Why Jack Schaap Fell

[Vince Massi]

This could be titled "Why HAC Must Fail," or "Why You Should Transfer Out of HAC," because they all result from the same things.

One of the most commonly misunderstood verses of Scripture is Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.  Many Christian think the verse means that if you do something bad, the same bad thing will happen to you. However, the next verse gives the correct interpretation: For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

When you do something wrong, you corrupt your own flesh. On another thread, I have shown that deceit is a deeply-rooted, integral part of FBCH/HAC. There is no way possible that Jack Schaap could have been placed on staff and kept there without knowing this. As the leader of both church and college, Schaap made the decisión not to correct the falsehoods that both organizations practice. He never confessed that they had covered up the Dave Hyles scandal, slandered people who objected to their sins, kept false records on the students, etc. Instead, Schaap continued these cover-ups. By doing so, he corrupted his flesh.

FBCH was near its height when the Dave Hyles scandal broke, and Jack Hyles made the decisión to practice a strong cover-up. He  cracked down on disloyal teachers and staff, tightened the already-existing spy network, and made vague slanders at people who objected to his sins. He corrupted his flesh, and the church began one of the greatest declines in the history of Christianity. Schaap continued the cover-up and corrupted his own flesh.

The corruption did not HAVE to lead to immorality with a teen-ager, but the corruption was inevitable. And the deceit that brought on this corruption is still in place.

 

[Route_70]

The corruption did not HAVE to lead to immorality with a teen-ager ...

NO, NO, NO, Vince.  "Rape" a teenager.  That is what Schaap did.

 

[Sherryh]

Vince you're in Mexico it takes years to clean up fbc.....give the pastor a chance

 

[BALAAM]

Where is all the Christian love, charity, understanding, and forgiveness that you have told us that you posess? (Preable)

 

[bgwilkinson]

The corruption did not HAVE to lead to immorality with a teen-ager ...

NO, NO, NO, Vince.  "Rape" a teenager.  That is what Schaap did.

Yes it was child rape or pedophilia. What he did one time, the worlds youngest youth director, did dozens of times.

He thought that since the former youth director could do it many times and still get a recommendation to a church in Texas he should be able to do it too.

He just did not see the hand writing on the wall.

"Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting."

IMHO

 

[RebeccasRants]

I just wonder how DH has escaped prison.  If Tina Anderson could send her molestar to jail years after the fact, why can't someone send DH to jail???? It's strange to me that JS did it once (as far as we know) but DH did it multiple times and seems to have gotten away with it for life.

 

[bgwilkinson]

I just wonder how DH has escaped prison.  If Tina Anderson could send her molestar to jail years after the fact, why can't someone send DH to jail???? It's strange to me that JS did it once (as far as we know) but DH did it multiple times and seems to have gotten away with it for life.

In that day all that mattered was soul winning. If you were good at that you could do anything and get away with it.

Just look at all the knuckleheads that we have gotten rid of in the last 40 years.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The age of consent in Indiana is 16 today as it was then.

If he tried it today the laws have changed so that he would be liable if he was in an authority position.

IMHO

 

[Sherryh]

Rebecca it does seem like Dh walked away but his justice is yet to come,.....

 

[qwerty]

The age of consent in Indiana is 16 today as it was then.

If he tried it today the laws have changed so that he would be liable if he was in an authority position.

IMHO

Close... Indiana had specific criteria, not just a person in authority.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title35/ar42/ch4.html

 

[bgwilkinson]

The age of consent in Indiana is 16 today as it was then.

If he tried it today the laws have changed so that he would be liable if he was in an authority position.

IMHO

Close... Indiana had specific criteria, not just a person in authority.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title35/ar42/ch4.html

IMHO

I think I was trying to say this was not the law in the 70s but has been adopted recently due to the greater public awareness of and revulsion to abuses against children.

I believe they were passed in great part to stop as well as punish the DHs of the world who had been getting a pass.


I was not clear on that. Thanks for the link to the current law.

 

[Vince Massi]

1 Corinthians 15:33 tells us that "evil communications corrupt good manners." It does not say that evil communications "might" corrupt good manners; it tells us that they do.

Jack Schaap started out as a Godly student who became steadily more corrupted as he learned and participated in the deceit that is an integral part of the FBCH/HAC system. The other staff members were also corrupted by their participation in the deceit. By the time he became pastor, Schaap was the corrupted leader of a corrupted staff. The problem here is that this staff would not object to his sins.

Some of you remember the FBCH acting pastor who made a video after the Schaap scandal broke. Towards the end, he broke into a blissful smile as he explained that on the next day, over 100 buses would go out to bring in the lost. What he didn't explain that most of those bus routes were run by the students, not the leadership. The leadership had spent decades covering up sin; the students were being blessed by God. As a group, HAC students do more for Christ than most other college students. But they accept corruption and a history of scandal that no other college students accept, and they have a much higher scandal rate among their graduates. Evil communications corrupt good manners.

 

[Vince Massi]

Two reasons for Schaap's fall are that he corrupted himself with deceit, and he was surrounded by a corrupt staff. A third reason is found in Proverbs 11:14 "...in the multitude of counsellors there is safety." Pro 15:22  Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established. Pro 24:6  For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Schaap realized that new methods, such as multi-site churches, were sometimes successful, and he started looking into these. But Schaap did not go to successful multi-site churches for counsel. If he had gone to them for advice, explaining how deeply-rooted deceit was at FBCH, they would have advised him to tell his people the truth, to correct false records, to repudiate their slanders, and to confess that they had sinned. And they might have told him how despised HAC is among America's most successful churches.

