What is your take on gossip???

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Obvious you have a comprehension problem.[/quote]

You making explicitly contradictory statements is evidence of a comprehension problem on my part?

[quote author=christundivided]I said that the word "gossip" does not accurate reflect the use of tale bearer and slander in the Scriptures.

I never said that the Modern English/New English word "gossip" doesn't represent some type of "motive". I compared the use of "gossip" to what actually is found in the Scriptures. I proved there is no "one to one" situation in which "gossip" can be used exclusively in place of "slander" or tale bearer".[/quote]

And then proceed to define "tale bearer" and "slander" using what is, in reality, a modern definition of gossip. You also started by saying these words "express the same thoughts". Are you deliberately attempting to make your point by utilizing facts that directly contradict your point?

And you haven't proven this. That's why everyone else in the thread is calling your argument into question.

[quote author=christundivided]Gossip SOMETIMES doesn't involve a lie.[/quote]

See...this here...that's another direct contradiction you've made. (Are you going to ask for quotes here to?)

[quote author=christundivided]The same can not be said of "slander"...[/quote]

By definition, true.

[quote author=christundivided]...or "talebearer". [/quote]

And false.

[quote author=christundivided]I even listed a verse that can somewhat be seen to imply "motive" in busy bodies. Someone always trying to get involved in other people's business. I think it was Ransom that mentioned "public" record isn't "gossip".
[/quote]

"Trying to get involved in other people's business" is not necessarily gossip.

Gossip is not necessarily "trying to get in other people's business".

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Obvious you have a comprehension problem.

You making explicitly contradictory statements is evidence of a comprehension problem on my part?

[quote author=christundivided]I said that the word "gossip" does not accurate reflect the use of tale bearer and slander in the Scriptures.

I never said that the Modern English/New English word "gossip" doesn't represent some type of "motive". I compared the use of "gossip" to what actually is found in the Scriptures. I proved there is no "one to one" situation in which "gossip" can be used exclusively in place of "slander" or tale bearer".[/quote]

And then proceed to define "tale bearer" and "slander" using what is, in reality, a modern definition of gossip. You also started by saying these words "express the same thoughts". Are you deliberately attempting to make your point by utilizing facts that directly contradict your point?

And you haven't proven this. That's why everyone else in the thread is calling your argument into question.

[quote author=christundivided]Gossip SOMETIMES doesn't involve a lie.[/quote]

See...this here...that's another direct contradiction you've made. (Are you going to ask for quotes here to?)

[quote author=christundivided]The same can not be said of "slander"...[/quote]

By definition, true.

[quote author=christundivided]...or "talebearer". [/quote]

And false.

[quote author=christundivided]I even listed a verse that can somewhat be seen to imply "motive" in busy bodies. Someone always trying to get involved in other people's business. I think it was Ransom that mentioned "public" record isn't "gossip".
[/quote]

"Trying to get involved in other people's business" is not necessarily gossip.

Gossip is not necessarily "trying to get in other people's business".
[/quote]

You are about as obtuse as they get. Everything I said is true. How I presented it is true.

When I said that the truth can't be GOSSIP... I was referencing the way that people understand the word "Gossip" in relation to the Scripture they use to support such beliefs. Which are in fact, not entirely accurate. Call it a contradiction if you like. I see no contradiction. What I said was in context of what I went on to explain. There is a disconnect between what the Scriptures say and what people perceive to be "gossip".

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]You are about as obtuse as they get. Everything I said is true. How I presented it is true.

When I said that the truth can't be GOSSIP... I was referencing the way that people understand the word "Gossip" in relation to the Scripture they use to support such beliefs. Which are in fact, not entirely accurate. Call it a contradiction if you like. I see no contradiction. What I said was in context of what I went on to explain. There is a disconnect between what the Scriptures say and what people perceive to be "gossip". [/quote]

Heh...

Gossip is truth except where it isn't truth. It's a matter of motivation except where it isn't. It is the same as tale-bearing and slander except where it's not the same.



Do you find it easier to make your arguments (convincing) when you can just change what words mean to suit your purposes whenever you feel like it?

(It is apparently a common tactic for among some circles...)

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

[quote author=rsc2a][quote author=christundivided]Often people confuse the truth with gossip. When they are faced with the truth, instead of own up to the stark realities truth brings, they simply yell. "Gossip".

Gossip is more about motivation than truth. You can say something true and it still be gossip if the point of saying it is to make someone look bad or tear someone down.

No its not...

[quote author=christundivided]The use of the word "gossip" today does not accurately reflect the use of "talebearer" and "slander" in the Scriptures. Both carry the "connotations" of a lie or purposed evil.

