Why John MacArthur became a Calvinist.

Ekklesian said:
You wouldn't believe them anyway :LOL:

But don't be so dense. I provided many.

What is faith, but the assurance of things hoped for? You can't have one without the other.
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But...

If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? - Luke 11:11-13 KJV​
 
FSSL said:
Still... nothing about a guaranteed assurance.
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LOL, the Scripture is packed with it.

Well, God's promises are to His children anyway. If you haven't been given ears to hear them, you certainly can't have any faith in them. What more can I say? If your hope is in your good behavior, then you've deceived yourself. It's those who think they stand that are warned to take heed. I don't envy your place one bit.

Faith in the promises of God is the only confidence His children have. Whatever is not of faith is sin. And that comes only by way of the Spirit. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And it is there for His children for the asking. You can't work for it. You can only ask in faith.
 
Ransom said:
Verse 27? It's not a positive picture. God is "actually not far from each one of us," but they stumble about, groping for him like blind men in the dark. He's right there, making himself known, so they are "without excuse" (Rom. 1:20). They can't find him, because their vision is obscured by a futile search for a god of their understanding, really a god of their imagination. "The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor. 4:4).

Paul didn't literally mean the Athenians had set up an idol to an Unknown God that was accidentally in honour of the true God. The Greeks worshipped a pantheon of idols, and that one was there in case they missed one. They were hedging their bets. He redefined the meaning of the idol for his sermon.
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The logical implication of "If haply" (after the command that they should seek the Lord) seems to suggest that it was possible to find God.
 
Ekklesian said:
You bring nothing to the table but filthy rags. If you have a place in Heaven, it is only what Christ has done. If you possess any righteousness it is only what has been imputed to you by Christ.

That's what union with Christ is.
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You seem to be flailing and beating the air with your posts. Nobody here is arguing that we have any form of righteousness that somehow issues from our own will or actions. The idea being discussed is if a person can be assured that they are one of the elect if they show zero progress in the Christian life. In that sense, as FSSL has aptly pointed out, you seem to favor the Free Grace folk's repentance-less ("greasy grace") disconnection of justification from sanctification and ultimately glorification.
 

Ekklesian "Grace is free by definition. Election is unconditional. But what do you mean by the proper noun, Free Grace?​

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

“You can’t tell me you can’t trust Christ to save you and go out here and live like the Devil and still go go heaven. Yes I can tell you that. That’s what the Bible says. If you don’t come to the conclusion that that yes, you can trust Christ as your Savior and live like the Devil, and still go to heaven when you die, you don’t get grace. Because that is the exact truth. That is the truth. I do not have to change my life, I don’t have to stop one sin!
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxZk7VBSpAmtedx94X2LH9lW9NYiKiu4dv

I know people who claim to be saved because they “believe in Jesus” but live double lives. Some people who claim the name of Christ can lie with impunity, promote and defend every kind of sin imaginable and yet believe they will stand justified before God because of their “faith.” “The devils also believe and tremble” (James 2:19). How is your view of assurance any different than that of Yankee Arnold or Bob Gray or any other so-called preacher of the gospel who believes in faith without repentance? If there has been no change in one’s heart only a self-deceived person can have any assurance of salvation. That person needs to examine himself as to whether he is in the faith just as the apostle Paul warned. “God grants repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18).
 
Ekklesian said:
In what manner did the Holy Spirit 'come to you'?


I wouldn't say that, exactly, and I would insert a caveat before adopting the phraseology of Charismaniacs and men'o'gawd.
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I don’t know, what I do know is I began to think differently about my life and the lifestyle I was living. And at some point I did surrender to God and wanted him to be the end all be all of my life.
 
ALAYMAN said:
The logical implication of "If haply" (after the command that they should seek the Lord) seems to suggest that it was possible to find God.
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The particle αρα translated "haply" presumes a negative answer. So the implication is that they seek, but do not find. I could paraphrase Paul's meaning along the lines of, "God has placed men where they are, so that they will seek him, but do they find him? No, they feel around like blind men in the dark, but they don't find God even though he's right there."
 
