What world are you in that you would think Obama's ides are christian ideas? That suppressing Christianity while promoting racial division, the gay agenda, Islam and socialism at every turn portrays christian values. I believe he has a good home life and I think he has been a decent example as a father & husband for young people. In regards to his policies & executive orders he has done nothing to make me think he is a saved man.Smellin Coffee said:
The Presidential Vote
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I think Trump will be the least christian republican president in many years. Some of our past presidents had failings but most professed to be saved men. Trumps lifestyle is far from what I would call "Christian". His relationship & business ventures in gambling, bars & entertainment leave a lot to be desired. His former position on abortion concerns me as well. He does not appear to be faithful to church attendance in any way and there is very little indication he uses morality or the Bible as a guide in his decision making.
That being said I strongly believe his policies will be far more christian friendly than his rival. I believe his supreme court appointees will be 500% better for our nation than her's and I do not think he will not be openly anti christian as she will likely be. I also feel his domestic & foreign policy will be far better for this countries than what we have seen for the past 8 years. He is "LIKELY" to shake up the republicans some as well.
I would not choose him for my pastor or personal adviser, nor was he my first choice, but he is the best option we have at this point.
That being said I strongly believe his policies will be far more christian friendly than his rival. I believe his supreme court appointees will be 500% better for our nation than her's and I do not think he will not be openly anti christian as she will likely be. I also feel his domestic & foreign policy will be far better for this countries than what we have seen for the past 8 years. He is "LIKELY" to shake up the republicans some as well.
I would not choose him for my pastor or personal adviser, nor was he my first choice, but he is the best option we have at this point.
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sword said:
My opinion is Obama is a mixed bag. I don't believe he is oppressing true Christianity nor do I believe he was willfully promoting racial division. The gay agenda? Whether or not one believes homosexuality is sinful, that wouldn't change the fact that gay people are being discriminated against and as an American with freedoms, should have the right to marriage. There are many gay people who are followers of Jesus Christ. Islam? We have the freedom of religion in this country and everybody should be allowed to practice their own religion without fear of being physically assaulted as such. Socialism is neither pro- nor anti-biblical. Neither is capitalism. If anything, the OT Israel was pretty socialist in the way it was to be set up and the prophets were constantly in the face of the Israelites for their national neglect of the marginalized as they were living in disobedience to God in their failure of social care programs.
I completely disagree with Obama's position of abortion. I believe abortion is murder (in 99% of those situations). His belief is that the right of the mother trumps the right of the child and although I see his point, I highly disagree with it. I am not an Obama fan. I never voted for him and if he could run for a third term, would still not vote for him. But I believe Hillary will be worse than Obama, but time will tell.
In essence, when it comes to the demonstration of one loving his neighbor as himself, Obama displays more grace than does Trump. Granted, the term is 'displays' and I can't read the heart of either man.
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Smellin Coffee said:
Please explain to me who in the world are we supposed to vote for??????
If I write someone in...they ain't gonna win!!!! If I don't vote Hillary wins. Morally speaking the entire system is bankrupt, therefore why not Trump in this situation??
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sword said:
And THIS is a big problem with me. God didn't put us in the world to make it more "Christian-friendly". If anything, we should be producing political enemies with our love for the marginalized. We should be going to bat for the oppressed, hurting, poor, elderly, unborn, ill, immigrants, marginalized, victimized, mentally ill and societal misfits. Government, whether it be socialistic or capitalistic, be damned!
This world is NOT my home. Why would I try to make it "Christian-friendly"?
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Smellin Coffee said:
Because hopefully ur grandkids and great grandkids will be preaching the gospel somewhere without being oppressed tortured or watching there kids and spouses sought after.
I'm sure John Bunyan would've much rathered to preach without the oppression if anything for his family's sake.
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Bruh said:
Is this world our home? Is God in control no matter who wins? Why are we voting to win at a game we are not even real players? How is it ethical to vote simply to keep an opponent out of office?
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Bruh said:
Yet history has proven over and over, revival happens in places of trials and persecution. TRUE conversions, not simply a spread of a particular religious tenet. Why do you want to remove the environment that God uses to develop people who actually trust HIM instead of their government, abilities and freedoms?
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This is what happens with the church goes to bed with politics (in general):
Even if Christians believe they can create a government of their own ideals, they won't be able to stem the tide of power WHEN it goes wrong. Voting down party lines out of fear is not a demonstration of faith in God, but rather insecurity, demonstrating a belief that God cannot change things according to His plan.
Bonhoeffer:
Even if Christians believe they can create a government of their own ideals, they won't be able to stem the tide of power WHEN it goes wrong. Voting down party lines out of fear is not a demonstration of faith in God, but rather insecurity, demonstrating a belief that God cannot change things according to His plan.
Bonhoeffer:
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Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin, you keep talking about compassion for others.
