology.... she doesn;t work in the field of psychology but rather uses psychology in her field of work ..(if that makes any sense).... but she noticed that relationship between narcissism and calvinism when she was an active member on one of the older versions of the fff forums... ...she was still in college back then and didn;t have the time to get into deep discussions about it... ... ...and she has no time for anything like this forum now either.... .... but in looking up the theory on the internet i found out there are a lot people - including many theoligians .. who have made that same connection ... and there are some good online articles about it......... ...

here is one of them that i thought was pretty good.....

Narcissism + Christianity = Calvinism. 9 Correlations Between Narcissi

Behavior pattern recognition has been around for years. My experience with it is as an amateur but the older I get the more adept I become, especially if I

graceprovoked.org

 

[Bob Jones VI]

That is what you want me to say, but I cannot speculate on a person I’ve never met or even know exists.

It is not specifically my brother. My question is, why does any person make the superior choice to believe? Do you believe that there is something within that person that makes them a better chooser? I know you will not answer the question in the affirmative. I believe that God is sovereign in salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith, not works. Lest any person should boast. The point of not boasting is that there is nothing within you that makes you differ from any other person. If you say "I chose," I want to know, why?. What was it prior to that choice that led you to make the morally superior decision to believe?

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

It is not specifically my brother. My question is, why does any person make the superior choice to believe? Do you believe that there is something within that person that makes them a better chooser? I know you will not answer the question in the affirmative. I believe that God is sovereign in salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith, not works. Lest any person should boast. The point of not boasting is that there is nothing within you that makes you differ from any other person. If you say "I chose," I want to know, why?. What was it prior to that choice that led you to make the morally superior decision to believe?

In a word: Pride. I think humans have to make the conscious choice to accept the gift of salvation available to all mankind. I think this can be accomplished in different ways among different cultures and regions of the world, but it’s available to all.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

i first heard abouth that from my sister who has a phd in psychology.... she doesn;t work in the field of psychology but rather uses psychology in her field of work ..(if that makes any sense).... but she noticed that relationship between narcissism and calvinism when she was an active member on one of the older versions of the fff forums... ...she was still in college back then and didn;t have the time get into deep discussions about it... ... ...and she has no time for anything like this forum now.... .... but in looking up the theory on the internet i found out there are a lot people - including many theoligians .. who have made that same connection ... and there are some good online articles about it......... ...

here is one of them that i thought was pretty good.....

Narcissism + Christianity = Calvinism. 9 Correlations Between Narcissi

Behavior pattern recognition has been around for years. My experience with it is as an amateur but the older I get the more adept I become, especially if I

graceprovoked.org

Thank you for the link. It’ll take me a while to get through it, but I plan to.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

As I told Ransom, Ekk, etc., we could spitball pro & con verses back and forth until we develop carpel tunnel syndrome, and we’ll still be on separate sides of the fence. My former, longtime pastor has a doctorate degree in theology from an actual accredited, reputable university (rare in IFB circles), and he was always able to very plainly break down why Calvinism is a misapplication of the Bible. If that’s not good enough for you, we can delve into the Catholic Church with a couple thousand years worth of philosophy and theology that will make you Calvinist boys look like schoolyard children.

What proof text can you provide to show that man is the instigator in his salvation? To believe what you believe you ‘free will boys’ must contort many verses and passages of scripture to explain it doesn’t mean what it says.

 

[FSSL]

To loosely paraphrase something Charles Spurgeon once said, it's unfortunate that the doctrines of saving grace have become labelled with Calvin's name, but that's the label we got, so he went with it.

We could say we are Reformed but that is just vague.

 

[FSSL]

It doesn’t seem to me you’re convinced you’re one of “the elected.”

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

What proof text can you provide to show that man is the instigator in his salvation? To believe what you believe you ‘free will boys’ must contort many verses and passages of scripture to explain it doesn’t mean what it says.

Simple. ABCs of salvation. (A) Admit you’re a sinner (Romans 3:23); (B) Believe - Romans 10:9; (C) Confess - 1 John 1:9. All involve the role of man and God. This is probably more accurately described as man meeting God in the middle.

 

[Ekklesian]

I’m not retreating, but anything I post is met with immediate denial. I have an army of supporters on my side (namely the RCC). You, friend, are part of the radical fringe group, not me. I’m playing chess while you’re playing marbles.