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biscuit1953 said:

Ekklesian "Grace is free by definition. Election is unconditional. But what do you mean by the proper noun, Free Grace?​

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

“You can’t tell me you can’t trust Christ to save you and go out here and live like the Devil and still go go heaven. Yes I can tell you that. That’s what the Bible says. If you don’t come to the conclusion that that yes, you can trust Christ as your Savior and live like the Devil, and still go to heaven when you die, you don’t get grace. Because that is the exact truth. That is the truth. I do not have to change my life, I don’t have to stop one sin!
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxZk7VBSpAmtedx94X2LH9lW9NYiKiu4dv

I know people who claim to be saved because they “believe in Jesus” but live double lives. Some people who claim the name of Christ can lie with impunity, promote and defend every kind of sin imaginable and yet believe they will stand justified before God because of their “faith.” “The devils also believe and tremble” (James 2:19). How is your view of assurance any different than that of Yankee Arnold or Bob Gray or any other so-called preacher of the gospel who believes in faith without repentance? If there has been no change in one’s heart only a self-deceived person can have any assurance of salvation. That person needs to examine himself as to whether he is in the faith just as the apostle Paul warned. “God grants repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18).
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Ekklesian said:
the grace of God is not a license for immorality, and no one with real faith thinks so.
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You must have missed that.
 
Ekklesian said:
The grace of God is not a license for immorality, and no one with real faith thinks so. You must have missed that.
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And yet you believe that a Christian's obedience to Christ has nothing to do with assurance when it comes to whether they are truly saved?
 
Ekklesian said:
You must have missed that.
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windy.gif
 
Ekklesian said:
I have not, but a cursory Internet search reveals that what you are calling Free Grace is what was called in my circles 'easy believeism'. Both are unfortunate monikers.

No, the grace of God is not a license for immorality, and no one with real faith thinks so. Again, if one is looking to his degree of sanctification, or to anything other than the finished work of Christ for their assurance of salvation, they are being beset by a form of legalism.

Again, the birthmark of election is faith. If the noncal thinks he has a clearer path to assurance than the Calvinist, he doesn't know faith.
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The Free Grace Movement was characterized by Ryrie and Zane Hodges. They taught at Grace Theological Seminary in Winona Lake IN. I was indoctrinated in this at Maranatha Baptist Bible College in 1992-95.

Basically, it says that if you confess Jesus with your mouth, NOTHING ELSE EVER HAS TO HAPPEN. You never have to have any evidence at all. Later at Central Baptist Seminary Charles Hauser, who studied under them took it farther. He said, in class, that Romans 10:9 "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord" meant that if you simply agreed that Jesus is "DEITY" you are saved. No change is necessary. You can live like whatever.

In response to that movement, John MacArthur wrote "The Gospel According to Jesus," that is basically a straight Reformed view of Salvation and sanctification. The same faith that saves is the faith that sanctifies. Without a changed life, you are not a believer.

It was a hot topic in the 90's. I read MacArthur and was convinced. His book was clear and simple.
 
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Years ago I attended a soul-winning presentation by the senior pastor and assistant pastor of a staunchly IFB church (KJV Only, ban on women's slacks, the whole shebang). The assistant pastor played the role of an unsaved Roman Catholic prospect.

The pastor told the "lost" man that he wanted him to recite the words of a prayer with him, and that the purpose of the prayer was to reaffirm the faith he had previously received at the time of his infant baptism in the Roman Catholic Church. The "unsaved" man dutifully repeated the words that the pastor prompted him to recite.

Then the pastor asked the "unsaved" man, "Do you know you are saved?" The man said "Yes." The pastor asked him, "How do you know that you are saved?" The man replied, "Because I prayed that prayer."

I disagree with this approach. To the extent that this is how fundamentalist churches nowadays are "winning" souls, we are in a heap of trouble.

See these articles by David Cloud who is opposed to "Easy-Believism" in IFB ranks (he does not like that term, and prefers to call it "Quick Prayerism)."

Quick Prayerism Summarized

Quick Prayerism Summarized
www.wayoflife.org

A Further Conversation About Quick Prayerism, Way of Life Literature

A Further Conversation About Quick Prayerism, Way of Life Literature
www.wayoflife.org
 
ALAYMAN said:
You seem to be flailing and beating the air with your posts.
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It only seems that way when responding to all tangents y'all flying off on.

ALAYMAN said:
Nobody here is arguing that we have any form of righteousness that somehow issues from our own will or actions.
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When insisting on so many conditions for election, i would say you are.

ALAYMAN said:
The idea being discussed is if a person can be assured that they are one of the elect if they show zero progress in the Christian life.
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That's just the tangent where you lost your grip. We were discussing where one should look for assurance, and why.

ALAYMAN said:
In that sense, as FSSL has aptly pointed out, you seem to favor the Free Grace folk's repentance-less ("greasy grace") disconnection of justification from sanctification and ultimately glorification.
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It won't look that way when viewed through the lenses of the doctrines of grace.
 
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