The Decline of the IFB Movement?

[brianb]

As long as a church calls itself independent fundamental baptist it is an independent fundamental baptist (IFB church). Those three words must uttered in church by a pastor on a regular basis (at least a few times a year). It must also be on the church web site if there is one. They must only support missionaries who are planting independent fundamental baptist churches. If an IFB church member notices that the words independent fundamental baptist have not been used in a year or maybe that the church web site has removed those words chances are it is no longer an IFB church and is now merely an unaffiliated Baptist Church.

And why in the world would you say this:

"They must only support missionaries who are planting independent fundamental baptist churches."

Because that's what "IFB" churches do. Name an IFB church that supports Southern Baptists or Missionary Baptist missionaries for example. If you can show me one than I'll retract what I say.
Much of what I say is just tongue-in-cheek. 

 

[bruinboy]

Who are today's IFB leaders who have influence outside of a sphere of 75-100 churches?
And are there any IFB mega churches less than 20 years old?

In fact, how many IFB mega churches exist today...period?

A mega church is over 2000 in attendance, at least that's how I think it's defined.
I ask just as a gage of the growth of the movement, not to say thats a sign of success.

I believe our movement is in decline and has been for some time.
What do you think?
Why or why not?


I also posted this on the other forum, in the interest of full disclosure.

Colonial Baptist in Cary, NC has about 4000 in attendance. It started about 25 years ago and the founding pastor is still the pastor.

Colonial is the furthest thing from a traditional IFB church.  It is more like a Thomas Road or a Saddleback.

.

Anything that disqualifies it from being IFB? Maybe it is how IFB's should be.

Not official disqualification.  However, they are not legalistic, have a coffee shop, use overheads, no dress code, no KJVO, no buses, good music, etc.  Hard to believe a church like that would want to drag the anchor of IFB.  I am sure there are a very small percentage of IFB churches have shed the slavery of legalism, etc. Just don't understand why they would want to be associated with all the nuts of x-dumb.

.

 

[Bob H]

Anyways, why is smaller worse?

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

IFB churches are independent. There are a few things to keep in mind. They are all different. The name "IFB" has taken a hit in the past few years driving some churches to drop the independent baptist name. There are some IFB churches that give "IFB" a bad name. There are though some that are really good. The issue I have with some IFB churches is that they have confused biblical truth with application.  Women wearing pants would be an example.

Just be careful not to broad brush everyone under the name IFB. There are some really good ones out there.

Your broad brushing point is well taken, and I do not mean to do so.

Remember, I am IFB!
However, I am not KJVO, never have been.
We use what some call 'contemporary' music in our services....in addition to screens...with drama and video occasionally.
I believe there are good ones, and I wouldn't go so far as to say that all  of those who disagree on these things are 'bad'.

However, the IFB movement as an entity is isolated and has lost influence on our culture....a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel. I would like for our movement to realize this and make some changes in our methodology and philosophy of ministry. you can do that without compromising Scripture!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Who are today's IFB leaders who have influence outside of a sphere of 75-100 churches?
And are there any IFB mega churches less than 20 years old?

In fact, how many IFB mega churches exist today...period?

A mega church is over 2000 in attendance, at least that's how I think it's defined.
I ask just as a gage of the growth of the movement, not to say thats a sign of success.

I believe our movement is in decline and has been for some time.
What do you think?
Why or why not?


I also posted this on the other forum, in the interest of full disclosure.

Colonial Baptist in Cary, NC has about 4000 in attendance. It started about 25 years ago and the founding pastor is still the pastor.

Colonial is the furthest thing from a traditional IFB church.  It is more like a Thomas Road or a Saddleback.

.

Anything that disqualifies it from being IFB? Maybe it is how IFB's should be.

Not official disqualification.  However, they are not legalistic, have a coffee shop, use overheads, no dress code, no KJVO, no buses, good music, etc.  Hard to believe a church like that would want to drag the anchor of IFB.  I am sure there are a very small percentage of IFB churches have shed the slavery of legalism, etc. Just don't understand why they would want to be associated with all the nuts of x-dumb.

I/we are like Colonial in philosophy of ministry and methodology.
In fact, we may be a little more contemporary than they are, especially in our third worship service.
Truthfully, we are surrounded by 'legalistic', KJVO IFB churches.
I have no problem with them, but many of them seem to have a problem with us.....which is an example of why they are known for what they're against more than what 'they are'.

The IFB label hasn't been a hindrance to us at all.
However, because of the fact that i'm the only senior pastor our church has ever had...and i'm over 60...I'm concerned as to what our church will do when God moves me away from this ministry.
We have nothing in common with most IFBs and our church would never have a Pastor who made KJVO, pants on women or music style a badge of honor or fellowship.
For that reason, we (our leadership) are prayerfully investigating the SBC.

I took your pix out because, frankly those guys are caricatures of what is wrong with the movement, IMHO!

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Anyways, why is smaller worse?

I think you miss the point, a little.
The IFb have historically been known for the size of their churches and the number who attend their conferences.
In the 70's Dr Hyles liked to say..."The largest church in the state of _____ is an IFB church..."

