The Mega-Thread for COVID Evangelists

1st case of new variant in the U.S. was brought here by a fully vaccinated man.
 
Twisted said:
Well, DUH, since the vaccinated are the ones creating the variants.
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Giving you a credible platform goes against my better sense, but here goes anyway. Why in the world would you say that the variants are created by those who've been vaccinated?
 
voicecrying said:
1st case of new variant in the U.S. was brought here by a fully vaccinated man.
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What do you infer from this, or what do you find to be significant regarding this singular development?
 
ALAYMAN said:
What do you infer from this, or what do you find to be significant regarding this singular development?
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The original claim was that vaccines would end the pandemic. Truth be told, vaccines don't prevent infection or spread. THe jab only lessens the severity for the one jabbed.
 
voicecrying said:
The original claim was that vaccines would end the pandemic. Truth be told, vaccines don't prevent infection or spread. THe jab only lessens the severity for the one jabbed.
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You know I highly respect you, so don't take this further probing/questioning in any antagonistic way, but true inquisitiveness on my part towards somebody who I mostly agree with regularly on most all social and theological issues.

The "jab" not only lessens severity, but also death potential for those susceptible to Covid. That is important to not omit in the totality of consideration in the scheme of those most at risk. Secondly, as long as the idea of herd immunity is not achieved via worldwide vaccination and/or infection it will continue to be a goal to get the entirety of (including thirdworld) the globe's population to participate in the reduction of infections, so that mutation is not as likely to occur. Lastly, break-through infections occur, and this is not surprising or new news. In addition, the percent efficacy naturally allows for the possibility of this "fully" vaccinated person to have been a breakthrough case. Context matters, and in this story, the person hasn't been boosted, meaning that if their first vaccine and second vaccine were received more than 6 months ago then their immune system protection likely was greatly compromised.

I say all this, because it is often the case that life-problems are very complex and takes great analysis of all relevant facts before understanding enough to make informed decisions that affect things which ultimately translate into public policy matters. I think you give great consideration to things before rendering your verdict, and have zero problem with you coming to differing conclusions that me or anybody else who may be at odds with your perspective, but wish that ALL people on both sides of the issue wouldn't engage in willful confirmation bias when they make a final decision on how to best combat this serious problem. God bless you and yours bro.
 
j
ALAYMAN said:
You know I highly respect you, so don't take this further probing/questioning in any antagonistic way, but true inquisitiveness on my part towards somebody who I mostly agree with regularly on most all social and theological issues.

The "jab" not only lessens severity, but also death potential for those susceptible to Covid. That is important to not omit in the totality of consideration in the scheme of those most at risk. Secondly, as long as the idea of herd immunity is not achieved via worldwide vaccination and/or infection it will continue to be a goal to get the entirety of (including thirdworld) the globe's population to participate in the reduction of infections, so that mutation is not as likely to occur. Lastly, break-through infections occur, and this is not surprising or new news. In addition, the percent efficacy naturally allows for the possibility of this "fully" vaccinated person to have been a breakthrough case. Context matters, and in this story, the person hasn't been boosted, meaning that if their first vaccine and second vaccine were received more than 6 months ago then their immune system protection likely was greatly compromised.

I say all this, because it is often the case that life-problems are very complex and takes great analysis of all relevant facts before understanding enough to make informed decisions that affect things which ultimately translate into public policy matters. I think you give great consideration to things before rendering your verdict, and have zero problem with you coming to differing conclusions that me or anybody else who may be at odds with your perspective, but wish that ALL people on both sides of the issue wouldn't engage in willful confirmation bias when they make a final decision on how to best combat this serious problem. God bless you and yours bro.
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Just to clarify, when I said lessens the severity, that encompassed hospitalizations & death too as those are the most severe cases.
I don't see herd immunity being achieved by mass vaccinations. I think a more reasonable plan would be:
1. let those who are considered high-risk choose to be vaccinated or not
2. everyone who has close contact with high-risk people take extra precautions (masks, distancing, etc.)
3. let those who are not high-risk (or don't care) take their chances on the severity and get the virus naturally.
Natural immunity seems to be much more robust than immunity from vaccines based on studies and anecdotal evidence. A large percentage of the population with natural immunity seems to be the best chance of squashing this (if that is even possible - sadly, it's probably here to stay like the flu).
 