The bible teaches us to care for others personally. You want to take my money and give it to others in need. I have not heard you once talk about what you personally want to do for the needy. When you talk about giving to the poor you are referring to giving my money not yours.
As I travel across the country I see what liberal policies and programs have done to our inner cities. I see young men and women living in 3rd generation welfare homes. Homes where no one has worked a job in several generations. I see endless poverty & despair with no ambition & no escape. I see cities filled with children from single parent homes. Regardless of race I see cities filled with people expecting the government to fix their problems & care for their needs. I see people who choose not to look for work because the have extended extended extended unemployment or disability. Moms who can't work because they will lose the benefits their children need. Free school lunches (which I'm for) dumped in the garbage by the tons because the kids don't like them or want them. Subsidized housing that the residents nearly tear down & won't care for. Shoppers with wick cards buying steak & lobster while working class people working 2 jobs to buy rice & beans & maybe some chicken or pork. I see the unemployed buying their newly legalized weed but are too sick or lazy to mow a few lawns to earn some money.
Next time you talk about compassion talk about what you plan to do or what you plan to give, not what you want to take from me to "care for others".
From time to time I meet a family where the dad worked several jobs to get out of the inner city mess and now the next generation are in college & doing well. I often meet people who walked away from the welfare state and through hard work and determination changed their families lives. That's the kinda help I'm for. That's the kinda help I want to support.
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Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:
Ya gotta love Liberals!
They love to TALK about money spent showing compassion...that's gubmit money.
But, I know conservatives that actually put THEIR money where Liberal's mouth's are...
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sword said:Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin, you keep talking about compassion for others.
The bible teaches us to care for others personally. You want to take my money and give it to others in need. I have not heard you once talk about what you personally want to do for the needy. When you talk about giving to the poor you are referring to giving my money not yours.
As I travel across the country I see what liberal policies and programs have done to our inner cities. I see young men and women living in 3rd generation welfare homes. Homes where no one has worked a job in several generations. I see endless poverty & despair with no ambition & no escape. I see cities filled with children from single parent homes. Regardless of race I see cities filled with people expecting the government to fix their problems & care for their needs. I see people who choose not to look for work because the have extended extended extended unemployment or disability. Moms who can't work because they will lose the benefits their children need. Free school lunches (which I'm for) dumped in the garbage by the tons because the kids don't like them or want them. Subsidized housing that the residents nearly tear down & won't care for. Shoppers with wick cards buying steak & lobster while working class people working 2 jobs to buy rice & beans & maybe some chicken or pork. I see the unemployed buying their newly legalized weed but are too sick or lazy to mow a few lawns to earn some money.
Next time you talk about compassion talk about what you plan to do or what you plan to give, not what you want to take from me to "care for others".
From time to time I meet a family where the dad worked several jobs to get out of the inner city mess and now the next generation are in college & doing well. I often meet people who walked away from the welfare state and through hard work and determination changed their families lives. That's the kinda help I'm for. That's the kinda help I want to support.
I don't need to publicize anything. The people and organizations with which I am involved and the people to whom we minister are the only ones that need to know. Besides, you shouldn't be following me anyway, you should be following what Christ taught.
Remember, God had a public assistance program when He set up Israel. You are right, that throwing money at the problem doesn't resolve it, but we are talking about people who CAN'T work or who are way underemployed. Are there abusers of the system? Yep. But should a teenage, single mom and her baby be denied healthcare because some lazy people abuse the system? Should the mentally ill homeless not be given food? And so what if there are addicts? Are they not addicted for a reason? Should we close all government programs which can help them back on their feet? How do ex-cons get a job with their history? If they try and can't get a job, where do they get their daily feed and how do they support their kids? And the elderly? People who HAVE worked? Homeless vets? People who have given their bodies and mental health for the country who can't get healthcare and are eating out of garbage cans?
As a society, should we not be the 'keeper' of our brethren? Or should our CEOs hoard goods while watching the middle-class disappear and poverty increase because those in the middle-class, who are deserving and hard working, are becoming poor in doing so?
Do you really believe that without these 'liberal policies' that our poverty would be eliminated, that every child would have a good education, most all healthcare costs covered, that the homeless will all find shelters if not homes? Who will house the teens who are homeless because they run away from their abusive relatives?
Look at Africa for countries that DO NOT have those government programs. Are their economies thriving, people all fed, sheltered and taken care of medically? With NO government help, our country is leading the way in helping take care of these people.
Do government programs work perfectly or even efficiently? No. Do they help? They do help some. South Africa has made some improvements. How? government programs.