LOL. Well, I have Jesus and the Apostles, and an entire order of Augustinian monks. So...your move, chessmaster.

 

[Ekklesian]

spoken like a true narcissist .... obsessed with yourself and totally useless to the rest of the world... ..you spout scriptures as if they support your arrogant assumptions... but you have no understanding of what you are reading...... ... .. what about you makes up the salt of the earth Jesus spoke of?....... nothing i can see.... ..you have come off as nothing but an antagonist and a shock jockey here ... out to amuse yourself at the expense of the forum..... ....i;m not the only person here who has seen that... ..

 

[ALAYMAN]

What proof text can you provide to show that man is the instigator in his salvation? To believe what you believe you ‘free will boys’ must contort many verses and passages of scripture to explain it doesn’t mean what it says.

The word "instigator" is a bit misleading in your question, for we know salvation is of the Lord, by His initiating grace. Having said that, Paul seems to be appealing to natural revelation as an agent for men to approach knowledge of God in Acts 17:27.


Acts 17:27 that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 

[ALAYMAN]

Assurance of salvation in the Calvinist scheme is indeed a tad problematic in the existential sense, because though the Calvinist proclaims that God will ensure the perseverance of of the Saint (a sound theological proposition), he cannot be sure that he is one of the elect (being potentially self-deceived) and that he won't eventually fall away from faith

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

Assurance of salvation in the Calvinist scheme is indeed a tad problematic in the existential sense, because though the Calvinist proclaims that God will ensure the perseverance of of the Saint (a sound theological proposition), he cannot be sure that he is one of the elect (being potentially self-deceived) and that he won't eventually fall away from faith

I think this is pretty much what I said, though probably in a roundabout fashion.

 

[Ransom]

Assurance of salvation in the Calvinist scheme is indeed a tad problematic in the existential sense, because though the Calvinist proclaims that God will ensure the perseverance of of the Saint (a sound theological proposition), he cannot be sure that he is one of the elect (being potentially self-deceived) and that he won't eventually fall away from faith

1. 1 John says we can know. It was written specifically for that.

2. "One of the elect" is just another biblical-ish way of saying "a Christian." How can we know we are a Christian? Again, see #1.

3. Assurance isn't specifically a Calvinist problem. But Calvinist theology is cohesive and gives a strong theological basis for it.

 

[aleshanee]

View attachment 6802

i don;t toss pearls to pigs... .. but since you seem to have lost your skin i can
post an easy recipe for stove top chicharones... ...provided you still have it
laying around somewhere.... ....... might as well be useful for something...

 

[FSSL]

Assurance of salvation in the Calvinist scheme is indeed a tad problematic in the existential sense, because though the Calvinist proclaims that God will ensure the perseverance of of the Saint (a sound theological proposition), he cannot be sure that he is one of the elect (being potentially self-deceived) and that he won't eventually fall away from faith

Assurance is the byproduct of perseverance. You don't behave, you have mental turmoil.

 

[Ekklesian]

i don;t toss pearls to pigs... .. but since you seem to have lost your skin i can
post an easy recipe for stove top chicharones... ...provided you still have it
laying around somewhere.... ....... might as well be useful for something...

You need to channel all this hostility into a good study of the Scriptures, then maybe you could make an argument from them.

 

[DrHuk&Duck]

You need to channel all this hostility into a good study of the Scriptures, then maybe you could make an argument from them.

Let’s be honest, it wouldn’t matter if she had a doctorate in theology from a prestigious university, you still wouldn’t change your position. Same for me. You choose to interpret verses differently. And as far as I know, none of us are fluent in the ancient languages of the Bible, and none of us have access to the earliest texts, so we do the best with what we have.

 

[aleshanee]

You need to channel all this hostility into a good study of the Scriptures, then maybe you could make an argument from them.

you need to stop trying so hard to prove i was right when i said calvinism was a result of christianity mixed with narcissism..... . ...you have already proven me right on that account multiple times in this thread.... and proven further that calvinism can also be a result of narcissism alone - with no christianity involved... . ... . ...you are obviously obsessed.... learn to walk away when someone has no desire and no intention to interact with you...... i find you and your manner of conversation repulsive...... and that is regardless of what topics or doctrines are being discussed......