ALAYMAN said:
Context matters, and in this story, the person hasn't been boosted, meaning that if their first vaccine and second vaccine were received more than 6 months ago then their immune system protection likely was greatly compromised.
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CNBC reported that this person was fully vaccinated within the last 6 months.
 
voicecrying said:
Just to clarify, when I said lessens the severity, that encompassed hospitalizations & death too as those are the most severe cases....
Natural immunity seems to be much more robust than immunity from vaccines based on studies and anecdotal evidence. A large percentage of the population with natural immunity seems to be the best chance of squashing this (if that is even possible - sadly, it's probably here to stay like the flu)....
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voicecrying said:
CNBC reported that this person was fully vaccinated within the last 6 months.
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I guess this is where the whole issue of credibility and authority has to be weighed. I don't subscribe to the notion that the vaccinated population is equally likely to spread the illness, and tend to believe those studies that bear out that vaccinated people are not as infectious. I do appreciate the correction to the recent strain patient having been vaccinated (and not in need of a boost) within the last 6 months, but would default that anecdotal evidence back to the breakthrough status that we know is possible. Regardless of all of that, the libertarian leaning fella in my skin does agree with you that mandates are not the way to handle this, but truth (scientific and philosophical) should carry the day.
 
Giving you a credible platform goes against my better sense, but here goes anyway. Why in the world would you say that the variants are created by those who've been vaccinated?
The answer has either been posted on this thread or easily found online. A short answer is that 1. You never vaccinate during a pandemic 2. Doing so makes the virus mutate to survive. Hence you create variants and since the vaccinated shed the virus, hence it spreads.
 
Twisted said:
Giving you a credible platform goes against my better sense, but here goes anyway. Why in the world would you say that the variants are created by those who've been vaccinated?
The answer has either been posted on this thread or easily found online. A short answer is that 1. You never vaccinate during a pandemic 2. Doing so makes the virus mutate to survive. Hence you create variants and since the vaccinated shed the virus, hence it spreads.
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If you are going to carry the torch for the anti-vaxxer crowd you should at least be sure to keep some pamphlets available to hand out to prospective converts. :cool:

1. You making a claim is not the same as supporting it with credible evidence.
2. https://www.newscientist.com/articl...e-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

I could have listed scores more, but for those curious onlookers who want to actually do their own research, just google "vaccines cause mutations" then use basic critical thinking skills regarding biology and science as you sort through the myriad of links supporting the idea that variants don't come from the creation of vaccines.
 
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ALAYMAN said:
I don't subscribe to the notion that the vaccinated population is equally likely to spread the illness, and tend to believe those studies that bear out that vaccinated people are not as infectious.
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Are you aware of any studies regarding the likelihood of spreading that also include people with natural immunity? I think I've seen one. I'd like to see more. I would suspect that natural immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity as it is with resistance.
 
voicecrying said:
Are you aware of any studies regarding the likelihood of spreading that also include people with natural immunity? I think I've seen one. I'd like to see more. I would suspect that natural immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity as it is with resistance.
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No, I haven't seen anything that distinguishes those two groups, though admittedly I am only casually interested in doing much research on this subject (kinda burnt out ya know), but that would be an interesting bifurcation. About 6 months ago I did look into the notion of differentiating the effectiveness of the jab vs natural immunity and there were conflicting data at that time, but there was enough to convince me that if somebody didn't have a compromised immunity and was young and otherwise healthy that natural immunity was as strong or more likely better than the vaccine.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I could have listed scores more, but for those curious onlookers who want to actually do their own research, just google "vaccines cause mutations" then use basic critical thinking skills regarding biology and science as you sort through the myriad of links supporting the idea that variants don't come from the creation of vaccines.
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Yeah, but it's not just conspiracy theorists reporting this. Bloggers, talk show hosts, and naturopaths agree. Confirmation!
 
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