Source
In our area, there are many IT jobs that include former inner-city people of color. They worked hard to get where they are but have shared with me how they survived as kids because they were able to get government assistance. One friend, a professional psychologist who grew up on the streets of NJ, had reiterated over and over again that his mom had to work 2 part time jobs for he and his sister to make it out. But if they didn't have government housing given to them, she would have been homeless and the homeless cannot get jobs. Without government help, he would be unable to help others now because he would be either homeless, in jail or dead. Obama is another example of someone who, while growing up, was on government assistance and was able to get out of the mess.
Granted, I am not for communism but the Bi-partisan polices that steal from the poor to line the pockets of the rich and erode the existence of the middle-class is socially unacceptable. Are liberal policies at fault? Yep. But so are conservative policies! The only difference is the liberal side seems to want to elicit help (though they are using the poor to develop their own power base) whereas the conservative side seems to refuse to take civil or social responsibility.
Here is an example within the last couple days. How is a WORKING mom to pay $2200 per month solely for medical supplies to keep her daughter alive while having to pay living expenses as well? Not to mention her diabetic husband and his medical needs.
Mississippi Rep. Jeffrey Guice Tells Mom Of Diabetic Child To Buy Supplies ?With Money That You Earn?
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Tarheel Baptist said:Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:
Ya gotta love Liberals!
They love to TALK about money spent showing compassion...that's gubmit money.
But, I know conservatives that actually put THEIR money where Liberal's mouth's are...
And yet, I know many liberals that actually put THEIR money through personal ministering and partnering with the non-profits as well as calling for social responsibility.
Despite the lies you wish to portray, compassion is not partisan.
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Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:Smellin Coffee said:Tarheel Baptist said:
Ya gotta love Liberals!
They love to TALK about money spent showing compassion...that's gubmit money.
But, I know conservatives that actually put THEIR money where Liberal's mouth's are...
And yet, I know many liberals that actually put THEIR money through personal ministering and partnering with the non-profits as well as calling for social responsibility.
Despite the lies you wish to portray, compassion is not partisan.
I know a guy who had a cow with 5 legs!
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This is what happens when liberal socialist democrat policies are completely instituted:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin
We have a safety net in place and it is working. The problem is we have created a system where people fall into the safety net and not only can not get out, but for the next 2 generations the same family is still trapped in the net. The problem with many in Washington is they like spending other peoples money and it's never enough.
You keep talking about what the democrats do. All I'm saying is stop talking about all "They do" with my money. You talked about the ex-con who can not find work. The problem is there are 1000's of people working 60 hrs a week to pay him to do nothing. Vets need job I agree, Ex cons need jobs as well, people with physical limitations need job for sure, but sending them a check to stay home does not help them. Creating jobs, reducing illegal Immigration & job retraining & placement is the answer. If the 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal immigrants went back home there would be jobs for the unemployed. I also recall in the Clinton & Reagan Economies young people and people with special situations & even those here on work visas could find jobs. We need to stop shipping our work & money overseas & take care of our own.
I am all for programs that create jobs and put people to work. We spend billions on foreign aid and defense, We also let some large companies dodge U.S. taxes by keeping money overseas. I'm for spending some to create jobs expand industry. Instead of someone sitting home on some program lets subsidize a return to work program that gets them working. Instead of sending checks, lets use that money to get people doing community service jobs & things that help the local community for a check. I'm for helping people pay rent but lets get them into inner city abandoned homes so they can make it their own. I'm for free lunches for kids (breakfast & lunch in most states including the summer) but let's figure out a way to not waste so much and provide lunches the kids want to eat.
I'm not sure about you but I work very hard (6 days a week) to pay my bills and provide for my family. When someone says the rich (over $75,000 a year) need to do more it is usually someone who works part time or not at all. In our system someone can stay home and get extended unemployment & sometimes disability or welfare for doing nothing and the next guy can work 2 jobs (60 + hrs a week) trying to get ahead and he has to pay for the guy who is not even looking for a job. I give a great deal of money (for my income) to charity and do not regret any of it. Its the money that is taken from me and used unwisely that gives me heartburn.
We have a safety net in place and it is working. The problem is we have created a system where people fall into the safety net and not only can not get out, but for the next 2 generations the same family is still trapped in the net. The problem with many in Washington is they like spending other peoples money and it's never enough.
You keep talking about what the democrats do. All I'm saying is stop talking about all "They do" with my money. You talked about the ex-con who can not find work. The problem is there are 1000's of people working 60 hrs a week to pay him to do nothing. Vets need job I agree, Ex cons need jobs as well, people with physical limitations need job for sure, but sending them a check to stay home does not help them. Creating jobs, reducing illegal Immigration & job retraining & placement is the answer. If the 15,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal immigrants went back home there would be jobs for the unemployed. I also recall in the Clinton & Reagan Economies young people and people with special situations & even those here on work visas could find jobs. We need to stop shipping our work & money overseas & take care of our own.