[quote author=christundivided]You then proceed to think you can judge "gossip" by "motive" alone. I could care less about motive. I care about whether it is the truth or not. If it is TRUE... then who cares about motive? I do know that people who sin love to question other peoples "motives" for exposing their sin. They believe it's their "trump" card.[/quote]
[/quote]

I guess you proved your point...and in the process revealed the innane, ignorant...illogic theDividedone uses.
I think we are just giving him undeserved credence by replying to him, he's going to christen my Ignoramous List here....

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]You are about as obtuse as they get. Everything I said is true. How I presented it is true.

When I said that the truth can't be GOSSIP... I was referencing the way that people understand the word "Gossip" in relation to the Scripture they use to support such beliefs. Which are in fact, not entirely accurate. Call it a contradiction if you like. I see no contradiction. What I said was in context of what I went on to explain. There is a disconnect between what the Scriptures say and what people perceive to be "gossip".

Heh...

Gossip is truth except where it isn't truth. It's a matter of motivation except where it isn't. It is the same as tale-bearing and slander except where it's not the same.



Do you find it easier to make your arguments (convincing) when you can just change what words mean to suit your purposes whenever you feel like it?

(It is apparently a common tactic for among some circles...)
[/quote]

Its not my fault you know nothing of Biblical languages and how to apply them. You're the "numbnut" that wants to define the Scriptures with a 21st century vocabulary. Have you ever heard term "Higher Critic"? Do you even know what it means? I expect a IFB to reject such a thing but YOU???

Many verses in the Scriptures deals with "slander" alone. Which by definition is a LIE. Some modern versions have replaced the word "slander" with "gossip". They do so because they have very little understand of the difference. I try to be precise in what I believe. Obviously you could care less.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=rsc2a][quote author=christundivided]Often people confuse the truth with gossip. When they are faced with the truth, instead of own up to the stark realities truth brings, they simply yell. "Gossip".

Gossip is more about motivation than truth. You can say something true and it still be gossip if the point of saying it is to make someone look bad or tear someone down.

No its not...

[quote author=christundivided]The use of the word "gossip" today does not accurately reflect the use of "talebearer" and "slander" in the Scriptures. Both carry the "connotations" of a lie or purposed evil.

[quote author=christundivided]You then proceed to think you can judge "gossip" by "motive" alone. I could care less about motive. I care about whether it is the truth or not. If it is TRUE... then who cares about motive? I do know that people who sin love to question other peoples "motives" for exposing their sin. They believe it's their "trump" card.

[/quote]

I guess you proved your point...and in the process revealed the innane, ignorant...illogic theDividedone uses.
I think we are just giving him undeserved credence by replying to him, he's going to christen my Ignoramous List here....
[/quote]

I'd never believed you and rsc2a would turn out to be buddies. I'd say that will be short lived "friendship".

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Its not my fault you know nothing of Biblical languages and how to apply them.[/quote]

I've asked before: what does my knowledge (or lack thereof) of Koine Greek have to do with the fact that you are making contradictory statements?

[quote author=christundivided]You're the "numbnut"...[/quote]

How Christ-like...  :

[quote author=christundivided]...that wants to define the Scriptures with a 21st century vocabulary. Have you ever heard term "Higher Critic"? Do you even know what it means? I expect a IFB to reject such a thing but YOU???[/quote]

Weren't you the one asking me to defend the definition of English words using dead languages? (Hint: It doesn't work in the other way either.)

[quote author=christundivided]Many verses in the Scriptures deals with "slander" alone.[/quote]

Actually, many verses deal with topics like " דִּבָּה " or "διάβολος".

Some English translators have decided is a close equivalent to "slander" in certain areas. Other English translators have decided it is a close equivalent of "gossip". Additionally, those English translators who decided it was close to slander thought it was close to other words in other parts of the text. Looking at lexicons and concordances, the word could be a close equivalent to either one.

[quote author=christundivided]Which by definition is a LIE.[/quote]

Yes, slander by definition, is a lie. But the word isn't slander. (Hint: The Scriptures weren't written in English.)

[quote author=christundivided]Some modern versions have replaced the word "slander" with "gossip". They do so because they have very little understand of the difference. I try to be precise in what I believe. Obviously you could care less.[/quote]

Because you obviously have a greater understanding of Greek than the people who have spent their lives studying it?

 

[Izdaari]

I have no idea what this thread is about now, since it appears to have taken off down various rabbit trails. But in answer to the OP, I don't like gossip, and I avoid listening to it and participating in it.

 

[christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]Its not my fault you know nothing of Biblical languages and how to apply them.

I've asked before: what does my knowledge (or lack thereof) of Koine Greek have to do with the fact that you are making contradictory statements?[/quote]

VIC...is that you? Who would have thought you would have been here the entire time. How have you been able to restrain yourself?

I didn't contradiction myself and that is the last I'll say about it.

[quote author=christundivided]You're the "numbnut"...