The point is regardless of small or large churches, what is the state of the movement?

BTW - the IFBs are still somewhat obsessed with what are you running and what are your offerings...IMHO.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

I believe our movement is in decline and has been for some time.
What do you think?
Why or why not?

I do believe that that IFB church movement is getting stronger. Though the days of the hooping and hollering about padded attendance figures and Big Days are not over, there are many solid Christ-centered IFB churches that are doing a good work. It is sad that the loons of any group, many times, overshadow the solid faithful day-to-day service of the Christ honoring churches.

The truly Independent do not strictly attach themselves to other churches, fellowships, conferences, and colleges. I view some in the IFB movement as maturing, focusing more on Christ and His work, rather than worrying about back-patting of each other,  apparently in an effort to gain some sort of great earthly recognition or reputation.

If all of us IFBs were as balanced and level headed as your post, we'd be in good shape! 

 

[Fresh Air]

Anyways, why is smaller worse?

I don't think the IFB movement is dying, but this is a point that bears emphasizing. God's purpose for Noah, Jeremiah, and even Jesus included ministries others would think of as failed. John the Baptist initially had a huge following, and when it began to decline as people shifted to Jesus the Pharisees tried to use that decline to drive a wedge between him and Jesus. I love his response: 'He must increase but I must decrease.' Sometimes God wants a ministry to get smaller...

 

[Fresh Air]

.a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel.

...where's that in the Bible?

 

[bruinboy]

.a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel.

...where's that in the Bible?

Just after the verse that teaches "Three to thrive" and KJVO.    ;D

 

[OZZY]

Who are today's IFB leaders who have influence outside of a sphere of 75-100 churches?
And are there any IFB mega churches less than 20 years old?

In fact, how many IFB mega churches exist today...period?

A mega church is over 2000 in attendance, at least that's how I think it's defined.
I ask jXust as a gage of the growth of the movement, not to say thats a sign of success.

I believe our movement is in decline and has been for some time.
What do you think?
Why or why not?


I also posted this on the other forum, in the interest of full disclosure.

I believe we started to decline when we started to focus on building MEGA Churches and not building solid churches. Remember it's all about the numbers!

 

[Bob H]

Anyways, why is smaller worse?

I think you miss the point, a little.

You seem to be right but I'm trying my good brother. 

The point is regardless of small or large churches, what is the state of the movement?

Though I have left new evangelicalism and now a fundamentalist I am not, never was, and most likely will never be a baptist. So when you say "decline" are you more referring to the "B" part or the "F" part?

 

[Bob H]

Sometimes God wants a ministry to get smaller...

Gideon says amen! 

 

[rsc2a]

.a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel.

...where's that in the Bible?

Everywhere.

 

[Bro Blue]

Perhaps one of the reasons that it may seem to be in a decline is that people within the movement are starting to open up their God given eyeballs!(sorry, had to use that phrase, have fallen in love with )
I'm in an ifb church and have really been questioning a lot of things. It has come close to giving me a rotten attitude about some things. I have found myself to be a lot more sceptical of preaching and teaching. Not a good frame of mind to be in I know, but I'm working through it.

 

[Fresh Air]

.a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel.

...where's that in the Bible?

Everywhere.

...no, that's not a nebulous answer, no, of course not...

 

[bruinboy]

Who are today's IFB leaders who have influence outside of a sphere of 75-100 churches?
And are there any IFB mega churches less than 20 years old?

In fact, how many IFB mega churches exist today...period?

A mega church is over 2000 in attendance, at least that's how I think it's defined.
I ask jXust as a gage of the growth of the movement, not to say thats a sign of success.

I believe our movement is in decline and has been for some time.
What do you think?
Why or why not?


I also posted this on the other forum, in the interest of full disclosure.

I believe we started to decline when we started to focus on building MEGA Churches and not building solid churches. Remember it's all about the numbers!

Building MEGA churches had nothing to do with the decline. Solid churches is probably another thing.  I would argue that the mega churches of the heyday of IFB were pretty solid churches at the time.  What happened to IFB was the focus changed from trying to reach others to the heresy of KJVO, man made staaaaaaaaaaaaandards, and legalism. Don't mean this bad, but the average person with a  spiritual IQ in excess of double digits sees right through the KJVO nonsense and legalism.  Couple that with the nuts leading what is left of the IFB and who wants to be associated with that crowd? 
Most of the people/ministries who left because of this man made up garbage, went to the SBC.  If the SBC were to start focusing on this stuff, it will die/become irrelevant as well. 

.

 

[4everfsu]

Say it is not so TH, RLS would never stand for it, decline of IFB movement. BTW TH also goes well with RLS's TH.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

.a culture that we are called to reach with the Gospel.

...where's that in the Bible?

Everywhere.

...no, that's not a nebulous answer, no, of course not...

I'm not sure what you mean here Tom.
IF we are to do our part to fulfill the Great Commission, we must spread the Gospel in this generation, this culture.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Say it is not so TH, RLS would never stand for it, decline of IFB movement. BTW TH also goes well with RLS's TH.

Temple Heights is a perfect example of my point, as you and RLS well know!  ;D

Good to see you here old buddy!