When Schaap did take advice, he did not take it from people who were more successful than him. He got into danger, his purposes were frustrated, and he lacked wise counsel.

 

[prophet]

Two reasons for Schaap's fall are that he corrupted himself with deceit, and he was surrounded by a corrupt staff. A third reason is found in Proverbs 11:14 "...in the multitude of counsellors there is safety." Pro 15:22  Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established. Pro 24:6  For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Schaap realized that new methods, such as multi-site churches, were sometimes successful, and he started looking into these. But Schaap did not go to successful multi-site churches for counsel. If he had gone to them for advice, explaining how deeply-rooted deceit was at FBCH, they would have advised him to tell his people the truth, to correct false records, to repudiate their slanders, and to confess that they had sinned. And they might have told him how despised HAC is among America's most successful churches.

When Schaap did take advice, he did not take it from people who were more successful than him. He got into danger, his purposes were frustrated, and he lacked wise counsel.

You don't know Jack Squat, hombre. Callate tu boca muy grande, por favor.  Gringo. 

Anishinabe

 

[Vince Massi]

Corrupted by the deceit at FBCH, surrounded by a corrupt staff, and rejecting the counsel of Godly saints outside his own group, Jack Schaap fell into major sin. The deceit remains, and Pastor Wilkerson will have to deal with it. That's it.

Now, a last thing. When the Dave Hyles scandal broke, Jack Hyles went to war against his critics. One of his first actions was to join the KJO movement, making HAC the largest KJO college in history. Several years later, HAC had become the most scandal-ridden college in US history, and the KJO movement replaced Catholicism as the most sexually-perverted religion in the US. And FBCH, the largest KJO church in history, went into one of the greatest declines in the history of Christianity, going from over 40,000 to less than 6,000.

It is natural to think that KJO is the cause of these failures. But while they are both KJO today, Dave Hyles and Jim Vineyard performed their greatest scandals before joining. And Hyles was covering up sin and installing deceit as an integral part of the church before he joined. And while he strongly commands hatred of the saints, Peter Ruckman, founder of the KJO, has confined his sex scandals to wife-stealing and multiple divorces; he leaves children alone.

One accusation was that Hyles didn't really believe KJO; he was circling the wagons to distract his people from the massive failure that had erupted. However, Jack had already strongly believed that man-made rules are a cause and result of holiness; I find it more likely that he was turning to a major new rule as a means of holiness (It didn't work) while he strengthened the church's deceit.

None of the large, successful multi-site churches that Schaap looked at are known for deceit, nor are they known for adherence to man-made rules. KJO isn't even an issue with them. It is the result of sin, not the cause.

 

[BALAAM]

Corrupted by the deceit at FBCH, surrounded by a corrupt staff, and rejecting the counsel of Godly saints outside his own group, Jack Schaap fell into major sin. The deceit remains, and Pastor Wilkerson will have to deal with it. That's it.

Now, a last thing. When the Dave Hyles scandal broke, Jack Hyles went to war against his critics. One of his first actions was to join the KJO movement, making HAC the largest KJO college in history. Several years later, HAC had become the most scandal-ridden college in US history, and the KJO movement replaced Catholicism as the most sexually-perverted religion in the US. And FBCH, the largest KJO church in history, went into one of the greatest declines in the history of Christianity, going from over 40,000 to less than 6,000.

It is natural to think that KJO is the cause of these failures. But while they are both KJO today, Dave Hyles and Jim Vineyard performed their greatest scandals before joining. And Hyles was covering up sin and installing deceit as an integral part of the church before he joined. And while he strongly commands hatred of the saints, Peter Ruckman, founder of the KJO, has confined his sex scandals to wife-stealing and multiple divorces; he leaves children alone.

One accusation was that Hyles didn't really believe KJO; he was circling the wagons to distract his people from the massive failure that had erupted. However, Jack had already strongly believed that man-made rules are a cause and result of holiness; I find it more likely that he was turning to a major new rule as a means of holiness (It didn't work) while he strengthened the church's deceit.

None of the large, successful multi-site churches that Schaap looked at are known for deceit, nor are they known for adherence to man-made rules. KJO isn't even an issue with them. It is the result of sin, not the cause.

Okay. Once again. You have said a number of times on here how you have forgiven JV and because of your loving compassion and forgiving heart (which you seem to feel that few others posess) you forgive jv. And you still went to work for him. Now you continually call him a gangster who oversaw gang activity and numerous other personal failures. I personally think you are nuttier than a fruitcake.

 

[IFB X-Files]

Several years later, HAC had become the most scandal-ridden college in US history

Who exactly tracks this?  I would think Penn State would currently be #1.  Sir, you are an [deleted by ADMIN].

 

[IFB X-Files]

... Peter Ruckman, founder of the KJO, has confined his sex scandals to wife-stealing and multiple divorces; he leaves children alone.

I've already exposed one of your misrepresentations of Ruckman.  Now you accuse him of "wife-stealing".  You truly are an [deleted by ADMIN].

 

[16KJV11]

Admin has been busy on this thread!

 

[prophet]

Ruckman, blah, blah, Vineyard, blah, blah...got it, Preeble.

Anishinabe