How Christ-like...  :[/quote]

Its not anymore offensive then saying something is stupid. Did you get your little feelings hurt?

Actually, many verses deal with topics like " דִּבָּה " or "διάβολος".

If you had done it much.... (which you obviously haven't) you'd know its difficult to post ancient languages in any forum. I can make out "The Slanderer" but that's it. Maybe you can spell it out instead of tying to post the symbols.

Some English translators have decided is a close equivalent to "slander" in certain areas. Other English translators have decided it is a close equivalent of "gossip". Additionally, those English translators who decided it was close to slander thought it was close to other words in other parts of the text. Looking at lexicons and concordances, the word could be a close equivalent to either one.

Not really. The reason you get such varying translations is that some prefer to let the context of a passage influence the overall translation of individual words. Some prefer to focus on each individual word exclusively. The latter often causes mistakes. The various translations don't often compliment each other.

Question that should put this to rest for you. Since you believe that gossip and slander are close equivalents.... Then by all means provide a reference that lists "gossip" as a synonym for "slander".

Those that try to use the word "gossip", when "slander" is more appropriate, are making a mistake.

You really should study the Etymology of "gossip". Its meaning has greatly changed over time and culture.

[quote author=christundivided]Which by definition is a LIE.[/quote]

Yes, slander by definition, is a lie. But the word isn't slander. (Hint: The Scriptures weren't written in English.)

[quote author=christundivided]Some modern versions have replaced the word "slander" with "gossip". They do so because they have very little understand of the difference. I try to be precise in what I believe. Obviously you could care less.

Because you obviously have a greater understanding of Greek than the people who have spent their lives studying it?[/quote]

Those that spend their lives studying it... disagree. You do know that don't you? I can make my own choice based on the information. Nice to talk to you again VIC.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]Its not my fault you know nothing of Biblical languages and how to apply them.

I've asked before: what does my knowledge (or lack thereof) of Koine Greek have to do with the fact that you are making contradictory statements?

VIC...is that you? Who would have thought you would have been here the entire time. How have you been able to restrain yourself?

I didn't contradiction myself and that is the last I'll say about it.[/quote]

It's apparent that you didn't say that one thing then say the opposite despite quotes from you showing otherwise.  :

[quote author=christundivided]

[quote author=christundivided]You're the "numbnut"...

How Christ-like...  :[/quote]

Its not anymore offensive then saying something is stupid. Did you get your little feelings hurt?[/quote]

Remember that conversation we had about attacking ideas and attacking people?

Yeah...you might want to re-read that again.


[quote author=christundivided]

Actually, many verses deal with topics like " דִּבָּה " or "διάβολος".

If you had done it much.... (which you obviously haven't) you'd know its difficult to post ancient languages in any forum. I can make out "The Slanderer" but that's it. Maybe you can spell it out instead of tying to post the symbols. [/quote]

It was intentional. And thanks for reinforcing my point. The languages don't even use the same letters.

[quote author=christundivided]

Some English translators have decided is a close equivalent to "slander" in certain areas. Other English translators have decided it is a close equivalent of "gossip". Additionally, those English translators who decided it was close to slander thought it was close to other words in other parts of the text. Looking at lexicons and concordances, the word could be a close equivalent to either one.

Not really. The reason you get such varying translations is that some prefer to let the context of a passage influence the overall translation of individual words. Some prefer to focus on each individual word exclusively. The latter often causes mistakes. The various translations don't often compliment each other. [/quote]

The reason you get varying translation is because there often isn't a one-to-one correspondence between words in different languages, especially when those languages are separated by 2000 or more years.

[quote author=christundivided]Question that should put this to rest for you. Since you believe that gossip and slander are close equivalents.... Then by all means provide a reference that lists "gossip" as a synonym for "slander".

Those that try to use the word "gossip", when "slander" is more appropriate, are making a mistake.

You really should study the Etymology of "gossip". Its meaning has greatly changed over time and culture.[/quote]

http://www.wordreference.com/thesaurus/slander

Next?

[quote author=christundivided]Those that spend their lives studying it... disagree. You do know that don't you?[/quote]

Not really all that much...

[quote author=christundivided]I can make my own choice based on the information.[/quote]

...Yet you are the first person I've heard that says it is perfectly acceptable to tear someone down just for the sake of tearing them down provided your words are true.

 

[christundivided]

You really should study the Etymology of "gossip". Its meaning has greatly changed over time and culture.

http://www.wordreference.com/thesaurus/slander

Next?[/quote]

What a source. Is it okay that I use "blackwash" instead of slander. That was hilarious. What a reference. It took awhile to find that didn't. I imagine if you build it... they will come.

...Yet you are the first person I've heard that says it is perfectly acceptable to tear someone down just for the sake of tearing them down provided your words are true.

