Views on teetotalling

[rsc2a]

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Again, you are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.[/quote]

Strange statement from someone denying the obvious implication of texts that clearly refer to aged wine.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Texts, from both secular and religious writings, makes it abundantly clear that the Greek word oinos, like the Latin vinum and the English wine, was often used as a generic term to refer either to fermented or unfermented grape juice. [/quote]

You use the word "wine" to refer to grape juice?

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]I am not arguing it is a sin to take a drink...but, this 'God wants you to kill a beer after work at the local bar' argument is bogus.[/quote]

The argument is that God doesn't care if you kill a beer, not that He commanding it. What's absurd is the idea that everyone who has a drink must be trying to get drunk.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Do YOU believe every reference to wine is scripture is to fermented, alcoholic beverage?[/quote]

Unless it explicitly states that the juice is freshly pressed, then yes.

It's simple biology. It's also a widely accepted fact that there were no cultural prohibitions against alcohol in either NT or OT times, quite the opposite in fact. At times, people were supposed to drink. (e.g. Passover) Furthermore, the whole argument for prohibition only occurred in the last 150 years or so, and for the previous 1800+ years of church history, Christians would have thought you were nuts to even make the claim the the Bible supported a prohibition argument.

[quote author=Tarheel Baptist]Again, I am not arguing drinking is sinful...being drunk IS...don't you agree?
[/quote]

I agree. I have also heard a compelling argument that this may not always be the case, even though I'm not fully convinced.

 

[Thomas Cassidy]

To drink or not to drink beverage alcohol is an individual choice and part of our Christian liberty.

I follow Paul's advice to Timothy (and the recommendation of my doctor) to "take a little wine for the stomach's sake."

I pour a glass of wine in the evening just before bed. I drink it the biblical way, cut with water of a soft drink such as 7 Up.


The alcohol in the wine helps me metabolize the medications I take in the evening for my heart and assists in getting a good night's sleep
.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

If wine and strong drink are a blessing from God (and the Bible says they are) then receiving that blessing and enjoying it makes my life better.

I imagine that you teach this to your children?

I do, certainly, because it is clearly what the Bible teaches. Are you saying that you don't because you have more wisdom than God?

What verses do you use to teach your children God wants them to drink and blesses them for it?

(later, paraphrasing)

Where does the Bible extols the virtues of drinking?

You're being intellectually dishonest and immature here with your straw man arguments.  I said (as have others) that the Bible says wine and strong drink are a blessing.  You keep changing that into stuff like "God wants you to drink", which we all know appears nowhere in the Bible directly, although its virtue in certain cases is stated -- rejoicing, forgetting your misery for a while, easing your pain as you perish, etc. 

In addition, the favorite verse of anti-alcohol people, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise" cannot mean what you think it means if the Bible elsewhere names alcohol as a blessing.  I think what you're missing is, "whoever is deceived by them is not wise", just as whoever is deceived by his/her taste for salty fat and eats a family size bag of potato chips in one sitting is not being wise. 

EDIT:  I kind of like that, actually.  The Bible should include a verse like, "Potato chips are a mocker, and deep fried cheese sticks are a stomach brawler.  Whoever is deceived by them is a fool."  And...

"Do not gaze at a bowl of nachos when it is yellow, dripping with melted cheese.  In the end it fattens like a bucket of lard."

I certainly don't mean to be dishonest in any way....immature is another matter perhaps 

I assumed you understood hyperbole....sorry I took you for granted.

Again, I have not...one time....argued for a Biblical standard of abstinence.
I say you are disingenuous in your  'God meant alcohol as a wonderful blessing' argument. The use of alcohol comes with a warning...specific to alcohol use.
I say it is you who have a straw man argument with potato chips or nachos....

A reasonable and viable comparison would be, as I have stated, borrowing money or indebtedness. It is not a sin but comes with specific warnings.

I don't want my children or grandchildren to be obese, drunkards or paupers who are slaves to debt.

Again, you have no verses or context in scripture to promote or celebrate the use of alcohol. Neither do I haven such to prevent your drinking it....and for the record, I don't give a rat's hiney if you drink, teach your children to drink.....or if you have a still in your garage and sell it on the playground as liquid blessing....just choose not to do that myself!  ;D

 

[brianb]

I'm going to weigh in on this with some boring facts.

Typically, red wine is fermented at temperatures up to 85 F. Since grape harvesting happens in the spring, fermentation is unavoidable.

Alcoholic content depends on the amount of sugar that is contained in the grapes. There are grapes for eating (table grapes) that are low in sugar and grapes (called wine grapes) that are used for wine-making. If just the sugar in the grapes is used that would produce a bottle of wine with 10-20% Alcohol content. In ancient times wine was typically 15%.

The ancient Jews didn't drink out of cups like the Gentiles did. They had these small bowls instead. They would not have been drinking as much as the Gentiles would nor would they eat as much. Also the average Jew would have been shorter in stature (under 5' 6"). The percentage of alcohol really doesn't matter as much as the amount they would be drinking