I am all for programs that create jobs and put people to work. We spend billions on foreign aid and defense, We also let some large companies dodge U.S. taxes by keeping money overseas. I'm for spending some to create jobs expand industry. Instead of someone sitting home on some program lets subsidize a return to work program that gets them working. Instead of sending checks, lets use that money to get people doing community service jobs & things that help the local community for a check. I'm for helping people pay rent but lets get them into inner city abandoned homes so they can make it their own. I'm for free lunches for kids (breakfast & lunch in most states including the summer) but let's figure out a way to not waste so much and provide lunches the kids want to eat.
I'm not sure about you but I work very hard (6 days a week) to pay my bills and provide for my family. When someone says the rich (over $75,000 a year) need to do more it is usually someone who works part time or not at all. In our system someone can stay home and get extended unemployment & sometimes disability or welfare for doing nothing and the next guy can work 2 jobs (60 + hrs a week) trying to get ahead and he has to pay for the guy who is not even looking for a job. I give a great deal of money (for my income) to charity and do not regret any of it. Its the money that is taken from me and used unwisely that gives me heartburn.
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sword said:
I agree with most of what you have said. But it is easier said than done. Corporations like Walmart are taking government subsidies and paying their employees enough not to qualify for government assistance, but not a livable wage, especially when one has a family involved. So Walmart (the rich) is getting richer off our taxes but because they minimally employ, they look like the heroes while becoming richer. In the meantime, the adults that work in these stores, have to have multiple jobs to put food on the table, pay rent and even transportation to get to those jobs. Then they are expected to raise a family and are judged for not spending enough time with them? Same way with the black community. We put and keep their daddies in jail and blame the black population for being fatherless.
That aside, there have been times I've been unemployed, where government assistance helped me through to the other side. I've had 2 stints of at least 6 months of unemployment. The last one almost sunk us because I was out of work for 8 months with 4 kids and a wife to take care of. Lazy? I couldn't get a job for anything. I submitted over 600 resume's and job applications and did 35 interviews before I was offered anything. That offer was 35% pay cut to what I had been making. I took it, am still with the company and still making less than I did at that other job 10 years ago.
Point is, even though I did all the odd jobs I could find, (including scanning bras for inventory at Target at 2 am one time), without the benefit of government food stamps and unemployment benefits, we would have had to foreclose on our home, declare bankruptcy and be sunk financially. And I am a white male. If I can't find a job, how are we to expect inner-city people, specifically people of color living there, to be able to make enough for sustainable living on their own? Sometimes it isn't about laziness; sometimes it is about lost hope. Does government money fix it? Nope. But it does sustain some people.
I also am for regulating and monitoring and restricting abusers of the system. But there DOES need to be a system in place. If we had an Amish society where one another would take care of each other, that would actually be preferable in my book. However, our country is build on individualism, not community, so even though Republicans continue to preach "rugged individualism", they are destroying the idea of community needed to help people who really do need it.
Despite what Tarheel wants to claim about me, I am not a liberal Democrat. I consider myself a Libertarian with a social conscience, believing that as a society, we, AS CITIZENS, should be united in helping those who really need it. I believe this aligns with my Christian values as well. I realize educating and employment is the key to getting some people out of the generational mess they are in, but it is easier for those of us outside the pit to tell them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they are actually in paralysis of fear. And churches of all religions in general are not stepping up to deal with these issues. Granted, many are, but they are limited in what they can do. How many have programs for the mentally ill? How many can provide funds for the elderly in the community that can't afford their life-sustaining medicines? How many can provide crisis centers for runaway teens? This isn't a condemnation on the church by any means, but rather showing there is more need out there than what is or can be provided. At what point does society itself step in? And those who don't have a social conscience or are racist, can they really be expected to help? If there was a better solution than government, I'm all for it. The problem is too vast that we as a society have to step in and help with the problem. If it could be monitored better and people held accountable to limit abuse, that would be wonderful. But in the meantime, I'm don't want to be the one to tell the Pompe patient that her last treatment next week will be all she will get, so she will have to slowly die despite having 3 kids under the age of 10, simply because the government won't step in and pay for the enzyme treatments. So if she can get help along with an abuser taking advantage, I'm for it. I would rather it be one or the other but I will take the "all" over the "nothing".
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I don't 'claim anything about you, specifically. You self identify yourself by your posts.
To quote you...'If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck'. And on the fff, you walk and quack like a liberal socialist democrat duck. If you say you aren't, who am i to disagree, but you should tell your posts and positions.
Your and democrat gubmit solutions only serve to keep people in poverty and dependent on the gubmit. And, if the policies you espouse and defend here are fully implemented you have post WWII Germany, post Communism's fall Russia, Cuba and Venezuela (I may have mentioned that before). According to your posts, I'm more Libertarian than you are, by a long shot.
Liberalism is idiotic because they continue to propose and impose failed policies as solutions!
Liberalism, by definition, is a mental disorder (repeat the same action expecting a different result)...