I'm sorry you can't take it. I really can't get it Vic. You're usually a little smarter than that. This new kind side to you really doesn't fit.

Are you really telling me that I can't "run down" a Jehovah's witness by telling the truth about them? Really?

Its been interesting Vic but I'm tired of the run around. Have at it.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=christundivided]
You really should study the Etymology of "gossip". Its meaning has greatly changed over time and culture.

http://www.wordreference.com/thesaurus/slander

Next?

What a source. Is it okay that I use "blackwash" instead of slander. That was hilarious. What a reference. It took awhile to find that didn't. I imagine if you build it... they will come.[/quote]

See moving the goalposts.

[quote author=christundivided]

...Yet you are the first person I've heard that says it is perfectly acceptable to tear someone down just for the sake of tearing them down provided your words are true.

I'm sorry you can't take it. I really can't get it Vic. You're usually a little smarter than that. This new kind side to you really doesn't fit.

Are you really telling me that I can't "run down" a Jehovah's witness by telling the truth about them? Really?

Its been interesting Vic but I'm tired of the run around. Have at it.[/quote]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Honestly tell me: how is tearing someone down just for the sake of tearing them down a picture of the Christ?

 

[lnf]

Christundivided said:

so you know other peoples motives? Mind reader? Have long have you had this gift?

lnf responds:  Not every time, of course, but sometimes I can and do correctly discern motive.

Christundivided said:
I know you think you know my motives.... but you don't.

lnf responds:
Mind reader?  How long have you had this gift?  ???  Actually, I don't have a good read on you, yet.  But give me some time to get to know you. 

Christundivided said:
Matt 18:15-17 doesn't have anything to do with criminal law.

lnf responds:
Nothing in my post referenced criminal activity.  The subject was gossip.

 

[Sherryh]

Are we sure christundivided isn't Deacon Nut job ? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've used my ignore button on this one 

 

[lnf]

Sherryh, I would be surprised it they are one and the same.  Not the same style to the posts, as I see it.  Deacon is quite a bit less conversational, meaning that he doesn't generally respond to individual posts.

PS:  Ha, Ha!  Maybe the reason Deacon is less conversational is because no one talks to him!

 

[cave_dweller]

yes but even though something is true it is still wrongful to go to others and spread discord. When you go to someone else that does not have the power or authority to deal with the sitution then that is wrong. you are just trying to cause drama and strife

So I have to have authority to personally deal with the circumstances OR, I'm actually gossiping? Are you serious?

I see your mentality. Only those in authority actually have a right to openly discuss any issue. Is that what you're saying?

No. What I am saying is if you know something about another that is worth mentioning you should go to someone in a position of authority in that matter so tha the matter can be handled. If it is something of a criminal matter you go to the police. If you divulge this information to one who does not have the ability to fix the situation what are you accomplishing. I am a mangaer in my field of work. If one of my employees has an issue with another then they need to come to me. If they partake in ""water cooler talk" that breeds negativity and strife in the office. yes I am serious by the way

Oh. I see. You're seeing it from a "managers" perspective. We'll. I've managed people before. I always tried to see it from their perspective. There is nothing wrong with "water cooler talk". In fact, people need to vent sometimes. Nothing sinful about it. Nothing wrong about it. To call it gossip so you can "shut it down". Is just plain silly. Maybe they know your history of "dealing with things". Maybe they want a sympathetic ear.

What about your decisions. Is it alright is someone questions your managerial decisions? I do it sometimes. I think they make mistakes.

Yes..... I have an open door policy. I have one word for you......... ethics

Ethics demands someone only talk to you about your bad decisions? An "open door" changes nothing. Do they just get to hear the decision again?

I think you just throw out the first amendment. Is the first amendment causing people to sin by allowing gossip? I hope you do know that "slander" isn't covered by the first amendment and it shouldn't be. Now.... calling bad decisions "stupid" or just plain "wrong"....?

Thank God for the first amendment and the truth of the Scriptures.

All freedom comes with limitations beavis. Go ahead and talk bad about your boss behind his back at work, because that always works out for the best.

 

[cave_dweller]

Are we sure christundivided isn't Deacon Nut job ? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've used my ignore button on this one 

Who knows? He belongs in a funny farm 

 

[Sherryh]

This whole thread gives me a headache ..............LOL!

Thank you Admin for the ignore button God is good!!!!

Is invictius here? tell me who you are please

 

[HeDied4U]

This whole thread gives me a headache ..............LOL!

Thank you Admin for the ignore button God is good!!!!

Is invictius here? tell me who you are please

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[cave_dweller]

This whole thread gives me a headache ..............LOL!

Thank you Admin for the ignore button God is good!!!!

Is invictius here? tell me who you are please

Sorry, couldn't resist.

ROFL!